[richardglover]

Received an E-UP brochure in the post and have watched Transport Evolved’s first drive in one. It’s neat enough car, not exciting like the i3 or as ground breaking as the Leaf but reassuringly expensive.

Which has me wondering as you can place two seemingly identical ups side by side, lets say one at £14k (top of the range) and the other at £25k (electric before PICG) can it really be costing £9k more to produce the car?

 

[Paul]

Received an E-UP brochure in the post and have watched Transport Evolved’s first drive in one. It’s neat enough car, not exciting like the i3 or as ground breaking as the Leaf but reassuringly expensive.

Which has me wondering as you can place two seemingly identical ups side by side, lets say one at £14k (top of the range) and the other at £25k (electric before PICG) can it really be costing £9k more to produce the car?

If not for economies of scale playing their part I would say probably no. But I have NOTHING to back that up, it just seems an excessive markup for taking out all the complexities of ICE and sticking in a motor and battery*.



*yes, I know, not that simple...

 

[Andy]

I really like the UP, my mum's got one and it's quite good fun to drive so I'd love to have a go in this electric version.

The variable regen strength seems to be a good idea that's implemented well and I think it's also impressive how they've managed to package the battery without taking any interior space away from the standard car.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/electric-technology/electric-vehicle-battery

I hope it sells well but yeah, that price differential to the ICE version is going to be hard to justify.

 

[brian orr]

When availability is low - prices are always set high. Gone are the days when Trade Sales and Car Giant picked up surplus production - its never going to happen with EVs!
In the US they talk about 'compliance' cars - I rather think the availability of the i3 and the e-Up are just that. They are there to demonstrate that both companies are in the EV market; however, at inflated prices they are no threat to other models. "You can have an EV, if you want - 'sucker'!

 

[richardglover]

It’s not £9k, it’s £11k the difference between the top range petrol UP at £14k and the E-UP at £25k. I had wanted to be as fair as possible and then made a silly mistake with the maths but it does bring to mind when I first spoke to a Nissan salesman in 2011 about the price of a Leaf, he said the batteries alone were £11k.
Is £11k a mythical figure for batteries?

 

[richardglover]

When I go into a supermarket there are always items on offer “buy one get one free” only the price is twice seemingly what it was only last week. Looking at the UP price list the E-UP is almost 3 times the Take up model and twice the Groove up model.

I thought VW plan to be the ev market leaders?? This really is a mistake. They should have made a 3 door E-UP (it looks so much better) and priced it at £13k otr. And they would sell like hot cakes.

I am going to wait until there is a special offer, like buy the E-UP get the Take UP free.

 

[Paul]

Is £11k a mythical figure for batteries?

Yes. The insurance value on the FLEX is MUCH less than that.

 

[EricM]

It’s not £9k, it’s £11k the difference between the top range petrol UP at £14k and the E-UP at £25k. I had wanted to be as fair as possible and then made a silly mistake with the maths but it does bring to mind when I first spoke to a Nissan salesman in 2011 about the price of a Leaf, he said the batteries alone were £11k.
Is £11k a mythical figure for batteries?

It's not 'mythical' - I recently enquired and the current list price of an e-Up! battery pack is around £12k + vat & + fitting charge. OTOH, I strongly suspect that equivalent Li batteries could be found for a lot less elsewhere.

But the £25k 'unsubsidised' price of an e-Up! is also a bit of a swindle. No doubt VW worked out what price the market would bear then added on the Government subsidy. Result : there will still be enough demand for the product but VW get to make £5k extra for each one.

 

[MoonCat]

Well they've messed it up as the market isn't bearing it. The e-Up is a cracking car, yet sales are very low. It's too expensive and dealers too disinterested.

Maybe this is all going to change after the diesel trust issues/scandal.

VOLKSWAGEN E-UP - How Many Left?

2013: 30 e-Ups sold
2014: 87
2015: 17 to June.

Those figures are shocking. The e-Up should be selling like hot cakes.

 

[BlackLeaf]

I seem to recall a chap who had one saying that in addition to the price problem it was range-limited as the battery was on the small side - 18.7kWh total I believe (remember the i3 is "usable")

Also being "cursed" with CCS means that you have short legs and a low(er) chance of an enroute recharge.

It'd be a dedicated VW buyer who didn't walk over to the Renault showroom for the similar-size Zoe with much longer range and less money. Or even the Nissan garage for a much larger car with longer range and reliable charging for the same price as the e-Up.

