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I thought the UK had a ban on cars making a reversing noise.
 

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Driving through our small town it’s an absolute nightmare with the holiday pedestrians, the i3 is totally silent at the speeds we are limited by the crowds of holiday makers, the number of times we have had people just step out of a shop right into the road (the pavements are just tokens here) , they forget that although they are holiday makers some people actually live here and it’s a high street we shop in as well.

I believe the legislation for the July 2019 was delayed by a year or more. It will happen and it’ll be on all EVs from new (including the i3) regardless of when the vehicle was first homologated.
 

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Regs......”Compliance with the new requirements on AVAS becomes mandatory from 1st July 2019 for new types of pure electric vehicle and new types of hybrid electric vehicle that are capable of operating without their internal combustion engine running, and from 1st July 2021 for all new vehicles of such types. Any vehicles voluntarily equipped with an AVAS ahead of these dates must comply with either the new AVAS requirements introduced by (EU) No. 2017/1576 or the "basic" AVAS requirements that were already specified in (EU) No. 540/2014, at the vehicle manufacturer's choice.”

New types of EV and Hybrids from 1st July......then EVERY new EV/Hybrid sold from 1 July 2021 (which will include the i3)
 

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Driving through our small town it’s an absolute nightmare
Might be worth considering the idea someone had of putting a wireless doorbell ringer unit in the frunk with the button unit in the cabin - then you can signal your presence with a gentle sound - some of them have 50+ sounds to choose from I think - although I’m not sure if any would be what you’d ideally choose for this purpose.
 

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New types of EV and Hybrids from 1st July......then EVERY new EV/Hybrid sold from 1 July 2021 (which will include the i3)
So BMW can continue to charge extra for the AVAS until next year when they will have to bundle it. I wonder if the base price will go up to match?

I'm still trying to get used to the AVAS in my new Kona. When driving along slowly it is a bit too reminiscent of the 'stone in the brakes' sound my i3 used to occasionally make. The reversing beeps aren't nearly as annoying but I expect will surprise some pedestrians to hear beeps from a car.
 

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So BMW can continue to charge extra for the AVAS until next year when they will have to bundle it. I wonder if the base price will go up to match?

I'm still trying to get used to the AVAS in my new Kona. When driving along slowly it is a bit too reminiscent of the 'stone in the brakes' sound my i3 used to occasionally make. The reversing beeps aren't nearly as annoying but I expect will surprise some pedestrians to hear beeps from a car.
So they are abke to beep in reverse.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
So BMW can continue to charge extra for the AVAS until next year when they will have to bundle it. I wonder if the base price will go up to match?

I'm still trying to get used to the AVAS in my new Kona. When driving along slowly it is a bit too reminiscent of the 'stone in the brakes' sound my i3 used to occasionally make. The reversing beeps aren't nearly as annoying but I expect will surprise some pedestrians to hear beeps from a car.
Duncan, I’d be interested to hear how you are finding the Kona compared to the i3 pluses and minuses pls?
 

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So they are abke to beep in reverse.
Yes, at least I think so. I can't find any real rules for noises made when reversing. The UK AVAS regulations say the AVAS doesn't have to make a noise when reversing providing you have a compliant reversing warning sound:

For vehicles having a reversing sound warning device, it is not necessary for the AVAS to generate a sound whilst reversing, on condition that the reversing sound of the warning device complies with the requirements laid down in the second subparagraph of paragraph 6.2 and in paragraph 6.2.2 of UNECE Regulation No 138.
but all the UNECE regulation seems to say is that whle reversing there must be an overall sound of at least 47db(A). The additional rules about frequencies and maximum volume only apply when driving forwards.
 

