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Where do we most need new charging points?

6K views 92 replies 40 participants last post by  WonkoTheSaneUK 
#1 · (Edited)
So we all have local charge points, but where are they lacking?

Where do you go to regularly and think, we could really use charge points here!

What type of points do we need most and where, destination, rapid??

Supermarkets, right by the front door! 😉

Or does it not matter because we’re all charging overnight at home?
 
#2 ·
personally think we need more chargers that are slow/with more bays. Such as a small car park where you pay for example £1-2-3 per hour but theres "free" 3/7kw chargers there where you can leave your car plugged all day.
I find it that it sucks when i do work 100 miles away from home and cant charge while i work because all chargers have a max stay of 45-90 min.
 
#4 ·
personally think we need more chargers that are slow/with more bays. Such as a small car park where you pay for example £1-2-3 per hour but theres "free" 3/7kw chargers there where you can leave your car plugged all day.
I find it that it sucks when i do work 100 miles away from home and cant charge while i work because all chargers have a max stay of 45-90 min.
I thought that it was Rapid chargers that limited your stay and imposed excess charges!
This is because a Rapid charger will charge to 80% usually in less than 60 mins. Most Destination chargers, which are Fast, don't usually impose over-stay penalties and are the ones you should be looking for. Hope this helps?
To answer the thread, I would like to see more 22Kwh chargers installed as stand alone chargers.
 
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#3 ·
My local area joined the craze for new rapid chargers and there's now an unreasonable amount of them dotted around to the point where I feel any more would be a huge waste of money. Unfortunately going by the continued planning applications flooding in it looks like these companies disagree with me.

I want to see money spent on rows of 3kW posts at long stay parking places. Things like train stations, park and rides, car parks near offices and factories where people would be staying to work all day etc.
 
#7 ·
So we all have local charge points, but where are they lacking?

Where do you go to regularly and think, we could really use charge points here!
Whitby in North Yorkshire is a hugely popular destination for day trippers. It has a massive car park in the town centre but not one charge point. The nearest point is at Aldi which is 2 miles away from the centre and this is only 7kW. The nearest rapid charger is about 28 miles away. In fact that whole coastline: Saltburn, Staithes, Sandsend, Whitby, Robin Hood's Bay is dire in terms of charge points.

I can just about make a round trip to Whitby in my e-niro without charging but half a dozen charging bays in the main car park, at least 7kW, would be very welcome. :)
 
#15 ·
Absolutely - nothing worse than pulling into a service station with 20 miles left and having to cross your fingers, toes and eyes that the 1 working charger isn't in use/ICEd!

Whitby in North Yorkshire is a hugely popular destination for day trippers. It has a massive car park in the town centre but not one charge point. The nearest point is at Aldi which is 2 miles away from the centre and this is only 7kW. The nearest rapid charger is about 28 miles away. In fact that whole coastline: Saltburn, Staithes, Sandsend, Whitby, Robin Hood's Bay is dire in terms of charge points.

I can just about make a round trip to Whitby in my e-niro without charging but half a dozen charging bays in the main car park, at least 7kW, would be very welcome. :)
Also this, and the same on the Welsh coast. Hardly any chargers in the area anyway, but a few 7kw chargers at every beach carpark would be perfect. They are exactly the kind of places people want to drive to early in the morning, leave the car for the day while they enjoy the beach, and come back 5-6 hours later to drive home - in fact extend that to all national parks, woodland carparks etc.
 
#10 ·
The available chargers should match how long the average car parks there.

7kW pod points in Tesco? Completely pointless, they're impractical with the parking limits and I only use them because they're free.

3/7kW posts in residential areas so those without dedicated drives can charge overnight, ditto with work car parks. Elsewhere just rapids.
 
#12 ·
7kW pod points in Tesco? Completely pointless, they're impractical with the parking limits and I only use them because they're free.
This! Who stays in Tesco long enough to get enough charge to make it worthwhile. Home charging is so cheap i dont even bother with them even though they are free!
 