 

[EricM]

Well they've messed it up as the market isn't bearing it. The e-Up is a cracking car, yet sales are very low. It's too expensive and dealers too disinterested.

Maybe this is all going to change after the diesel trust issues/scandal.

I actually said "VW worked out what price the market would bear"; I don't think I said they'd got their sums right Maybe others worked out what was happening to the subsidy as well ?

But has anyone ever trusted VW (or any other car company for that matter) ? For years they've (all) been reporting 'urban cycle fuel consumption figures' and telling customers that's what they might expect to get on their own cars, but neglecting to explain that figs are obtained on a rolling road with the manufacturers' own 'estimates' of what effect wind resistance, hills, corners etc. . . might have.

The VW diesel scandal probably started out as a service to customers in that underestimating CO2 emissions would drop vehicles a tax group (or several) and give better fuel consumption than really getting those emission levels would allow. Owners of 'repaired' vehicles will be getting nasty shocks after the recalls !

 

[Tim Ostler]

Owners of 'repaired' vehicles will be getting nasty shocks after the recalls !

At least in the UK the Government has said owners who have been misled will be let off any tax rises.

 

[MoonCat]

But the owners will have a car that gets much less to the gallon. Who pays for the extra fuel? And the Government will get extra diesel tax duty.

 

[EricM]

Governments are about as trustworthy as carmakers !.

One Government cannot bind its successors to any particular policy and who's to say that a future one won't turn around and say that the exemption was unfair.

 

[BlackLeaf]

There's a reasonably well held tenet in British law (*) that you can't apply new laws retrospectively and that is probably what has driven the government's position. Along with straight economics that if they did re-band all the VWs the owners would have a case to claim against VW. And if the government billed VW directly it would impact on ... um ... not sure actually ...

But the emissions cheat was NOX not CO2 anyway.


(*) HMRC ignore this a little too often

 

[MoonCat]

But if the car complied with NOx then it would have done less to the gallon and thus fallen into a higher banding.

 

[BlackLeaf]

Done less to the gallon probably - thanks to the rich cycle to burn off the NOx. But I'd have to go back and read through all the papers to see if there would have been more CO2 or whether the NOx burn reacts the CO2 out.

 

[Jasmin]

But the £25k 'unsubsidised' price of an e-Up! is also a bit of a swindle. No doubt VW worked out what price the market would bear then added on the Government subsidy. Result : there will still be enough demand for the product but VW get to make £5k extra for each one.

Not just VW. I am pretty convinced this is what all manufacturers are doing. Virtually the manufacturers give their headline EV prices including the grant. They are effectively just pocketing £5k a throw for sh*ts and giggles. This is why I think when the current incentives expire, there should be a replacement incentive, but it should be structured differently to stimulate downward price competition.

For example:
< £15k - £5k rebate
15-30k - £4k rebate
30-45k - £3k rebate
>45k - no rebate


But I disgress, VW are taking the p*ss with VW E-up pricing. I love the car, but £20k for a car with 18kw/h is just not going to cut it. If they offered the existing drivetrain with a basic cabin spec for £15k after grant, and then the posh-trim version with a 24kw/h-ish battery at the current price, then that would be very desirable line-up, and I would be sorely tempted

VOLKSWAGEN E-UP - How Many Left?

2013: 30 e-Ups sold
2014: 87
2015: 17 to June.

Ouch.

I seem to recall a chap who had one saying that in addition to the price problem it was range-limited as the battery was on the small side - 18.7kWh total I believe (remember the i3 is "usable")

Also being "cursed" with CCS means that you have short legs and a low(er) chance of an enroute recharge.

Yep. 18kw/h isn't as bad as it would sound, as the motor and car itself are bother smaller than the Leaf, but I've read elsewhere the range is decidedly modest, which in a world of 30kw/h Leafs, just doesn't cut it for most people. I'd love to hear drivers real-world experiences though, as I am still considering one if/when prices get more realistic, as I prefer the smaller body and more conventional cabin. Not sure CCS is a curse though, it's an elegant system, and is rolling out pretty well.

 

[Magnamundian]

Deals can be had, for some reason VW advertise the car as expensive as possible but find a dealer who needs to shift their stock and you can buy for 14k... I did!

 

[Jasmin]

Deals can be had, for some reason VW advertise the car as expensive as possible but find a dealer who needs to shift their stock and you can buy for 14k... I did!

Nice catch That's a discount and then some! Was that factory new, or ex-demo? What sort of real-world range are you getting on the motorway?