[Richard Wood]

The German channel Nextmove

(subtitles available) has just done an excellent analysis of this topic, and EV advantages in winter.

My own experience (e-Niro, 2 years, Herefordshire + trips to Aberdeen) shows roughly a 30% increase in monthly average energy consumption (at car level) between summer and winter months. And my tests show 20% increase in the power required to overcome drag and rolling resistance alone – even in our usual winter temperatures, above freezing – so reduced regen as well. Added to which, the heater hits efficiency hard on short journeys but quickly settles down to around 500W on a longer trip. Then there are greater electrical losses, too.

As a snapshot, 102 miles from home to Chester Services: July 2019: 21.2kWh, arrive with 70%; February 2020: 25.3kWh, arrive with 64%, i.e. about 19.3% increase (summer not particularly warm nor winter particularly cold).

 

[Bill N]

This causes me to ponder....heating the entire volume of a car just to ensure the comfort of a driver and any passengers is quite wasteful, as well as being a primary cause for reduced range in winter.

It’s sort of akin to working from home during the day, with heating on in the office space, but also having the heating on in the bedrooms all day long. Or feeling a bit chilly whilst sat of the sofa and turning the thermostat up to eventually heat up all of the air, instead of just using a blanket, or a plug-in heated throw or similar.

Heated steering wheels and heated seats go some way to addressing this, and some cars have driver only climate settings which may help a little... but in theory at least, what’s ideally needed is a way of just providing warmth (or cooling) to the area & volume in which each occupant of a car is sat.

I guess there are almost certainly 12V plug-in electric blankets that can be purchased, and probably other weird and wonderful stuff like electric socks...but I wonder if there’s any more elegant solutions that car makers could come up with to reduce energy consumption by somehow providing much more targeted heating / cooling on a seat by seat basis and that negates the need to continuously heat all of the air in the cabin.

 

[6652]

I’ve still got a heated motorbike jacket, trousers and gloves somewhere, but I’m jiggered if I’m putting that lot on to drive a car!

Even if it still fitted me after all these years...

 

[Bill N]

Yes it wouldn’t be particularly elegant to have to put that lot on every winter’s morning!

You’d almost want to somehow create some sort of perfectly transparent bubble that selectively cocoons each occupied seat, and into which heated or cooled air is provided - along with heated/cooled seats, wheel and maybe underfloor heating. Some buses are almost doing that already I suppose. Maybe something could be done with air curtains

 

[Xinix]

You can also fill the car with little polystyrene balls and just wiggle your way into your seat each morning. You'll be nice and cosy guaranteed.

 

[prawlin]

You can also fill the car with little polystyrene balls and just wiggle your way into your seat each morning. You'll be nice and cosy guaranteed.

Good idea! Only real issue I can see is that you would need to turn the car onto its side so as not to lose your balls out whilst getting in and out

 

[Bill N]

Even if you lost a few of the balls, at least your balls would be warm..

 

[edteamslr]

You can also fill the car with little polystyrene balls and just wiggle your way into your seat each morning. You'll be nice and cosy guaranteed.

Just don't turn on the aircon by accident as you're driving down the highway!

 

[Leonids]

Good idea! Only real issue I can see is that you would need to turn the car onto its side so as not to lose your balls out whilst getting in and out

That's easy to fix. Just enter and exit via the sunroof!

 

[prawlin]

That's easy to fix. Just enter and exit via the sunroof!

Nope, that wouldn’t work for me. My 2020 '4' doesn’t have a sunroof 😬

 

[Bobdniro]

That's easy to fix. Just enter and exit via the sunroof!

But DONT open the sunroof whilst driving 😮

 

[idiotzoo]

Nope, that wouldn’t work for me. My 2020 '4' doesn’t have a sunroof 😬

I’d have thought the bigger problem would be lack of blind spot warning on your car... but other than that I can’t see any drawbacks.

 

[freddym]

This causes me to ponder....heating the entire volume of a car just to ensure the comfort of a driver and any passengers is quite wasteful, as well as being a primary cause for reduced range in winter.

It’s sort of akin to working from home during the day, with heating on in the office space, but also having the heating on in the bedrooms all day long. Or feeling a bit chilly whilst sat of the sofa and turning the thermostat up to eventually heat up all of the air, instead of just using a blanket, or a plug-in heated throw or similar.

