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2020 BMW i3S 120Ah BEV
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You are right, there is variability, it also depends on mileage and how the car was driven, but nevertheless this is an issue for ICE cars, particularly on the more sports car/finely tuned end. It is not a key issue, but one nonetheless. Also folk saying they had a car for 200000 miles and it's not an issue, did they actually have the engine tested for power output ? As bits of the car rust and drop away it also gets lighter, like.my friends cortina ;)
Yeah in fact I have a155,000 mile 25 year old VW that has proven it exceeded its factory output unmodified. I think any car "running ok" should meet near normal specifications. Cars with unnoticed faults obviously not. Said 25 year old VWs have a common issue whereby the cam position sensor will fail but the car will still run perfectly fine, there's no warning lights or emissions problems.. it's just 30bhp down on power. The uneducated driver might just sell it and move on assuming it's a lemon, but a simple sensor swap reveals the hidden 30bhp the next time the car starts .. The rust is fun. I also have an i3 and expect to never see rust .. !
 

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I'd hope/expect 15 years/200k miles with 75-80% original capacity if it hasn't had an overly hard life (e.g. all rapid charging to 100%). 8 year battery warranty is for worst case abuse. Most people currently expect an ICE car to last 15 years if its not written off in an accident.

If an EV isn't expected to last as long as an ICE without significant reinvestment (dropping £££ on a new battery), the residuals will suffer.
Still in the realms of speculation about buying BEV or ICE, what is the general consensus on the state of the UK's fossil-fuel filling station network in 15 years time? Will it be in decline since the future market will inevitably shrink? When are we likely to see this decline begin and will that prospect start hitting ICE car sales before 2030?
I have a 16 year-old Lotus, the value of which seems to be increasing, so long term fuel supplies don't seem to be an issue yet (at least for specialist cars). I'd love to convert it to battery power but its value would plummet the moment I started removing all the ICE bits.
 

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Still in the realms of speculation about buying BEV or ICE, what is the general consensus on the state of the UK's fossil-fuel filling station network in 15 years time? Will it be in decline since the future market will inevitably shrink? When are we likely to see this decline begin and will that prospect start hitting ICE car sales before 2030?
I have a 16 year-old Lotus, the value of which seems to be increasing, so long term fuel supplies don't seem to be an issue yet (at least for specialist cars). I'd love to convert it to battery power but its value would plummet the moment I started removing all the ICE bits.
I think that 2028/2029 will see a flurry of ICE car sales. Not everyone wants an EV, for irrational reasons, or purely because they haven't the means to charge at home and think its going to be a PITA and expensive to charge (and they'd be right - I would not be in an EVright now if I was going to have to go driving to a DC fast charger and pay 40p per kWh for the privilege). It's probably going to be 2040 before you see ICE cars outnumbered by EVs
 

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The number of fuel filling stations has steadily fallen over the last few decades. 30 years ago there were more than 20,000 filling stations (many of them quite small) whereas we are now down to around 8,000 or 9,000 (but mainly quite large). Even now I have to drive 10 miles to find a filling station for my 22 year old Lotus, and I expect accessing fuel will become increasingly more difficult. Nevertheless, I don't think finding petrol will be the problem for me, but old age will make it very difficult to physically get into the Lotus!
 

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The number of fuel filling stations has steadily fallen over the last few decades. 30 years ago there were more than 20,000 filling stations (many of them quite small) whereas we are now down to around 8,000 or 9,000 (but mainly quite large). Even now I have to drive 10 miles to find a filling station for my 22 year old Lotus, and I expect accessing fuel will become increasingly more difficult. Nevertheless, I don't think finding petrol will be the problem for me, but old age will make it very difficult to physically get into the Lotus!
I think the drop in fuelling station numbers doesn't necessarily reflect significant changes in petrol/diesel demand. Fewer but bigger stations supplying broadly the same demand, likely as a result of all having to remain competitive as Supermarkets generally set local prices and others follow accordingly.

It'll be a long time before EVs make a huge dent in those revenues and our national grid requirements. Once they do, expect some hefty taxation to come with driving an EV.
 

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30 years ago most cars could only do a couple of hundred miles between full ups! Present day ICE’s use less fuel and subsequently longer range - especially considering the boom of diesel cars in the last 30 years.
 

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30 years ago most cars could only do a couple of hundred miles between full ups! Present day ICE’s use less fuel and subsequently longer range - especially considering the boom of diesel cars in the last 30 years.
Do they really use much less fuel? For every advancement seen in efficiency, there's usually been an increase in car weight, cancelling it out.

I had a 1989 Golf Driver high compression 1.6 petrol (one step down from a GTI, looked like a GTI) in 1994. I hammered that thing. One one particular journey - I did 315 miles up the country from Southampton to Hartlepool in 3hrs and 45 mins, the car averaged 43mpg.

I had an old Peugeot 205 Diesel (old N reg - 1996?) that did 60mpg everywhere.

Those cars probably weighed about 70% of their current equivalents. Not convinced fuel economy in cars has come on that much - although performance has come on loads.
 

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Got my first car in 87.. Never owned one capable of going more than a couple of hundred miles (maybe 250) on a tank until 2000... (a diesel). :D

30 years ago, fuel injection - electronic ignition/timing were just becoming mainstream. 95%+ of cars had carbs. Metros and Fiestas still had pushrod engines.... Fuel tanks were smaller too - Mk1 fiesta 34 litres, Mk2 40....
 

