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Well 4% to 75% took 39 mins on a 50kW charger, which was perfect. I didn't record the whole session details but I was happy with the time taken since that 71% added represents a good range in any weather with the Ioniq, especially if you are doing a single top-up charge on the way to somewhere and starting with 100% and going to charge at your destination.

You can achieve over 350 miles driven for a single 40 minute stop, or if you stop twice due to bladder/child range even further, and that is almost 6 hours of driving plus the 40 mins stopped which seems about perfect. It would be nice if it charged faster, but I'm not impatient, and don't use the car for business.
 

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Yes, I think EVJourney has the whole ownership of an electric car summed up pretty well there. Different models suit different people, and bigger batteries or faster charging are often not the most important factor. I only have the first generation Ioniq, and it suits me just fine. I covet a Kona, and would like the extra range of an Ioniq 38kWh, and might even lower myself to accept a Tesla Model 3 :) Anyways, 350 miles with a 40 minute stop ...or two 40 minute stops in the 28kWh is perfectly acceptable, indeed desirable for comfort breaks etc. When the majority of charging is done at home for 9 out of 10 journeys, it's hardly an issue. You pays your money...you makes your choice:cool:
 

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Even in ideal conditions on a 50kw charger there is a fair bit of difference in the charge rate at higher SOCs; look at the gap between yellow and green:



The new ioniq starts dropping at ~52% (19kwh), whereas the old one keeps going until ~78% (24kwh, if that 30.5kwh capacity is right, 21kwh if using 28kwh total (which is it? That's the first time I've seen 30.5...))

The new one is definitely suboptimal in this regard, so if you want to do very long journeys in the shortest possible time it's not ideal. That isn't us, though; the longer initial range is more useful to us than a faster charging rate, and for the few journeys we need to charge more we're generally not in a rush so happy to make the compromise.
Fair point, but yes, that graph needs re-drawing for actual kWh (or range) rather than percentage, as you've mentioned 50% in the 38kwh is obviously more charge/range than 50% in the 28...the drop off at the end would look closer.
 

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Found it...

 

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Discussion Starter #25
I thought briefly about trying to make a graph like that so that's perfect, thank you! That suggests the difference is much less than I thought, which is fascinating.

I found this yesterday, about realistically how many chargers of different speeds there are likely to be;


...so all in all maybe the compromises of the new ioniq aren't so bad after all.

I hadn't seen that ioniq forum before, off I go down the rabbit hole... :)
 

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With a fixed max current available at any charger, the result is lower max charging power.
This is correct, but the Ioniq 38 also has its own 125A current limit for charging - hence why it does no better on a higher current charger (eg 150kW unit).

. I wonder why they even made a 350v battery in the first place given the effect on charging speed and that somewhere around 400v is practically industry standard as far as I know.
I do not know this for sure, but as an electronic engineer working in the periphery of the automotive industry I have some idea.

Semiconductor components, and other parts (eg capacitors) in the electronics have a maximum voltage rating. In higher voltage parts, there are a few discrete levels of components produced - 400-450V are common (as this is what you need for 240V mains), then they jump to 600-650V, and then jump to 900-1200V.

You always need some headroom over the maximum voltage of your system, to ensure reliability, especially when you're dealing with inductive loads (eg an electric motor). A "400V" car will typically use 600-650V components in the drive electronics - I know that Tesla use 650V SiC FETs in the model 3 motor for example.

I suspect that what Kia/Hyundai have done with the 38/39kWh battery and drivetrain is engineered it such that they can use cheaper 450V components in the drive and charger electronics, with a max battery voltage in the 350V region. This results in wider cost savings than simply the cells in the battery - cheaper motor inverter, cheaper on-board AC charger, cheaper on-board DC-DC, etc. For a vehicle where high performance is not a goal then this is a very sensible compromise.

The downside is, as observed in this thread, that the combination of lower voltage and 125A current limit gives poor "rapid" charge performance, although as also noted the real-world impact of this isn't as huge as many might fear. If the Ioniq 38 did not have the 125A limit (as indeed the 28 did not) then generally no one would be bothered by the lower voltage - presumably the 125A limit comes from another cost-saving somewhere in the charging system. Possibly they used thinner wiring/busbars that can give short bursts of 300A to the motor during driving, but would overheat if sustained >125A for many minutes during a charging session.

This type of ~325V drivetrain is extremely well-suited to city cars where rapid charge speed and motor performance is less relevant than lower purchase cost and efficiency.

Porsche have gone the other way, of course, with the 800V drivetrain in the Taycan, where motor performance and charging speed are very high priority. They certainly seem to have done a good job with that, but I suspect that in the longer term 800V-900V will remain the preserve of ultra-performance and commercial vehicles. I think it's pretty clear that ~400V drivetrains offer plenty of performance (Model S Performance?) and charging speed (625A on Supercharger V3) for the vast majority of everyday family cars, and will always offer a cost benefit over ~800V drivetrains.
 

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You won't get as much as 50kw in the old Ioniq either if you are using a 50kw rapid charger which, as I say, the majority of the UK rapid chargers at the moment. New would be getting 32, old maybe low 40's.

If you are in Norway with 150kw rapids everywhere and subzero temps 6 months of the year, fair enough, but that's not a UK situation.
It certainly depends which chargers you use, but I've averaged 50kW at Instavolt rapids a few times. 100 miles added in 25 minutes, or one latte. That wasn't at the car's max current, either.
Even in ideal conditions on a 50kw charger there is a fair bit of difference in the charge rate at higher SOCs; look at the gap between yellow and green:



The new ioniq starts dropping at ~52% (19kwh), whereas the old one keeps going until ~78% (24kwh, if that 30.5kwh capacity is right, 21kwh if using 28kwh total (which is it? That's the first time I've seen 30.5...))

