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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
apologies, i'm certain this must have been discussed before, but my Google skills just can't uncover it!
I was wondering whether you can buy a home charger that is capable of delivering either fast or slow charge depending on your choice?
I am having to install 3 phase power to my home so I could get a rapid charger using this, but i wouldn't want to exclusively rapid charge the car(as i believe this wears the battery out faster). i hoped to find one that can use 7kwh when selected but pump 22 or even 50 if required.

Any info greatly appreciated!
 

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50kW rapids can come with AC charging as well. Its possible the smaller 20kW DC ones do as well. I would expect though it would be cheaper to fit a 20kW rapid and an 11kW AC fast charger, some cars come with 3phase charging at 11kW.
You need to have a word with an expert, Try @Mike Schooling , he does V2G so has expertise in DC chargers and may even have a solution.

DC chargers (Rapids) are not cheap though!!
 

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First what car do you have? - this will determine the possible AC charge rates, typically 7kW for single-phase, 11kW or sometimes 22kW for 3-phase.
Secondly consider your usage pattern to see how fast you actually need to charge.
Bear in mind that a 50kW rapid will cost over £20K.
An 11 or 22kW AC charger, £1-2K
 

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50kW on 3 phase is also over 70Amps per phase - will you have that much spare capacity on each phase?
 

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You won’t get a charger that will allow you to output 7, 11 or 22kW AC as well as 50kW DC. There is 43kW AC but as far as I know only some models of the previous gen Zoe would accept this.
 

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... and such a charger would need to access the Chademo or CCS connector, so could be a bad investment. The current V2G units use Chademo, but the industry is now moving towards CCS, in Europe at least.
 

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apologies, i'm certain this must have been discussed before, but my Google skills just can't uncover it!
I was wondering whether you can buy a home charger that is capable of delivering either fast or slow charge depending on your choice?
I am having to install 3 phase power to my home so I could get a rapid charger using this, but i wouldn't want to exclusively rapid charge the car(as i believe this wears the battery out faster). i hoped to find one that can use 7kwh when selected but pump 22 or even 50 if required.

Any info greatly appreciated!
Probably worth winding back to some basics....

For AC charging this is highly car dependent. Typically most cars are capable of at least 7kW (single phase).
Some cars, like Zoe's, Tesla's and some other cars can use between 11kW (3.3kW x 3) and 22kW (7kW x 3).
Note the speed/3-phase is dependent on what the car is capable of.
Charging at any of these AC speeds will not affect the battery life appreciably.
These chargers are relatively inexpensive, even the 3-phase ones as it's the car doing the heavy lifting.

For DC charging (proper rapids) then it's silly money (tens of thousands) to get one of these installed.
Most cars are now CCS.
It's highly unlikely you actually want this.

If you let us know what car you're getting we can tell you what's possible.
 
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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
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apologies, i'm certain this must have been discussed before, but my Google skills just can't uncover it!
I was wondering whether you can buy a home charger that is capable of delivering either fast or slow charge depending on your choice?
I am having to install 3 phase power to my home so I could get a rapid charger using this, but i wouldn't want to exclusively rapid charge the car(as i believe this wears the battery out faster). i hoped to find one that can use 7kwh when selected but pump 22 or even 50 if required.

Any info greatly appreciated!
I suspect your terminology is a bit off. You won’t be considering a rapid charger for a domestic installation. Home ‘chargers’ are actually not chargers but electric vehicle supply equipment or EVSE. This supplies mains power to the charger built into the car.

As others have said most cars have a 7kw onboard charger which is single phase. If your car has a three phase charger that will probably be 11kw.

If you have a three phase supply you could consider getting a three phase EVSE installed, these usually cost a little bit more. If your car is only single phase 7kw a three phase EVSE would work with this. It’s all down to whether you want that future capability.

to your original question, many EVSE units allow you to reduce the charge current. Usually this is used to load balance the supply, so if you have a heat pump or a second car on charge, the EVSE can instruct the car to draw less power in order to stay within a safe limit for your supply. This is usually automated using ct clamps. It’s usually something that can be set in the associated control app and in some cases restricting the charge rate, say to 16A, is required if the domestic supply is shared between properties.
You may also be able to set this on the car. The current Kia models have reduced charge current options in the menu

Charging at 7/11kw is referred to as “fast” and isn’t considered to be detrimental to the battery unlike regular rapid charging which may cause degradation more quickly. How much of a problem this is with the latest battery thermal management is up for debate.
 

