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I think there are one clear and measurable benefits:
  1. Higher rate tax payers will pay less tax and off-shoring of assets will be easier.
  2. Due to labour shortages, the government have promised to make it easier for economic migrants across the globe. This will result in lower wage bills for employers.
  3. Because we won’t have a trade deal of any sort for ages, we will have to reduce import tariffs to zero. This will make foreign goods cheaper and drive more UK based businesses to off-shore their production.
Is that SMART enough for you? :)
Close enough. No actual timescales but at least we have some clear objectives there.

So easier access to tax havens, lower wages, cheaper goods in the shops and more (can we say how many exactly?) business moving overseas.

Thanks.

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Close enough. No actual timescales but at least we have some clear objectives there.

So easier access to tax havens, lower wages, cheaper goods in the shops and more (can we say how many exactly?) business moving overseas.

Thanks.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
Sorry, hard to put each timescales on this stuff.

Item 1 is effective almost immediately.

Item 2 the government will have to get moving on this year as most EU workers have been put off coming to the UK.

Item 3 I believe is happening already - Brexit will merely accelerate things. Not sure when we are allowed to drop import tariffs to zero - maybe when we crash out in Jan 21?
 

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But just because it’s not important to you doesn’t mean it’s right to take it away from those who it is important to,
So you think that people should vote according to how they think other people will want them to? Logically that will mean everything flips because you would have to vote leave to show your support for 'the other side'.
People are expected to vote for their point of view or it will be further from any kind of representative democracy then it is now. One man, one vote - importance doesn't come into it.

That's easy to say from the comfortable position of someone who isn't about to lose their job.
Yes, I've had my fair share of jobs being shunted around the globe, so I understand it's stressful.

But my point stands - the Rubicon has been crossed, so it's time to stop wishing we'd stayed on the other bank and get on with route planning the future.
 

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So you think that people should vote according to how they think other people will want them to? Logically that will mean everything flips because you would have to vote leave to show your support for 'the other side'.
People are expected to vote for their point of view or it will be further from any kind of representative democracy then it is now. One man, one vote - importance doesn't come into it.
No, people should weigh up the pros and cons and vote on the one they see is the best - a nunber voted leave, that’s fine, except when they can’t then state why leave is better. Many people voted tory which i disagree with, but many argue that the tories were the safer vote this time round which is logic I can follow if not agree with, asking for logic on leave isn’t any different a concept or expectation

Yes, I've had my fair share of jobs being shunted around the globe, so I understand it's stressful.

But my point stands - the Rubicon has been crossed, so it's time to stop wishing we'd stayed on the other bank and get on with route planning the future.

No that’s not how democracy works, if you can call it that at the moment, unless benefits can e shown the government and leavers need to continue to be held to task over leave - there are many many issues that are extremely dangerous to our democracy that Brexit raised and they can’t be Allowed to be swept under the rug[/QUOTE]
 

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And as we've established multiple times on here most leavers are interested in the principle of leaving, not the numbers...
I questioned a leaver about their reasons for wanting to leave. He was fairly intelligent, so i expected reasonably thought-through answers. He said there were two main reasons:

1 Immigration, and
2 Taking back control

I asked him what he meant by taking back control, and he replied that it was taking back control of our borders. So, basically:

1. Immigration, and ...
2. Immigration
 

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No that’s not how democracy works
This:
I asked him what he meant by taking back control, and he replied that it was taking back control of our borders. So, basically:

1. Immigration, and ...
2. Immigration
is how it works.
Yes, it's shit.
Yes, it ought to be better.
BUT - it's what we've got and it's put us on this path. You can bleat, whinge, demand all you like, but Boris's brexit IS coming (no, I have no idea what it will look like in a year's time) and anyone who thinks it will affect them (and quite a few that don't) need to be planning their futures rather than trying to emulate Doctor Who and reverse the clock.
Remain is dead, but some 'mad scientists' are giving it a zombie existence. It just causes trouble and no good.
 

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This:is how it works.
Yes, it's shit.
Yes, it ought to be better.
BUT - it's what we've got and it's put us on this path. You can bleat, whinge, demand all you like, but Boris's brexit IS coming (no, I have no idea what it will look like in a year's time) and anyone who thinks it will affect them (and quite a few that don't) need to be planning their futures rather than trying to emulate Doctor Who and reverse the clock.
Remain is dead, but some 'mad scientists' are giving it a zombie existence. It just causes trouble and no good.
I think what you are describing/after is losers consent - where the loser in an argument accepts the result and moves on, generally however losers consent is generated by the winners - olive branches are extended to ease the worries of those who were on the other side of the argument, brexit is infamous as having none of that, especially under johnson, nor any of the positives explained and outlined as this thread show, plus there’s the whole question about the referendum was won in the first place, so it’s easy to to see why losers consent has not been forthcoming.

