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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
So public chargers are in place for the poor that cannot afford to buy a BEV. Gotcha!

(I assume you see the contradiction in your own reasoning here or do I need to spell it out for you?)
You know fully well what my opinion is. Stop playing games, there are TWO reasons not to go blocking a free charger, one is you are doing so at tax payers expense AND THE OTHER is you are blocking it.

There CAN be two bad reasons not to do something, not just one. Each has had its place in each of two different discussions.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
I can't answer for anyone else, but I can say that free charging locally and elsewhere was an incentive for me to change from ICE to BEV. Not the only factor but it helped get me over the line. Incentives typically work by people thinking they will make use of them, then actually doing so later on. It would be a bit difficult for anyone to use a charge point before they had an EV, wouldn't it? There is a certain ordering here that is unavoidable.
And I have said exactly the same IN THE PAST.

Times change.

Seriously, think about it; would you really try to persuade your best friend to take on a BEV now with the argument 'oh, public charging is such a breeze, and free!'.

Seriously?!

That argument might have worked 5 years ago, it is a dead duck now.


Sometimes when I'm charging, a curious ICE driver comes up and starts chatting, asking some questions about EVs, perhaps being surprised to see that they could get free charging, that the range was rather more than they expected, or that the car cost less than they thought. Maybe they then think it's something that might work for them?
As above. I would tell them to think twice with availability.


This is how EVs spread, I think: the more people have them; the more knowledge gets passed on; the more friends and family get lifts in them. They see the advantages. Then some of them buy one for themselves, and the cycle continues.
I regret we don't agree on this. You are talking about a bygone age, IMHO.
 

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Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
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You know fully well what my opinion is. Stop playing games, there are TWO reasons not to go blocking a free charger, one is you are doing so at tax payers expense AND THE OTHER is you are blocking it.

There CAN be two bad reasons not to do something, not just one. Each has had its place in each of two different discussions.
At this moment I am assuming you are without further arguments so I will end my participation in this discussion here.
 

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The climate battle will be fought and won or lost in the developing world… not in rich countries. Its ridiculous to assume those populations will all be able to go out and by an EV when they don’t even have electricity 24 hours a day let alone a gas powered car. It’s hopeful at best to believe that EV’s will have meaningful impact on climate change if they’re too expensive for the developing world.

If all the petrol in the ground is going to be burned either way… the environment doesn’t care if its through prius or a hummer.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
At this moment I am assuming you are without further arguments so I will end my participation in this discussion here.
I was already at the end of my argument when I said one definition of blocking a public charger is using it without needing to.

That is the sum total of my argument. I hold it to be an obvious definition.
 

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Ioniq 5
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You know fully well what my opinion is. Stop playing games, there are TWO reasons not to go blocking a free charger, one is you are doing so at tax payers expense AND THE OTHER is you are blocking it.

There CAN be two bad reasons not to do something, not just one. Each has had its place in each of two different discussions.
So in the world where @donald is king, who pray tell is allowed to use these chargers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
So in the world where @donald is king, who pray tell is allowed to use these chargers?
Top; Folk with no personal charger
2nd equal; PHEVs,
2nd equal; Folk from out of town
Third; returning distant commuters coming home but doing some shopping first and needing a splash to avoid any risk of a further diversion.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
Great. That’s me then.

(I removed my charger because I only use the free charging in town)
I'm not going to prejudge why you might have done that. Sure, if you have no charge point of your own, then you need to charge somewhere else, a public charge point maybe.

There are a whole host of mental illnesses that might have caused you to do that without prior causation, and I'm not qualitied to have an opinion on your clinical needs, only engineering ones.
 

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Hmm... I think smart EVSE's give them much needed data but would be surprised if used for taxation purposes. Do meters not need to be calibrated and tamperproof etc?
You’re right, also there’s probably too many non smart evse’s already in use. It could also lead to more work for firefighters when everybody starts avoiding tax by using granny chargers for hours on end!!
I suppose governments will take the cheapest option to raise tax on cars by ending the ev VED exemption, probably banding the rates by battery capacity? (on the premise that cars with bigger batteries are heavier and may do more miles) like they used engine cc’s beforehand.
 

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And I have said exactly the same IN THE PAST.

Times change.

Seriously, think about it; would you really try to persuade your best friend to take on a BEV now with the argument 'oh, public charging is such a breeze, and free!'.

