[Thomas carter]

The problem is so many people don't care, they just want brexit and will vote for literally any idiot who they think might deliver it.

He's become like Trump, at this point there's almost nothing he could do that would stop some people voting for him.

Agree, although id point out that the same can be said about some of the more extreme Corbynites that defend his every action and every hole in their Manifesto. There are many who would vote one party irrespective of whatever they did.

Its still very much the moderate conservatives and the undecided sway voters that are the ones that need persuading, and like the polling showed during the first round of debates that Corbyn had done best amongst that group, I think more and more moderates over the next few weeks will see the blustering and the reperated lying being reported and realise that the current Tories administration are not the answer - the slow narrowing of the gap between tories and labour suggests thats whats happening

 

[donald]

Well, that was an interesting interview.

Watching Johnson's spluttering incoherance as he failed again and again to get his scripted responses delivered was an absolute pleasure.

I don't care, I just want brexit and will vote for literally any idiot who I think might deliver it.

 

[Rei]

I don't care, I just want brexit and will vote for literally any idiot who I think might deliver it.

Is there anything that would stop you voting for Boris? Is there anything he could say or do that would make you vote against the Tories?

 

[donald]

Is there anything that would stop you voting for Boris? Is there anything he could say or do that would make you vote against the Tories?

It was said in jest, but if you want specifics then the answer is that I cannot vote for Boris anyway because I don't live in his constituency.

 

[Rei]

It was said in jest, but if you want specifics then the answer is that I cannot vote for Boris anyway because I don't live in his constituency.

Yeah yeah.

It's better to be a floating voter anyway. If you are loyal to one party or if you only care about a single issue then you get ignored because no-one is fighting for your vote anyway.

 

[BurningNaturalGas]

I don't care, I just want brexit and will vote for literally any idiot who I think might deliver it.

The problem you have is that any half-decent delivery requires copious intelligence and preparation, which contemporary governments have in short supply.

 

[Duncan]

Finally! Back on topic...

Looks like the Leave campaign is as truthful and accurate as ever.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201207804968808452

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

 

[BurningNaturalGas]

He's become like Trump..

Conservatism is the protection of traditional values such as constraining executive power, championing monarchical esteem, and protecting EU trade. PM Johnson is neither Conservative nor defending the defensible.

To allow Johnson (or Corbyn) victory will reflect poorly on voters and stain our reputation as defenders of liberal society.

 

[Rei]

To allow Johnson (or Corbyn) victory will reflect poorly on voters and stain our reputation as defenders of liberal society.

Well one of them is going to win and there isn't much voters can do about it.

I don't see how Corbyn would damage our reputation for being a liberal society though. Boris obviously already has, along with Farage, but Corbyn?

It's the opposite I think.

 

[Jimbo]

Finally! Back on topic...

Looks like the Leave campaign is as truthful and accurate as ever.

"A new comparitive test of the car picture" - what does that even mean?

 

[donald]

Well one of them is going to win and there isn't much voters can do about it.

Could Nicola Sturgeon hold power, if the rest are completely split up?

I was just thinking whether there could be SNP candidates placed in England. Or better still, could we have an English National Party whose stated aim is to seek independence from Wales/NIreland/Scotland?

Without NI, Brexit would have been a breeze.

I guess it'd be declared racist to have an ENP that states as policy we would be better off without the Gallic nations, but curiously it's not racist for the SNP to want likewise?

 

[Thomas carter]

I don't know if anyone caught it last night, but it was interesting to see the focus group of labour leave voters talking about this upcoming GE

Focus group: Can Tories win over people who voted Labour and Leave?

In today's political environment it's not just the message the politicians are promoting - but whether anyone is listening.

www.channel4.com

To me it was a continuation of the same depressing message coming into and out of the referendum, rightly there is a lot of anger and frustration, particularly in the north and midlands which I feel myself, but sadly also a lack of understanding and also a huge amount of propaganda that's causing confusion about who to blame and who to trust. Repeating many of the untruths about why Brexit is important, and many thinking that it would all be done and dusted in 6 months and that somehow the rich will benefit from remaining and the poor will suffer (when its the other way around) you can see why. Admitting that Johnson will lie to the queen and anyone yet then trusting what he is saying in his speech?

