Wi-fi on the electric highway

Hitstirrer said:

The user still has to have data available to use the Wifi.

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Eh? No, the point of the charger acting as a wifi access point is that the user just needs a wifi capable device, be that phone or wifi tablet. So you can now get a £20 phone to keep in the glove box and not bother with a SIM card at all. This compares reasonably with the £20 a lot of the other providers will charge you for the RFID card except you don't have to keep the RFID charged.

My doctor's surgery has a touch screen with a set of questions:
- date of birth
- first letter of surname
Add a pin number to that and it would be pretty secure.

Orrery said:

My doctor's surgery has a touch screen with a set of questions:
- date of birth
- first letter of surname
Add a pin number to that and it would be pretty secure.

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Not really. If it's like the one at my surgery its for checking in to an appointment and allows you to do that without being able to tell the names of other people also seeing the doctor or nurse. It doesn't stop you checking in for someone else's appointment as you're prompted at each stage for the required information.

38,000 Electric Highway customers. That means over 100 for each possible month, day combination. So guess a random year, month, day and common letter and you probably get a hit. Now guess a pin number from the most commonly used pin numbers (people are really bad at setting random PINs) and you have a 1 in 15 chance of success. If it fails just try again with a new date and letter.

If anyone was wondering if the wifi can be used for web browsing while at these rapids. Afraid not. I joined the ecotricity wifi hotspot at Leicester forest east today and its locked down for browsing.

On the topic of the same ssid for all ecotricity pumps. That's actually not a good move. You would only use it while at one with a dodgy signal. I sit on my phone and browse the web while charging. If it auto logged me on to their network for all points, irrespective of whether I have a good signal then I would have to "forget" the network regularly in my phone.

Andybliss said:

On the topic of the same ssid for all ecotricity pumps. That's actually not a good move. You would only use it while at one with a dodgy signal. I sit on my phone and browse the web while charging. If it auto logged me on to their network for all points, irrespective of whether I have a good signal then I would have to "forget" the network regularly in my phone.

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Yes, that's a fair point although Android (recentish versions at least) will detect that the wifi doesn't route outside and will automatically switch back to using the mobile data instead. In fact that could be a problem if you're trying to connect to start a charge as it might ignore the dodgy wifi and try to use the dodgy mobile instead.

On a related note, can anyone say which Ecotricity pumps actually have coverage problems? it might be useful to have a crowd-sourced list of dodgy pumps. I haven't found any so far but I expect I've just not used a wide enough range of Electric Highway locations.

Hitstirrer said:

I just don't get the objection to the charger itself having a built in 'smart phone' to use on its own built in WiFi instead of requiring people to rock up and try to log on using a variety of phones and an app. The only thing that might have been improved is a better data signal. The user still has to have data available to use the Wifi. And a working phone. Both could be avoided by using the charging unit, that is already on line, to complete the transaction.

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I should imagine the primary problem with this particular proposal would that it would be impossible to guarantee the security of it to an acceptable extent. To implement it, you'd be asking people to enter their card details (or giving them the ability to enter them by editing/adding a card to their account) on an unmonitored, unsupervised device. It would be impossible to guarantee that device is secure from hacking/keyloggers/determined people so would probably not be PCI-DSS acceptable, or might attract unwanted attention from scammers.

Duncan said:

Yes, that's a fair point although Android (recentish versions at least) will detect that the wifi doesn't route outside and will automatically switch back to using the mobile data instead. In fact that could be a problem if you're trying to connect to start a charge as it might ignore the dodgy wifi and try to use the dodgy mobile instead.

On a related note, can anyone say which Ecotricity pumps actually have coverage problems? it might be useful to have a crowd-sourced list of dodgy pumps. I haven't found any so far but I expect I've just not used a wide enough range of Electric Highway locations.

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I suppose the best approach might be to setup a web intranet/extranet app which effectively becomes the equivalent of their hotspot login page, allowing users to login and start a charge to their default account payment card without opening the app. Then iPhone, presumably the other platforms/browsers would simply think they were logging into the wifi network and open the 'login to network' browser. Would be pretty convenient.

