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I couldn't get my charge to stop at an Ecotricity rapid today. Pressed the stop charging button then presented my Ecotricity card but it just rejected it and went back to the charging screen. I retried several times. The screen said it needed the same card that started the session. After a while I began to wonder if it was possible I had accidentally started the charge with my CYC card. Out of interest I tried to end the session with the CYC card and, hey presto, it stopped 1st time!
Has anyone found that you can use a CYC card on an Ecotricity charger?
If so, has anyone tried an Ecotricity card on a CYC charger?
 

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Yes, I think all the Ecotricity rapids will charge with CYC cards. I made the same mistake you did @Grum and confused myself trying to stop the charge until I realised what I'd done.

I think an Ecotricity card will start a free CYC rapid but not one where there is fee involved, which would make sense.
 

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Has anyone found that you can use a CYC card on an Ecotricity charger?
Yep, I've done that too.
Last week in the dark and rain I went to start a charge on a CYC rapid I often use and got the message 'Not an authorised user' tried again got same message then CP went offline :eek: !!
It was at that point I realised my Polar card was behind the CYC card. :rolleyes: Doh
Reset CP and charged fine :D
 
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Made the opposite mistake of trying to start the CYC rapid at Worcester County Hall with my Ecotricity card - Easily done as all the DBT posts look similar. Could do with a 'Wrong card' sign flashing up on the screen when an invalid card is presented.
 

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Best to have one RFID card for the entire of the EU.

Maybe have one company to hold all the details and reimburse charger owners once the charge is complete.

Would anyone here be interested in lending weight, expertise, or other assistance to this?
 

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I started a PodPoint with an Ecotricity once (now most PodPoints are RFID free)

So it's clear - it's a mess!

Some networks are checking the card is on their system (Chargemaster/polar)
Some networks will work with several card providers (Ecotricity/CYC)
Some networks just need to see a card - any card! (PodPoint)

(It's possible that the PodPoint just didn't have any comes connection, and so it defaulted to on, after checking the card failed - this is a very sensible fall back position!)
 

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Best to have one RFID card for the entire of the EU.
Sorry but I cannot disagree more...

Best not to have RFID cards AT ALL! They are just not necessary in any way that I can possibly imagine.

However, a central clearing company for all charging in the UK might work if it could be made profitable but it would require the cooperation of all the charge networks and cooperation is not something they are known for.
 

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Ecotricity currently officially accept CYC, Source London, Source East and old Plugged in Midlands cards, as well as their own cards. This should work on all their charge points. They used to unofficially support eCar NI cards, but that no longer works.

Source London officially accepts Source East Cards, but in practice, it doesn't always work, and is no longer documented on the Source London web site.
Source East officially accepts Source London Cards, but in practice, it doesn't always work.

And now for the manufacturer quirks:
Some old Pod-Points accept any RFID card, though this is barely ever documented officially. I found this accidentally when I used my work building pass to start a charge.
The factory default setting of Elektromotive charge points seems to accept Charge your Car cards, which is often overridden when they get connected up to a non-Charge-your-Car scheme.
Chargemaster-manufactured charge points almost always accept Chargemaster-issued cards (Chargemaster, Polar Plus, Polar Instant, BMW ChargeNow), regardless of the scheme they're supposed to do, and regardless of whether the charge point owner is aware of the fact. In some cases, it costs considerably more to use the Chargemaster-issued cards on the charge point than a charging scheme issued card.

Some new Pod-Points have been installed where they should be accepting Source London, or Charge your Car cards, but the new posts cannot possibly work in that way, since they don't have RFID readers.
 

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Any chance you could write a little app for that, so when faced with a new charger and a fistful of RFID cards we can just dial in and it tells what we need to use? :rolleyes:
 

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I'd rather sit down and set up the mythical central clearing house that would be accepted by more than one charge network. Yes, I know there is already one that exists, as used in NL/BE/DE/AT, but it's been said by some of the UK charging networks that it costs too much to join. I reckon it could be done really much cheaper.