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#11 ·
Ultimately we will need a huge number of all types of charger if we are to move fully to electric. Destination chargers at 7kW are ok but as batteries are getting bigger and this will continue as bigger cars and vans are electrified, there will be a requirement for higher capacity chargers. There's no point in having an electric delivery van with 150 miles range if you can't fully charge it overnight. In Europe 3 phase charging is the norm with most cars capable of at least 11kW three phase chargers.. Most of these cars are fitted with 7kW single phase chargers for us as it's unusual to have single phase supplies to our houses. Tesla's have either 11kW or 16kW chargers fitted. In many of our cities with terraced housing it's not always going to be possible to park by a destination charger overnight and it might be preferable to use a rapid charger near your home.

Workplace car parks are obvious places for chargers as are most public car parks. We don't stay long enough in supermarkets to make it worthwhile plugging into 3kW chargers so they seem a bit pointless. 7kW should be a minimum.

Motorway services and major trunk roads need clusters of chargers preferably as high a power as possible to give them some future proofing. There is a lot of development work on battery chemistry that can charge faster and so higher power chargers will be required.

The world should be looking to develop a single mega charger standard for trucks so we don't end up with multiple formats like we currently have for cars.
 
#13 ·
Lamp posts, it will resolve so many "mileage anxiety" issues not to mention that every street has them. The network is already in place. It could be done very quickly and it is cost effective. Local councils can benefit hugely if they start charging even £0.05 p per kW. All the people without home charging will be happy with this and will promote even further the benefit from EV.
I personally know at least 10 people considering buying EV and the only thing stopping them for now is the charging.
 
#16 ·
Local councils can benefit hugely if they start charging even £0.05 p per kW. All the people without home charging will be happy with this and will promote even further the benefit from EV.
Very few houses have off-street parking in my area, including me. My council has just installed a 22kW charger at the top of my road. It’s in a resident parking zone, but you are allowed 4 hours to charge.

Unfortunately they want 30ppkWh. So at that tariff, I don’t think it will be used very often. And there are now two less much needed parking spaces for residents. I may have to put fake tail pipes on my Zoe for fear of reprisals 🤣
 
#14 ·
Car parks in and around town - 22kW for shoppers and 7kW for commuters with charges structured appropriately.
Commuter railway stations and works car parks - 7kW
Motorways and dual carriage service areas/restaurants - 100kW+
Suburbs - 7kW on a per-street basis using lamp posts
 
#17 ·
It's very simple really. Destination charger every parking spot, many rapid chargers at each service on trunk roads.

The most important ones are rapid chargers at trunk road services. There should ALWAYS be more chargers there than typical peak demand AT EACH LOCATION. They are the backbone infrastructure of making EV a true fossil fuel car replacement.


As driveway owner, the ONLY reason I still have a dirty diesel is due to lack of reliable rapid charging infrastructure at services. To me, EV daily usage was solved back in 2011, public infrastructure is optional. But to have EV truly replace ICE cars, only one type of infrastructure is required.
 
#19 ·
Motorway Service Stations - anyone should be able to pull off the motorway and know they've got rapid charging, food, drink and toilets all in one place - just as they do with a petrol or diesel car.
Anywhere people park for extended periods - train stations etc, and of course on-street for overnight charging.

So everywhere basically - but avoid the stupid restrictions like a 7kw charger with a 1hr stay limit!
 
#20 ·
What type of points do we need most and where, destination, rapid??
EVs are best recharged where they are parked overnight. We need large numbers of 7 or 11kW public chargers where people park overnight. Too many govt. funded posts are going in the wrong places.



Wales needs a few enroute rapid charger hubs. Recent additions improved North - South connections but it is still very sparse. Single rapids at hotels aren't good enough.

136569
 
#23 ·
EVs are best recharged where they are parked overnight. We need large numbers of 7 or 11kW public chargers where people park overnight. Too many govt. funded posts are going in the wrong places.

Wales needs a few enroute rapid charger hubs. Recent additions improved North - South connections but it is still very sparse. Single rapids at hotels aren't good enough.

View attachment 136569
yup, that illustrates my point perfectly. Thousands of people visiting the coast every day during the summer (obviously not at the moment due to covid), not a single destination charger, and very few rapids en route. It's put us off day-trips because the last thing you want after a long day at the beach is to have to spend 2 hours charging on the drive back.
 