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Yes, at least I think so. I can't find any real rules for noises made when reversing. The UK AVAS regulations say the AVAS doesn't have to make a noise when reversing providing you have a compliant reversing warning sound:

but all the UNECE regulation seems to say is that whle reversing there must be an overall sound of at least 47db(A). The additional rules about frequencies and maximum volume only apply when driving forwards.
Does 99, 3 (a) not restrict reversing beeps from a car?
134935
 

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Duncan, I’d be interested to hear how you are finding the Kona compared to the i3 pluses and minuses pls?
I'd love to be able to tell you too, but since getting it I've only had a few trips none of which were long enough to require public charging. Since 20th August my Kona has been sitting quietly in the garage as we went to France for our holidays (and took the 225xe) and now we're sitting out the quarantine at home.

i3 pluses: it was lighter and a tighter turning circle. A bit more space inside because there's nothing between the front seats. The Kona is more conventional in that regard with a centre console all the way between the front seats although it does have a gap underneath it.

Kona doesn't have a frunk, so nowhere to hide charging cables. The granny charger fits under the base of the boot but there's no way the 3-phase charging cable is going in there unless I also remove a pile of foam that I assume provides some sound insulation. You can get a third party frunk for the Kona but its €175 so I'll leave that a while.

I think the Kona headlights are a lot better but so far I've only had them on when driving in and out the garage so not sure.

Kona has 3 different forms of lane keep/departure assist/warning which is kind of confusing. The i3 had traffic jam assist which did auto steering only on dual carriageways and only under 35 mph so not very often. The Kona does auto steering whenever cruise control is engaged over 39mph and it thinks there are white lines marking the lane (the white line detection gets both false negatives and false positives). It's a bit odd and takes getting used to it but I think I like the effect on major roads. I do have to keep wiggling the steering wheel though as it gets upset if it thinks you aren't fighhting it. Not so great on minor roads where the white lines can appear and disappear without warning, I think in those cases the speed limiter will be more effective.

The Kona has a speed limiter. My i3 (with ACC) did not. Big win for town driving where cruise control isn't the greatest option.

Flappy paddles. I kept trying to pull these while on holiday driving the 225xe. Specifically pulling the left one makes regen come on really solidly. Fine that regen is adjustable, but why do I need two separate controls for braking, why can't the computer figure it out?

Centre display. Android auto. 10 inch touchscreen. wtf does Android auto only use two thirds of the screen? Also it is wired only which is a bit of a pity but better than not having it at all, eh BMW?
I haven't figured out whether I prefer the builtin satnav or Waze but I can chop and choose easily. My phone now sits on the wireless charger which is great though sometimes it doesn't seem to quite get the alignment. I had to buy a short right-angled USB cable as the socket doesn't have much clearance when you close the lid on the phone storage area.

Annoyingly the option to display nearby charging points doesn't have any option to filter to show DC only. I think it did on the 2018 model Kona so that's a bit of a disappointment. I wonder if zap map or similar could be persuaded to do an android auto compatible version of their apps?

Finally the two options that nobody thinks they would ever want until they have them and then they're essential: HUD and seat ventilation. The first of these I already knew I wanted (the 225xe has one), the second was more of a surprise but very useful in warm weather.

Range: I don't think the i3 will catch up here the chassis is perhaps too constrained, but having made one long trip at dual carriageway speeds (A34/A303) in pouring rain so wipers and heating I'm confident that the Kona will get enough for most trips. That journey was 171 miles covered, 94 miles remaining mostly with cruise set to 72mph. Trip counter reported an average 4.0 mi/kWh for that trip. At the start of that journey the GOM said 295 miles but 260 miles range seems realistic. Just to be clear, this was in heavy rain.

I've changed my charging pattern: with the i3 it was plug it in whenever I was home and forget about it. With the Kona I can fiddle. Before we went on holiday I plugged it in about once a week, it didn't seem worth the effort to do it at other times. Since then it has been sitting permanently plugged in but with the maximum charge set to 60%. Given the i3 doesn't actually have any problem with battery life I don't know if I actually need to limit the charging to anything other than 100% and there is always a risk I forget to fully charge before a long journey, but its a nice option.
The Kona bluelink app seems better than the i3's app (though I understand they've just rolled out a new version) but it still has strange quirks: remote locking or preconditioning tends to say on the app that it failed but does whatever you asked anyway. The recent journey history in the app doesn't know about battery stuff so just tells you time and distance, probably because they wrote it for the petrol cars.