When roaming onto paid-charging networks, you'd probably be charged the default non-subscription rate, so in the hypothetical case of a CYC card being used on a Chargemaster-operated point, they should be charged at the Polar Instant rate; it doesn't stop Chargemaster continuing to offer their subscription offering, but a Chargemaster customer with such a subscription shouldn't expect the same charging fees when using charge points other networks, unless Chargemaster decide to absorb the price differences. There should be no spurious markups just because the card happens to be issued by someone else, and in fact, it could be beneficial for the charge network provider since they won't have to pay per-transaction charges for actually collecting the payments from banks / payment cards; they wouldn't even have to issue their own cards or have a customer base of their own.
 

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The central clearing house concept mentioned above by a couple of posters is good; something like MasterCard & Visa have done. It works in all the shops, including abroad..

In London the public transport Oyster readers now accept them too, and I believe Apple Pay / Google Pay allows you to use your smartphone RFID.
 

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When you plug your car in, it does comms between the charger and car before the charge starts. Surely these communication include a unique identifier for the car -
Maybe a MAC address?

If that were the case you could join or pay a subscription for your car, then when at the charger, just plug it in, and as part of the handshake, it would check your unique id against the list of known subscribers, and only start the charge if it's known (and for a charger which requires payment, check whether you have valid payment details registered).

This list could be cached locally, so should the comms between the provider and their charger go down, users could still be validated.
 

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Until the other more advanced solutions are available, the MasterCard / Visa route could be taken..
There are some Pay at Pump petrol stations that also use this technology. Most people already have a card, either debit or credit that work with chip/pin, magnetic strip, or RFID.
 

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When you plug your car in, it does comms between the charger and car before the charge starts. Surely these communication include a unique identifier for the car -
Maybe a MAC address?

If that were the case you could join or pay a subscription for your car, then when at the charger, just plug it in, and as part of the handshake, it would check your unique id against the list of known subscribers, and only start the charge if it's known (and for a charger which requires payment, check whether you have valid payment details registered).

This list could be cached locally, so should the comms between the provider and their charger go down, users could still be validated.
Not for AC charging, but Chademo and CCS may probably leak the VIN to the charger, but not in a way that isn't possible to fake. Tesla's Supercharger protocol apparently uses cryptographic signatures to do this properly, but they control the charger, and they control the car.

AC (type 2 / J1172) charging is very low-tech, you don't even need a microcontroller to implement that protocol.

Chargemaster have apparently fitted their new DC rapid chargers with ANPR cameras.
 

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VIN alone probably not enough, ANPR alone probably not enough, but combined (which is what the bridge toll tags do I believe) should be pretty secure.

Apply pay or similar is a lovely idea but this is where we came in - what do you do in an underground car park or isolated location with no mobile signal? No better than a charge app.

Unique vehicle ID and an offline registration system has to be the way to go, or universal credit/debit card readers at all charging stations if you must.
 

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I'd rather sit down and set up the mythical central clearing house that would be accepted by more than one charge network. Yes, I know there is already one that exists, as used in NL/BE/DE/AT, but it's been said by some of the UK charging networks that it costs too much to join. I reckon it could be done really much cheaper.

When roaming onto paid-charging networks, you'd probably be charged the default non-subscription rate, so in the hypothetical case of a CYC card being used on a Chargemaster-operated point, they should be charged at the Polar Instant rate; it doesn't stop Chargemaster continuing to offer their subscription offering, but a Chargemaster customer with such a subscription shouldn't expect the same charging fees when using charge points other networks, unless Chargemaster decide to absorb the price differences. There should be no spurious markups just because the card happens to be issued by someone else, and in fact, it could be beneficial for the charge network provider since they won't have to pay per-transaction charges for actually collecting the payments from banks / payment cards; they wouldn't even have to issue their own cards or have a customer base of their own.
I've just ordered a dutch card on this basis. The networks in the UK generally want to be able to offer their subscription customers european coverage. By getting a subscription free card from a european network I hope to be able to use the uk chargers on the very infrequent occasions that I might want to charge away from home & ecotricity.
 
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