Heated steering wheels and heated seats go some way to addressing this, and some cars have driver only climate settings which may help a little... but in theory at least, what’s ideally needed is a way of just providing warmth (or cooling) to the area & volume in which each occupant of a car is sat.

I guess there are almost certainly 12V plug-in electric blankets that can be purchased, and probably other weird and wonderful stuff like electric socks...but I wonder if there’s any more elegant solutions that car makers could come up with to reduce energy consumption by somehow providing much more targeted heating / cooling on a seat by seat basis and that negates the need to continuously heat all of the air in the cabin.

Also air humidity levels need managing especially in rainy weather after entering car with wet jackets, boots etc. Again targeted direct electrical heating of the windshield and side windows would help with that but extra expense and complexity.

 

[championc]

It’s sort of akin to working from home during the day, with heating on in the office space, but also having the heating on in the bedrooms all day long.

I would highly recommend TADO Smart Thermostatic Radiator Valves. It basically turns each room into it's own zone, so you can just heat selected rooms at selected times to selected temperatures.

I working the dining room all day, and my daughter from her bedroom, so those two rads are on all day. The sitting room is off all morning and then incrementally rises in temp in the evening. The hall and bedrooms are off all day. Our master bedroom is only on from about 22:00 for 30 mins. The dining room, as I mentioned previously, is only set for Mon-Fri

 

[80698]

Nope, that wouldn’t work for me. My 2020 '4' doesn’t have a sunroof 😬

Would you like one for just £34.99?

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[idiotzoo]

I’ve noticed the magic temperature is about 11 degrees. Below that, on shortish journeys I struggle to get 3Mi/kWh. This morning at 12 degrees 4.5Mi/kWh.

 

[Richard Wood]

I’ve noticed the magic temperature is about 11 degrees. Below that, on shortish journeys I struggle to get 3Mi/kWh. This morning at 12 degrees 4.5Mi/kWh.

Much the same experience here. And that is pretty much reflected in my monthly averages and UK average monthly temperatures.

(monthly totals, calculated on the basis of odometer miles and total energy added to the battery in charging sessions – back up to 100% at each month end – at battery level, i.e. after all charging losses)

2020/21
May Jun Jul Aug Sept Oct…. Nov Dec Jan
3.93 4.44 4.70 4.81 4.78 4.28 3.72 3.53 3.59miles/kWh
15.8 14.0 13.2 12.9 13.0 14.5 16.7 17.6 17.3kWh/100km

Average of best 3 (Jul-Sept) v worst 3 (Nov-Jan) 13.03 v 17.2 = 32% increase in winter.

But 2020 has been a bit atypical, with lower mileage and fewer long journeys, so looking back at
2019/20
May Jun Jul Aug Sept Oct…. Nov Dec Jan
4.70 4.50 4.67 4.97 4.70 4.09 4.01 3.59 3.74miles/kWh
13.2 13.8 13.3 12.5 13.2 15.2 15.5 17.3 16.6kWh/100km

Average of best 3 (Jul-Sept) v worst 3 (Nov-Jan) 13.0 v 16.5 = 26.7% increase in winter.

Overall, therefore, around 30% higher energy consumption in winter compared with summer.

The heater hits short journeys hard but the main culprit is increasing drag and rolling resistance as the temperature falls. This in turn has the compounding effect of less regen.

 

[Nick Heenan]

You can also fill the car with little polystyrene balls and just wiggle your way into your seat each morning. You'll be nice and cosy guaranteed.

But good luck dusting them all off your clothes when you get out !

 

[prawlin]

Well I had no problem whatsoever with poor winter efficiency or range on a short journey into town today (to feel a little prick ). I used UVO preheat for 10 mins then drove with heater totally off in the nice sunshine. Quite an amazing effect! Peter......

PS No polystyrene balls were used either!

 

[Richard Wood]

Well I had no problem whatsoever with poor winter efficiency or range on a short journey into town today (to feel a little prick ). I used UVO preheat for 10 mins then drove with heater totally off in the nice sunshine. Quite an amazing effect! Peter......
View attachment 141327

PS No polystyrene balls were used either!

To infinity and beyond