Counting down the days until I can take my Kona for a drive again...
 

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Does 99, 3 (a) not restrict reversing beeps from a car? View attachment 134935
The version of this 1986 legislation on the government website says "original, as enacted". More recent legislation usually lets you choose between original and amended. I haven't found any relevant amendments but there are a lot. For example The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 alone lists 16 statutory instruments amending parts of the original.

Here's another amendment, not relevant to this discussion but still of interest. It's the one that lets you control your car using a mobile phone from outside the vehicle:
 

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Ok, I think I got it:
The AVAS shall automatically generate a sound in the minimum range of vehicle speed from start up to approximately 20 km/h and during reversing. Where the vehicle is equipped with an internal combustion engine that is in operation within the vehicle speed range defined above, the AVAS shall not generate a sound.

For vehicles having a reversing sound warning device, it is not necessary for the AVAS to generate a sound whilst reversing.
The vehicle construction regulations 99, 3(a) bans the use of a reversing alarm on anything other than commercial vehicles but the 2017 AVAS legislation is more recent and therefore overrides the vehicle construction legislation. It's the first paragraph here that matters, not the second one as that only applies to commercial vehicles.

The AVAS legislation says that a vehicle with AVAS must generate a sound when reversing. A beeping sound is a sound complying with the UNECE regulations regarding the volume and type of sound that AVAS may make when reversing. So it is not only legal it is required but it could be any noise of sufficient volume it doesn't have to be a beep. (It does however have to not be a horn, gong, bell or siren).

tl;dr; it may sound identical to a reversing alarm but it isn't a reversing alarm when it's an AVAS.
 

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Might be worth considering the idea someone had of putting a wireless doorbell ringer unit in the frunk with the button unit in the cabin - then you can signal your presence with a gentle sound - some of them have 50+ sounds to choose from I think - although I’m not sure if any would be what you’d ideally choose for this purpose.
Might have been me....I have had one fitted for three years now, but unfortunately the silly sods wandering along without a care in the world very often either don’t hear it or ignore it maybe thinking it’s a near by mobile phone or something, I think the problem is the human ear has become attuned to the sound of an engine, however quiet.
 

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Driving through our small town it’s an absolute nightmare with the holiday pedestrians, the i3 is totally silent at the speeds we are limited by the crowds of holiday makers, the number of times we have had people just step out of a shop right into the road (the pavements are just tokens here) , they forget that although they are holiday makers some people actually live here and it’s a high street we shop in as well.
Yes there's plenty of times and places where an i3 will be quieter than the background noise, particularly in towns/cities. There are plenty of ICE cars quieter than background noise too at low speeds.
I think it's a question of people learning. At any speed where an impact might be likely to be painful the car isn't silent at all, and at speeds below that people just have to realise they might have to pay attention.
I've had to crawl along behind people engrossed in conversations in petrol cars let alone the i3.
 

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Yes you ideally need something like the doorbell but with customisable sounds - so when you press the button it emits the sound of an engine of your choosing at just above tick over.
Or a recording of Jeremy Clarkson shouting "GET OUT OF THE WAY!"

 

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Last year I heard about the legislation. It seems it only applies to “new models”. The i3 is effectively a 2013 design so does not apply. I specified the pedestrian warning sound, bit like a flying saucer sound :) You can turn it off, but it turns on each time the car is restarted. You can turn it so it stays in the mode you set it to using the “bimmercode” coding app I.e. turn it so it does not come on on restart. However the pedestrian warning noise is still far quieter than an ICE car, in the car you can’t even hear it and outside the car it is a quiet space age hum.
 

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Last year I heard about the legislation. It seems it only applies to “new models”. The i3 is effectively a 2013 design so does not apply.
Not quite true, the regs will apply to the i3 from 1st July 2021, all EVs registered after that date require fitment of the device regardless of when they were homologated.
 
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