#22 ·
Now if those trunk road rapid charging hubs can exist in meaning numbers in 2021 it would be great.

10 years after first mass market EV entered the market.........
 
#28 ·
In Scarborough there is one rapid at Lidl. next nearest rapids are Malton (2), Pickering (1) and Bridlington(1). I've moaned at the council about it before. Recently they sent out their long term plan to improve Scarborough generally, they are going to try and attract ev drivers by publicising the fact that there are chargers available. I pointed out to them that no-one gets in an ev without checking where are the available chargers, and therefore Scarborough/Whitby and Wales tend to get avoided by your average ev owner, but they don't seem to get it..
 
#29 ·
The future is not far away. Car battery size is increasing along with charge rates. No point in catering for todays puny batteries and charge rates. 350 kW chargers mean a 200 mile charge in less than 10 minutes when batteries catch up. Why bother with destination chargers and all the hassle attached to them. Not for me. I will wait for a couple of years. 10 minutes at an MSA is as much as I can stand on a journey.
 
#33 ·
That sounds good about Wales, not just for the Welsh but also for all those people who drive 9700 miles a year around the West Midlands in an ICE car just because they are too scared (probably with some justification to be fair) to do the 300 miles a year to and around Wales for the annual holiday. Multiple rapid chargers at Welshpool would be useful for that reason. We could do with one in the town of Tywyn - at the railway, supermarket, or in the sea front area. 22kW might be OK for that one.
 
#39 ·
It does not really matter when I am driving locally. I can get everywhere I need without even thinking about charging.
When I go away I wish there is at least:
20 fast chargers in at least one city centre car park in every city.
10 fast chargers in at least one town centre car park in every town.
10 fast chargers in at least one car park in every popular tourist location.
2 fast chargers in at least one village centre car park in every village.

At least 10 Rapids (100kW+) on every service station on main roads.
 
#40 ·
Driving a 24kWh Leaf with a mid-winter range (100% SOC to turtle) of not much more than 60 miles, I would like to see CHAdeMO DC Rapid charging locations along all main roads at least every 30 miles [a 60 mile 100% to turtle range becomes just 36 miles of 80% to 20% range].

OK, if the electricity supply to a location is limited (as may be the case in mid-Wales) then the occasional Rapid can have its charging rate restricted to say 20-25kW as 20kW is better than nothing (or 3.6kW on a destination type charging point), providing that the next Rapid charger in each direction can support faster charging for those with longer-range larger batteries.

Apart from sorting out mid-Wales, Rapid gaps which concern me are along the A49 from Shrewsbury to Lymm truck stop on the M6, and on the A53 from Shrewsbury to Stoke-on-Trent.
 
#42 ·
and on the A53 from Shrewsbury to Stoke-on-Trent.
Yeah, you'd think there'd be something in Market Drayton, but there's zilch, nada. In fact B####### all.

Hopefully Greene King will put a rapid in at the Gingerbread Man.

 
#43 ·
It’s been very interesting to read all the comments on here.

I have looked at a lot of the National trust locations over the last few months, with Covid there is a lot of outdoor places to go.

Not a single charge point at any of the destinations I have pondered!

Even large well well funded places, legoland Windsor for example, nothing!

Given that companies like Instavolt will pay such places to lease the parking spaces and install the charge points for free to me it’s ludicrous that this isn’t happening!

I’d happily pay 35p per kWh at such a destination to have charging facility, after all its still a lot cheaper than driving an ICE vehicle there.

Also from this thread it seems that the most lacking charge points are the simplest and easiest to install 3/7 kW destination charges for example at workplaces and on residential streets with no off street parking.

If the council installed 3kW lamp post points on my street that we’re plentiful enough that I could plug in overnight every night that’s all I would ever need!

My leaf charges at about 12 miles per hour on 3kW so a 12 hour overnight charge would do me just fine.
 
#45 ·
I have looked at a lot of the National trust locations over the last few months, with Covid there is a lot of outdoor places to go.

Not a single charge point at any of the destinations I have pondered!
So, whilst we've been slagging off the Welsh for taking so long for the penny to drop, National Trust Wales has for a long time partnered with Zero Carbon World, so many of their sites in Wales have both fast and 3 pin facilities. In some cases I know they're allied to the trust's own renewable generation. Add to that at Bodnant, you also get the plum parking space.
 
