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Northampton Handyman
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Today I bought a 2011 Renault Kangoo ZE van for £5,900 inc. VAT. Renault said that the lease battery state of health is 78% so I expected it to have a range of roughly 110x0.78=86 miles. I bought it fully charged and gently nursed it up the motorway at 55 mph but it was into the red zone after only 41 miles. I had made sure that everything (air conditioning, fan, radio etc.) was off and I used the economy setting. I have not yet signed a battery lease with Renault so the garage is still legally leasing it.

So if I complain to Renault about poor range what might happen? Will I have to pay for tests on their batteries? Could it be that my van is the problem? Is there any way to independently check their 78% state of health reading? I’d go to https://www.renault.co.uk/finance/battery-hire.html to find out details, but that page hasn’t worked for at least two weeks. I’ve told Renault twice about their broken web page but they haven’t fixed it yet.

Your input would be most welcome
 

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It sounds like you have a number of weak cells that discharge quicker than the others, but also charge quicker keeping the SoH figure up.
Good luck with Renault. :rolleyes:
 

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30KW Tekna (2017)
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I just checked the lease warranty for you and although hard to find I believe they only repair or replace once the SOH fall below 75%.

I was thinking the same thing about weak cells as I had the same with my Leaf.

Also although the warranty I looked at didn’t mention it, look at what the contract classes as a repair, in my ignorance when I bought my car I assumed it meant a new pack but Nissan will just replace cells to bring it to I think 70%.

What does the OBD reader say?
 

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Is this the same clause as in the lease you have been provided with?


7. Warranties
7.1 We shall supply you with a Battery that is in good working condition and we shall replace or repair any defective Battery providing you comply with the terms and conditions of this Hire Agreement and the manufacturer recommendations for charging and use of the Battery.
7.2 In the event that we are required to repair or replace the Battery in terms of clause 7.1 above, then whilst the Battery is being repaired or replaced we shall provide you with an alternative vehicle, however we cannot guarantee the specification of any replacement vehicle. Where possible we will try to match the specification of the Vehicle but you accept that we may only be able to supply an internal combustion engine vehicle.
7.3 We shall provide you with a Battery that has sufficient charging capacity for the term of this Hire Agreement and any extension to the term. The charging threshold is 75% of the Batteryís original capacity.
7.4 You may, at your own expense, instruct a ìZE After-Sales Serviceî centre to carry out a battery charging diagnostic to test the capacity of the Battery. Should such diagnostic test determine that the Battery threshold capacity is lower than that in clause 7.3, we shall, at our discretion, either:
7.4.1 replace the Battery;
7.4.2 repair the Battery; or
7.4.3 provide such other mutually acceptable solution.
 

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Renault said that the lease battery state of health is 78% so I expected it to have a range of roughly 110x0.78=86 miles.
I'm afraid that you are being very optimistic with expecting 110 miles when new - nobody gets anywhere near those ranges in real life.
Perhaps if you have a cooling off period, reject it?
I'd seriously suggest that you consider this. What range do you actually need?
Our 2013 Kangoo is getting around 60 miles in this mild summer weather, and less than 50 in winter, but that's all urban delivery driving. We get much less on the dual carriageways - it's not a very aerodynamic shape.
If the Kangoo is like the LEAF urban stop-start driving gives better range than a constant 55 (61 indicated).
 

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30KW Tekna (2017)
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So 60*0.78= 46.8, so factoring in temp and road conditions that could be about right for that degredation?
 

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@yoh-there Does CanZE work on the Kangoo? If so, then I guess OP could get reasonable info using that on an Android phone with a cheap bluetooth adaptor.
 
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So 60*0.78= 46.8, so factoring in temp and road conditions that could be about right for that degredation?
Assuming no degradation on @Garry TheBiz van which isn't realistic, but
We get much less on the dual carriageways
Drive Green Range Test - 73 miles
It appears that you should expect around 3.5 m/kWh from a good example so to "only manage 45 miles" implies a very poor battery ~ 13kWh usable against the 17kWh expected. Or with the expected 17kWh only achieving 2.6m/kWh - e-Tron territory at much higher speeds, or a LEAF at 85MPH.
 

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Northampton Handyman
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
@yoh-there Does CanZE work on the Kangoo? If so, then I guess OP could get reasonable info using that on an Android phone with a cheap bluetooth adaptor.
Right at the end of the Drive Green Range Test that dk6780 so helpfully linked to (thank you SOOOO much!) he read the battery SOH using a bluetooth dongle and CanZE.
This thread says that CanZE does not yet support the Kangoo, but if you disable "Safe driving mode" in the app then most things do work if you tell it you're interrogating a Zoe R90/110. That didn't work for me, however. I got no readings.
131440
 

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Northampton Handyman
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
It appears that you should expect around 3.5 m/kWh from a good example so to "only manage 45 miles" implies a very poor battery ~ 13kWh usable against the 17kWh expected.
I'm learning a lot from this thread! The dashboard display reports an average of 3.07 m/kWh. I have no idea over how long a period that is averaged, but assuming that rate for the 41 miles (not 45) I drove on a full charge yesterday that would indicate 41/3.07=13.4 kWh. That's 61% of the original 22 kWh. That's a lot less than the 78% SOH that Renault told me over the phone when I gave them the van's registration number. When the battery lease papers arrive from Renault I think I'll be asking them to provide evidence of the battery state of health before I start paying for it.
 

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OK, so charge it up fully. Take it to a fast dual carriageway / motorway, reset the dashboard display and see what reading you get after say 10 miles at the "55" you did previously and the estimate you did above will be meaningful.

If you look at the video at around 3'.55" he showed a reading of 2.22miles/kWh after driving to Faringdon but he hadn't reset it before starting the trip. Clearly someone had thrashed it previously to get it that low as he ended up with just over 4, admittedly after some lower speed driving. So maybe it is mainly a speed issue. :unsure:
 

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Don’t forget to test your m/kw too as it may have been based on previous owners drives.
Are your tyre pressures correct?

It may be worth giving out a couple of dc charges then driving hard to recalibrate the gom.
 

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Northampton Handyman
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Discussion Starter #19
The CanZE hardware page says that "99% of the dongles on the well known auction sites are ELM327 clones and are build up from stolen and corrupt firmware. Using such a dongle may not work at best and put you and your car to unknown and unpredictable risks at worst" so that's probably why I got no results. I just ordered a dongle that CanZE says works with their app: the Konnwei KW902.
 

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It may be worth giving out a couple of dc charges then driving hard to recalibrate the gom.
:ROFLMAO: This a 22kWh kangoo they charge max at 3.3kW!

Certainly worth running down to zero and back to 100% to let cells balance, but shame CanZE doesn't work. I assume there were BMS updates for Kangoo too, so be good to know from Renault if they were applied.
 
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