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Seat Ibiza- contemplating an ID.3
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Do they really use much less fuel? For every advancement seen in efficiency, there's usually been an increase in car weight, cancelling it out.

I had a 1989 Golf Driver high compression 1.6 petrol (one step down from a GTI, looked like a GTI) in 1994. I hammered that thing. One one particular journey - I did 315 miles up the country from Southampton to Hartlepool in 3hrs and 45 mins, the car averaged 43mpg.

I had an old Peugeot 205 Diesel (old N reg - 1996?) that did 60mpg everywhere.

Those cars probably weighed about 70% of their current equivalents. Not convinced fuel economy in cars has come on that much - although performance has come on loads.
Things certainly took a dive fuel economy wise in the late '90s early '00s. My first car was a 2002 Polo 1.2 3-cyl. Going by weights on Autotrader- it was 1186kg. Again according to Autotrader, my 2019 Seat Ibiza 1.0 TSI weighs about the same- 1149kg. The Seat is a physically bigger car, more interior space, safer in a crash, much quicker performance, and I'm getting about 10mpg better fuel economy.

There were huge strides in safety in the late '90s early '00s- my Polo was a decent little car safety wise for the time and I wouldn't call them bad even by today's standards. But to do that at the time required lots of steel as the computational modelling wasn't as good, and cars these days also use more high-strength steel. The engines have now caught up to the safety, and the improvements in modelling etc has started to make cars lighter again, both of which are improving fuel economy.

I think my Ibiza would manage similar fuel economy if driven similarly hard on the motorway for that sort of journey, but sat on cruise at 70 I'm hitting high 50s on a run. These turbo engines don't really give much advantage if driven hard, but really pay dividends when driven normally on a long run.

I think you're right though that weight increases are damaging a lot of the potential fuel economy increases. Do we all really need a massive SUV, which seems to be the trend? My next door neighbours, who are a young professional couple with no kids, have a GLC and an e-2008. I don't get it :ROFLMAO:
 

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I'm sure our next door-but-one traded in their Golf for a T-Roc because they feel its more reasonable to launch a T-Roc up the kerb because they can't park for toffee (garage/drive is on the back of our houses, in the street behind, but most people park up front).
 

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Things certainly took a dive fuel economy wise in the late '90s early '00s. My first car was a 2002 Polo 1.2 3-cyl. Going by weights on Autotrader- it was 1186kg. Again according to Autotrader, my 2019 Seat Ibiza 1.0 TSI weighs about the same- 1149kg. The Seat is a physically bigger car, more interior space, safer in a crash, much quicker performance, and I'm getting about 10mpg better fuel economy.

There were huge strides in safety in the late '90s early '00s- my Polo was a decent little car safety wise for the time and I wouldn't call them bad even by today's standards. But to do that at the time required lots of steel as the computational modelling wasn't as good, and cars these days also use more high-strength steel. The engines have now caught up to the safety, and the improvements in modelling etc has started to make cars lighter again, both of which are improving fuel economy.

I think my Ibiza would manage similar fuel economy if driven similarly hard on the motorway for that sort of journey, but sat on cruise at 70 I'm hitting high 50s on a run. These turbo engines don't really give much advantage if driven hard, but really pay dividends when driven normally on a long run.

I think you're right though that weight increases are damaging a lot of the potential fuel economy increases. Do we all really need a massive SUV, which seems to be the trend? My next door neighbours, who are a young professional couple with no kids, have a GLC and an e-2008. I don't get it :ROFLMAO:
It's the car as a status symbol.
Not a new idea.
 

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Talking of light cars - I had an AX-GT (the one with the twin Webber) from 99-00... Great car - but felt like it was made out of (badly) glued together cardboard :D

Edit: Just googled it, 745kg....
 

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I think you're right though that weight increases are damaging a lot of the potential fuel economy increases. Do we all really need a massive SUV, which seems to be the trend? My next door neighbours, who are a young professional couple with no kids, have a GLC and an e-2008. I don't get it :ROFLMAO:
Two things. "Need" is different to "Want", and those definitions are intensely personal. Mrs Utumno consistently, over a period of many years, professes to "need" a Louis Vuitton tote bag, Attempting to explain the difference between "need" and "want" in that case is fruitless 😀 However, due to her disabilities, she absolutely needs driver assistance tech and a "step-in, step-out" crossover/SUV style height to getting in and out of the car. Many drivers prefer ("want") the ease of access a crossover/SUV gives them, purely for convenience. Status isn't the only reason to purchase, but it's certainly something some take into account. In short, it's complicated, and it's good to have a wide choice to fulfil both "need" and "want".

a GLC and an e-2008
Carbon offsetting in this way is more common than many people realise, particularly among the more affluent 😂
 

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Talking of light cars - I had an AX-GT (the one with the twin Webber) from 99-00... Great car - but felt like it was made out of (badly) glued together cardboard :D

Edit: Just googled it, 745kg....
I had one of those. So easy to get the back end out - incredibly unstable. The dearest banger I ever had in that it cost me £750 and I scrapped it when it's next MOT was due as, I was faced with a £700 bill to get it through the next one. That was the the point at which I decided to buy new rather than bangers.

Never known a car deteriorate so much in a year as that one.
 

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This thread is pretty far off topic now. I’d be interested in more details about the ID.3 battery rather than the cars of yesteryear.
 

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Definitely @Utumno
Need and want are two very different things, and we're all different.
I'm just glad that they've got the EV as the second car!
 
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