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Perhaps worth pointing out that an actual "Rapid Charging" unit would probably cost more than the car so even if you had a power supply robust enough to service it it probably wouldn't be worth considering unless you had several EVs each needing to do 500+ miles per day. That might make sense for e.g. a taxi company but less likely in a normal household.
 

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Perhaps worth pointing out that an actual "Rapid Charging" unit would probably cost more than the car
not necessarily.... but still not a sensible domestic solution.
 

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not necessarily.... but still not a sensible domestic solution.
I don't need one but this seems a useful technical and price reference point for such units...
 

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I charge my 64KwHr EV at work from a three phase Zappi that will give 11Kw. Normally, as the car is parked up for the working day it will "fully charge" in around 6 hours. But I often just need about 50% (say 30 to 80%) and can set the Zappi (via the App) to "Eco" and the charge is controlled to around 4Kw which may or may not be better for the battery, but does mean that I can leave the car plugged in until it is time to leave work and preheat using the mains power.
 

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not necessarily.... but still not a sensible domestic solution.
To save everyone else having to follow link to find out price it seems to be £7k from that link or £4k (but possibly with import taxes added ?) from Alibaba. Agree that's not quite as much as a new EV though it is close to that of a secondhand one. It's also only a 30kW unit rather that the 50+ one thinks of on commercial charging sites.
 

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I am having to install 3 phase power to my home so I could get a rapid charger using this, but i wouldn't want to exclusively rapid charge the car
Really? How much have you been quoted to install a "rapid charger"? Or do you mean 22kW AC EVSE (aka Charging Point)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I feel humbled by the volume of quality replies, i can only apologise for not replying sooner (life has a knack of getting in the way!). I really want to understand all this, i had no idea there was so much to learn.

To try and cover the context of this situation -
  1. we have a Kia e-niro 4 (not 4+).
  2. We stay in Fife, and Fife have just instigated charges for their previously free charging stations. Many people locally now have to consider home charging points, including us.
  3. I'm switching to the Octopus tarrif with guaranteed 4 hours charge time, so ideally wanted a charger capable of providing enough power in that timeframe when required (although quite prepared to micromanage slower charging if required, perhaps with OHME smart lead etc).
I had thought to let friends use the charger while we all adjust to the new reality in Fife, but there are a mix of cars (old leafs, tesla, etc) so this might just over-complicate the matter.

Cost-wise I would say that anything beyond a few thousand is beyond our means (so 50kW DC is clearly a pipe dream).
 

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I feel humbled by the volume of quality replies, i can only apologise for not replying sooner (life has a knack of getting in the way!). I really want to understand all this, i had no idea there was so much to learn.

To try and cover the context of this situation -
  1. we have a Kia e-niro 4 (not 4+).
  2. We stay in Fife, and Fife have just instigated charges for their previously free charging stations. Many people locally now have to consider home charging points, including us.
  3. I'm switching to the Octopus tarrif with guaranteed 4 hours charge time, so ideally wanted a charger capable of providing enough power in that timeframe when required (although quite prepared to micromanage slower charging if required, perhaps with OHME smart lead etc).
I had thought to let friends use the charger while we all adjust to the new reality in Fife, but there are a mix of cars (old leafs, tesla, etc) so this might just over-complicate the matter.

Cost-wise I would say that anything beyond a few thousand is beyond our means (so 50kW DC is clearly a pipe dream).
Hi Shetland, yes there can be a lot to learn. I spent a couple of years learning about EVs before actually getting one and still got caught out by some things around charging.

The e-Niro 4 has a 7kw onboard charger. With this car there’s no benefit to installing anything other than a standard 32A EVSE.

You wouldn’t benefit from a three phase charge point (11kw) but if there’s a possibility you might change the car in the next couple of years, with three phase being an option on many cars now, including the Niro 4+, you might at least want to make sure your install could be upgraded to three phase, even if you don’t get one now.

the benefit of three phase at home is questionable. It does increase charge rate from 7 to 11kw so if you do high miles and frequently charge up from near empty, being able to do so faster will mean you can make best use of agile low rates. Otherwise it isn’t worth the extra outlay for the equipment imho.
 
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