Seriously?!

That argument might have worked 5 years ago, it is a dead duck now.
That's not what I'm saying, either on this forum, or to people I chat to in person. It's more nuanced.

Generally, my advice is to get a type 2 home charge point installed, and limit dependency on public charging. But sure, there is still free charging available for the time being in some places. You are going to have some bad public charging experiences sometimes, so it's nice to get some good ones too.

If I go into Tesco (whilst using the free charging outside, naturally), and I see two types of beans on the shelves, should I feel I ought to buy the more expensive ones, even though I can't taste any difference? After all, a poorer person might come in afterwards and need the cheap ones more than I do? My selfish behaviour could be depriving them. (Just because there are a few cans left now, that doesn't get me off the hook -- they might all be snapped up in the interim.)
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
That's not what I'm saying, either on this forum, or to people I chat to in person. It's more nuanced.

Generally, my advice is to get a type 2 home charge point installed, and limit dependency on public charging. But sure, there is still free charging available for the time being in some places. You are going to have some bad public charging experiences sometimes, so it's nice to get some good ones too.

If I go into Tesco (whilst using the free charging outside, naturally), and I see two types of beans on the shelves, should I feel I ought to buy the more expensive ones, even though I can't taste any difference? After all, a poorer person might come in afterwards and need the cheap ones more than I do? My selfish behaviour could be depriving them. (Just because there are a few cans left now, that doesn't get me off the hook -- they might all be snapped up in the interim.)
Using a public charger when you don't need to is blocking it. That's my opinion and I am welcome to it.

The comparison with your beans is incorrect; what you are doing is standing in front of the bean shelf, stopping others accessing theirs. It is not giving them a choice at all.
 

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Using a public charger when you don't need to is blocking it. That's my opinion and I am welcome to it.

The comparison with your beans is incorrect; what you are doing is standing in front of the bean shelf, stopping others accessing theirs. It is not giving them a choice at all.
No, blocking a charger is when you are preventing others from using it and not charging yourself. Even that is a bit harsh in some cases: you could be preparing to charge or 'dwelling' a little while at a destination charge point.

People are entitled to opinions of course, but when it gets to the point of using normal English words in a way that is different from how everyone else uses them, it gets a bit Alice in Wonderland. Or Clintonesque, if you prefer your nonsense with a more earthy, political edge.

And the beans are a limited resource, just like the charge point.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
No, blocking a charger is when you are preventing others from using it and not charging yourself. .....

People are entitled to opinions of course
Those two statements seem contradictory. Stating 'NO' to my opinion, but then saying I am entitled to it.

Odd. Rationality is lost here.

Just to be clear, you will have no cause of complaint if you find an Outlander charging at 3kW on a rapid for 90 minutes at a MSA. I'd be furious, but for you, that's OK. Just to be clear that is what you've just said.
 

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Those two statements seem contradictory. Stating 'NO' to my opinion, but then saying I am entitled to it.

Odd. Rationality is lost here.
Some things are highly subject to opinion, other things, like word meanings, less so.

Even if you truly believe this is a matter of opinion, others are also permitted to have them.

Just to be clear, you will have no cause of complaint if you find an Outlander charging at 3kW on a rapid for 90 minutes at a MSA. I'd be furious, but for you, that's OK. Just to be clear that is what you've just said.
Well, that's not what I just said, but still, if it did happen, as long as the driver was following the stated rules, I would have no cause for complaint.

If there were destination charge points available nearby, and the Outlander driver seemed friendly, I might ask if they had considered using one, as they could save money. Maybe that would be useful information. But that's as far as I would go. They are not my chargers, they are a shared resource. First come, first served. Like with supermarket beans.

Kind regards
- Garry
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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33,006 Posts
Discussion Starter · #96 ·
..... First come, first served. Like with supermarket beans.
yes, fine, but ..... if you've already got enough beans in your trolley, why are you stopped there right in front of the shelf that no-one else can get any?

You've been talking with tricky words. I have my opinion but you are STILL trying to cancel it even after saying I am entitled to it!

Our opinions differ, that is all. You are no more right than I am.

test of what you have said ....

Do you agree that you are no more right than I am? [because there is no one right answer when it comes to 'an opinion']
(Y/N)?
 
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