Labour has a lot to do to undo the loss of trust with this group, especially as many of the people who will end up voting for them also don't trust them, but they clearly identify the greater threat of Johnson

 

[donald]

...sadly also a lack of understanding and also a huge amount of propaganda that's causing confusion about who to blame and who to trust. Repeating many of the untruths about why Brexit is important, and many thinking that it would all be done and dusted in 6 months and that somehow the rich will benefit from remaining and the poor will suffer (when its the other way around) you can see why. ...

Why do you think facts make any difference now?

As I routinely point out, people are completely taken in by arguments of 'pathos' [both evidently in these forums and in the wider world] and now feel empowered to reject 'logos'. This is what is killing the modern world itself.

Whatever you think are 'facts' are no such thing in other people's views.

Facts are just excuses.

 

[Eoin]

........ I guess it'd be declared racist to have an ENP .....

Not because a party campaigning for English independence is necessarily racist, but because parties that have campaigned on English or British Nationalist issues in the past have generally been at least a bit racist and been populated by a noticeable percentage of people who are openly racist. The SNP is openly pro-immigration and pro-equal rights, avoiding all of the blaming of foreigners / immigrants for economic and social issues that tarnishes parties from the NF to the Tories on the right.

 

[mikegs]

Mmm

Whatever you think are 'facts' are no such thing in other people's views.

Or as I say: "Truth is in the eye of the beholder."

 

[donald]

The SNP .... avoiding all of the blaming of foreigners / immigrants for economic and social issues...

Oh, there I was thinking they were blaming the English for holding them back?

Remind me what their central reasoning is for wanting to be independent...?

 

[Eoin]

Oh, there I was thinking they were blaming the English for holding them back?

Remind me what their central reasoning is for wanting to be independent...?

Same reason people voted Brexit, independence feels like a nice idea even if it makes no sense.

 

[Rei]

Or better still, could we have an English National Party whose stated aim is to seek independence from Wales/NIreland/Scotland?

We've had a few of those, they all attracted the wrong crowd.

 

[Rei]

I don't know if anyone caught it last night, but it was interesting to see the focus group of labour leave voters talking about this upcoming GE

Focus group: Can Tories win over people who voted Labour and Leave?

In today's political environment it's not just the message the politicians are promoting - but whether anyone is listening.

www.channel4.com

To me it was a continuation of the same depressing message coming into and out of the referendum, rightly there is a lot of anger and frustration, particularly in the north and midlands which I feel myself, but sadly also a lack of understanding and also a huge amount of propaganda that's causing confusion about who to blame and who to trust. Repeating many of the untruths about why Brexit is important, and many thinking that it would all be done and dusted in 6 months and that somehow the rich will benefit from remaining and the poor will suffer (when its the other way around) you can see why. Admitting that Johnson will lie to the queen and anyone yet then trusting what he is saying in his speech?

Labour has a lot to do to undo the loss of trust with this group, especially as many of the people who will end up voting for them also don't trust them, but they clearly identify the greater threat of Johnson

It's so sad... Someone who thinks that brexit will be bad for the billionaires and good for ordinary people, and who expects post-brexit growth... Some people are just so far gone they feel like lost cause.

Maybe they are, so we have to concentrate on the Tory voters who realized that brexit was a disaster and want to stop it now.

 

[mikegs]

We've had a few of those, they all attracted the wrong crowd.

There's a conundrum buried there.
Other countries seem to manage to have 'independence' movements without them being overrun with racism.
I've always ascribed the English failure of that to a lack of extreme patriotism in the majority of the country, so it's only the extremists who sign up, and stay. The rest just aren't that bothered.

Then we voted for Brexit ...