The new one is definitely suboptimal in this regard, so if you want to do very long journeys in the shortest possible time it's not ideal. That isn't us, though; the longer initial range is more useful to us than a faster charging rate, and for the few journeys we need to charge more we're generally not in a rush so happy to make the compromise.
Ah, 30.5 vs 38.4, that's interesting- gross capacity being quoted a la Nissan. The "28" can charge hard to a high SOC because its really 30.5kWh. I had wondered what the net capacity increase of the facelift would be- this confirms my suspicions. Another negative of the 38 is then that they've removed any charge buffer, they're being harder on the pack. You might want to avoid charging to 100% routinely for pack longevity.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Ah, 30.5 vs 38.4, that's interesting- gross capacity being quoted a la Nissan.
I'm not quite sure that's the case... I've seen a gross capacity of 40.something kwh quoted in a few places, for example here, although admittedly nowhere definitive. Using those numbers the buffer is smaller on the new one - 6.6% vs 5.1% - but that doesn't sound enough to make much difference.

That said, we've set the charge limit on ours to 90% for AC and DC; it's not often we would need more, and this is a function the Zoe didn't have which makes doing so a lot easier.
 

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It certainly depends which chargers you use, but I've averaged 50kW at Instavolt rapids a few times. 100 miles added in 25 minutes, or one latte. That wasn't at the car's max current, either.

Ah, 30.5 vs 38.4, that's interesting- gross capacity being quoted a la Nissan. The "28" can charge hard to a high SOC because its really 30.5kWh. I had wondered what the net capacity increase of the facelift would be- this confirms my suspicions. Another negative of the 38 is then that they've removed any charge buffer, they're being harder on the pack. You might want to avoid charging to 100% routinely for pack longevity.
That makes zero sense. That implies the old one uses all of its "buffer". Which is not a good thing.

In reality both have buffers to manage and protect the battery.

Have a look at the comparison curve I posted in the Ioniq forum link.
 

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That makes zero sense. That implies the old one uses all of its "buffer". Which is not a good thing.

In reality both have buffers to manage and protect the battery.

Have a look at the comparison curve I posted in the Ioniq forum link.
Those curves suggest net 28 and 34kWh to my eyes.
Of course the net and gross capacity is a bit academic, what ranges are people really getting?
I can get 160 miles "to the turtle" from my 2016 model in summer use; so are people seeing max. 195 miles (as the 34kWh suggests), or 215 miles (as 38kWh suggests) from the 2020 model?
 

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Those curves suggest net 28 and 34kWh to my eyes.
Of course the net and gross capacity is a bit academic, what ranges are people really getting?
I can get 160 miles "to the turtle" from my 2016 model in summer use; so are people seeing max. 195 miles (as the 34kWh suggests), or 215 miles (as 38kWh suggests) from the 2020 model?
The intention of the graph isn't to show maximum charge. It is to show the rate comparison between the two - demonstrating the fact that they are very closely matched on a 50kw charger. The tail off on the 38 isn't necessarily 100% indicated.

The actual usable capacity was measured to be 37.5kwh on Bjorn Nyland's test.

17.25 mark:


Pack itself is likely to be around 40kwh.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
So today we went to the seaside, which given we live in Telford is a bit of a trek.

We also thought it would give us the chance to try a rapid charger, having not done so yet. We didn't need to, though; it did 175 miles, much of it on 70mph roads, and still had 10% when we got home.

Genuinely impressed - how on earth can it still get 5.1mpkwh at motorway speeds? The Zoe would have done it at 3.something and needed a (slow) charge.

The bigger boot was great for all our beach clobber too. It is full of sand now, though...
 

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Awesome! It shows the benefits of the aerodynamic compromises won against conventional style, let alone the SUVs from the same manufacturer.
Good luck with the sand!
 

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So today we went to the seaside, which given we live in Telford is a bit of a trek.

We also thought it would give us the chance to try a rapid charger, having not done so yet. We didn't need to, though; it did 175 miles, much of it on 70mph roads, and still had 10% when we got home.

Genuinely impressed - how on earth can it still get 5.1mpkwh at motorway speeds? The Zoe would have done it at 3.something and needed a (slow) charge.

The bigger boot was great for all our beach clobber too. It is full of sand now, though...
That’s genuinely impressive.

I’m kind of wishing I’d got an Ioniq instead of the e-Golf last year.

Very happy with the VW generally, but I have a regular trip now that’s 170 miles. I need a 20 min stop this time of year to complete it, sounds like I might be non-stop in the Ioniq?

What’s the winter range penalty? The same trip last winter in my e-Golf had me doing 1 x 12 minute and 1 x 25 minute stops for the same journey, leaving sufficient range margins. The last 50 mile leg is over high roads with no charging until the destination.
 

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That’s genuinely impressive.

I’m kind of wishing I’d got an Ioniq instead of the e-Golf last year.

Very happy with the VW generally, but I have a regular trip now that’s 170 miles. I need a 20 min stop this time of year to complete it, sounds like I might be non-stop in the Ioniq?

What’s the winter range penalty? The same trip last winter in my e-Golf had me doing 1 x 12 minute and 1 x 25 minute stops for the same journey, leaving sufficient range margins. The last 50 mile leg is over high roads with no charging until the destination.
We were getting about 172-175 miles on the motorway during winter trying to keep to about 70mph. Some posts below:

 

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Can manage 200 miles with a few % left over, did 235 miles today left with 97% and GOM rated 208 miles range, stopped for ~14 mins to pee, and grab a drink etc. and topped up to 67% (12.7kWh added) was achieving 45+kW from the charger which was great, and ended up arriving with 70 miles left still
 
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