#46 ·
Yes, most people charge at home. Most slow chargers at supermarkets are little used but it seems obvious to me that much more facilities are needed where people park when they are at work. These can be as little as 3kW. Also hotels need slow overnight charging.
Most important though are rapid chargers every 50 or so miles ON the main trunk routes that accept contactless bank cards for payment. These sites should be designed for easy expansion as EV use increases.
Lampost and other similar chargers in residential areas could be something to look at in the future but it would be more productive to concentrate on workplace charging first when making provision for those without off road parking and the like.
 
#49 ·
North Wales, specifically Flintshire, seemed somewhat lacking on my recent work visit there. The one BP Chargemaster rapid near Mold is bust.

I’d like to see lots of destination chargers, 7kw most likely, in car parks. Cost is a significant factor too. I don’t mind paying more for rapids but high cost per kWh on fast chargers isn’t acceptable to me. What I’m finding so far is they’re either free or what I’d class as unreasonably expensive. Neither option seems sustainable.
 
#50 ·
North Wales, specifically Flintshire, seemed somewhat lacking on my recent work visit there. The one BP Chargemaster rapid near Mold is bust.
The BP near Mold has been fixed. Zap-Map reports it's in use at the time of this post.
We also have an Osprey rapid at a pub in Ewloe, a Geniepoint at Morrison's in Saltney (only 3 weeks old!) and a an Ecotricity at "The Singing Kettle" services on the A55.
Planning has recently been granted for a Supercharger hub (number of bays unknown) at a hotel on the edge of Flint.
 
#51 ·
I wonder if those people who authorise installation of charging points actually have EV's themselves. No point having 7kw ones at supermarket when you stay about an hour. They should plan how long someone is likely to stay there and need opportunistic charging e.g an all day out venue like National Trust, theme parks, hospitals, the beach, etc might be ok for 7kW. Supermarkets should be rapids. The government should pass law that all new public car parks or venues offering public parking should have a minimum % of spaces with chargers. They should be patrolled by these money fleecing companies that issue penalty notices in car parks to fine those ICE'ing a charging bay.

We can and will moan about it but needs government legislation and they're not interested in green initiatives at moment. If they were wouldn't have scrapped solar and cavity wall grants, reduced OLEV and EV new car grant.They also wouldn't drive big Jags or Range Rovers few mins to go from Downing Street to Parliament.
 
#55 ·
Although Rapid or even not-Rapid chargers near me are nice to see, they’re not really much use to me, or anyone with home charging. I want to be able to drive 300 miles knowing that there’s one or two places en route I can stop to recharge and eat overpriced food!

So we come back to Motorway Service Stations.

Last year we drove from Hastings to Portmerion - stopping at Beaconsfield and Telford services - stayed overnight then drove to Llanberis, stop on the way for some Diesel, took a train up Snowden and back down, then drove back down South with the same Services stops as the day before. Planning the same trip in a Zoe 50 is a pain in the rear, especially not knowing how much the Mountains will affect the range. I’m willing to try to work out a route with recharging plans a, b and c - but most people aren’t and that’s going to slow the take up of electric cars until you don’t have to plan anymore than you would in a “normal” car.

And while I’m ranting - they recently installed some chargers in a Seafront car park here. Great for day trippers you’d think! But they’re 7kw chargers with 1hr stay limit. What’s the point?
 
#56 ·
But they’re 7kw chargers with 1hr stay limit. What’s the point?
But why? :cry:

That's what, 20-25 miles at most?

Just because someone spends loads of money on something doesn't mean they know what they're doing. Look at HS2! Many places do things as a checkbox exercise i.e. because they're told to fulfil a quota. Often it's a pain and an after thought with no impetus to maintain them. This is why so many public chargers don't work. At one of our local sports centres there are 2 brand new Swarco rapid chargers still covered up. Swarco said they don't know when they will be active because it's too expensive to connect them with UKPN! Surely this should have been checked before installation. This is why we have a saying....beggars belief!
Sounds like the rapid at my local Morrisons, it's been there over a year, but only got switched on a couple of weeks ago
 
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