It also doesn’t help when in the same breath as asking for losers consent in the name of democracy the tories are doing things like rejecting the democratic decision not to elect Zac Goldsmith

 

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Nope. Never heard of it.
I'm just being pragmatic - the milk is on the floor, I'm looking for the kitchen roll.
If you and others want to spend the next n years crying about it, well that's your right. Be my guest.
well quite, as I said many remainers are now forced to have to fix it to try and get it to work as part of their jobs, however following your analogy, the milk is on the floor because the glass has a hole in it (electoral law broken, lies during referndum, russian report surpressed etc) - so it’s right to point this out as unless we continue to flag it up as an issue we will not learn from the past and correct it then we are doomed to spill milk every time again In the future .

As I’ve said before, one of my biggest concerns is what allowing the referndum result means for our democracy, the law was broken and yet the result stands so where’s the incentive to follow the law in the future?
 

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A good article that outlines some of the challenges coming after the 31st and how brexit is far from over


Border issues in NI could mean the government is taken to the ECJ as Johnsons border in the sea would mean he fails to fulfil the obligations in the withdrawal agreement

Massive amounts of work are needed from the end of January to January 2021

Negotiation on trade will stretch well past 2020, making it even more challenging for businesses to prepare and making it even less likely that they will commit funding in the UK
 

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cheaper goods in the shops
That's one of the worst tricks they pulled. Yeah it might get a bit cheaper, but only so that they can drive your wages down even further without you actually starving to death. I mean if all you want is low cost goods then China should be paradise.

But my point stands - the Rubicon has been crossed, so it's time to stop wishing we'd stayed on the other bank and get on with route planning the future.
That's why I asked about 3rd class citizens but I think it's hopeless. Got a meeting later today to find out what my options are but I don't think we can get out of the UK now.

I'm not sure what the best way forward is now. Breaking up the UK has advantages for us but also means it will be harder to get rid of a Tory government. Even the brexiteers can't tell you what the opportunities are now so all the focus has to be on getting back what we have lost somehow.
 

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That's why I asked about 3rd class citizens but I think it's hopeless. Got a meeting later today to find out what my options are but I don't think we can get out of the UK now.

I'm not sure what the best way forward is now. Breaking up the UK has advantages for us but also means it will be harder to get rid of a Tory government. Even the brexiteers can't tell you what the opportunities are now so all the focus has to be on getting back what we have lost somehow.
I read a good article on that that this morning, the focus on trying to keep the UK as a liberal and progressive country in the face of the conservatives push in the opposite direction

 

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as I said many remainers are now forced to have to fix it to try and get it to work as part of their jobs,
because leavers are all unemployed northerners?

challenges coming after the 31st and how brexit is far from over
I never said it would be easy or that Brexit was over. Just that it's happening and there's no point continuing to waste effort in trying to stop it.

the focus has to be on getting back what we have lost somehow.
Still trying to turn the clock back. Perhaps looking for future alternatives would be better.
 

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I read a good article on that that this morning, the focus on trying to keep the UK as a liberal and progressive country in the face of the conservatives push in the opposite direction

Excellent article. They (the mooted organisation) just need to be very, very careful with what name they adopt.
 

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I read a good article on that that this morning, the focus on trying to keep the UK as a liberal and progressive country in the face of the conservatives push in the opposite direction
I fear it's impossible. Brexit is hate and fear. Even the post-brexit stuff is racist, it's all about doing trade deals with white or ex-colony (Commonwealth) countries.

Still trying to turn the clock back. Perhaps looking for future alternatives would be better.
What alternatives would those be?

Really I'm asking seriously. I need a new job that pays about £30k more than the going rate in the UK to replace the one I'm about to lose. What opportunities are there to get one now?
 

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because leavers are all unemployed northerners?
No, I didn't say that, you did - looking at the stats the trends are that the younger you are the more likely that you were to be remain, and similarly those with a degree were more likely to be remain - the AB group of professionals and managers voted a majority to remain.

Its those that will have to sort the fallout from this decision, hence why I called it out as somewhat ironic a few pages back as there are calls now for Leavers to now own Brexit, but in reality they won't be, its those who wanted to remain who will have to get involved and try and mitigate the impact
 

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I fear it's impossible. Brexit is hate and fear. Even the post-brexit stuff is racist, it's all about doing trade deals with white or ex-colony (Commonwealth) countries.



What alternatives would those be?

Really I'm asking seriously. I need a new job that pays about £30k more than the going rate in the UK to replace the one I'm about to lose. What opportunities are there to get one now?
I'm in no position to help you directly. But, out of interest:-
1. In what country do you work now?
2 What is your profession ?

Maybe someone will have some suggestions.
 
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