AndyK said:

I suppose the best approach might be to setup a web intranet/extranet app which effectively becomes the equivalent of their hotspot login page, allowing users to login and start a charge to their default account payment card without opening the app. Then iPhone, presumably the other platforms/browsers would simply think they were logging into the wifi network and open the 'login to network' browser. Would be pretty convenient.

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EcoT said they were going to produce a web app so anyone with a web browser could start a charge, this was mainly to get over the lack of an app for windows phones, but they say a lot of things.

richtrash said:

EcoT said they were going to produce a web app so anyone with a web browser could start a charge, this was mainly to get over the lack of an app for windows phones, but they say a lot of things.

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I dunno, compared to some organisations they aren't even that good at saying things

I'm sorry but I'm old school. I just want to turn up, ID myself via a pre-registered payment system and draw down some current. Having a dispenser that has a copper wire link via old fashioned BT wires, or a satellite link that goes via Jupiter doesn't impress me much. I just want to ID myself by keying in, or presenting a card to the dumb machine, and starting a charge. Anything short of this simple approach will fail. How long do we have to state this obvious fact before some notice is taken of us.

So if I was not a regular on this forum, how would I have known that I can use Wifi to get around a mobile connection problem? And how would I have know what the password would be? I suppose I could have called the helpline and they would have told me, but then we are back to the 24 hour support issue again, and once on the phone they could just start the charge remotely anyway.

Hitstirrer said:

I'm sorry but I'm old school. I just want to turn up, ID myself via a pre-registered payment system and draw down some current. Having a dispenser that has a copper wire link via old fashioned BT wires, or a satellite link that goes via Jupiter doesn't impress me much. I just want to ID myself by keying in, or presenting a card to the dumb machine, and starting a charge. Anything short of this simple approach will fail. How long do we have to state this obvious fact before some notice is taken of us.

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It's probable that ecotricity believe there is no commercial value in this. Now, obviously they could monetise this by selling a new rfid solution, to those who prefer to not use apps.

I supppse it comes down to how many want rfid, and how much they would be willing to pay for it, vs dev costs.

I suspect not too many would pay for it, at a price that reasonable. 100 people paying 20 quid doesn't go very far at all.

Obviously just how many people would pay, and at what cost is the argument. I suspect ecotricity view is these numbers fall below a threshold.

Philip Bowden said:

So if I was not a regular on this forum, how would I have known that I can use Wifi to get around a mobile connection problem? And how would I have know what the password would be? I suppose I could have called the helpline and they would have told me, but then we are back to the 24 hour support issue again, and once on the phone they could just start the charge remotely anyway.

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"TWITTER" is how EH communicate with their customers. Not the best way in my opinion, I had to open an account and work out how it works


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Doesn't this all come down to the fact that we need a single method of paying for our charge on all networks. Until this happens there will be a huge swathe of the public who will be put off taking on an EV.

Andybliss said:

It's probable that ecotricity believe there is no commercial value in this. Now, obviously they could monetise this by selling a new rfid solution, to those who prefer to not use apps.

I supppse it comes down to how many want rfid, and how much they would be willing to pay for it, vs dev costs.

I suspect not too many would pay for it, at a price that reasonable. 100 people paying 20 quid doesn't go very far at all.

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There seem to be a lot of people on the forum (me included) who are unwilling to use Eco T now the app is used, due to perceived reliability issues. I have yet to give the app a go, but am completely mystified as to why a system that worked reasonably well was replaced with one that is obviously less reliable.

Even if the poxy app were to be 99pc reliable, that is still a lot lot worse than the reliability of an ICE car. The only people who will tolerate this are going to be "enthusiasts", ie nobody in the main stream of motoring.

I, and I suspect many others, would be willing to pay money for a RELIABLE means of charging EVs away from base.

OOh, I used capitals

I have a trip to Northumberland to my wive's aunt's funeral to plan (in a Zoe). If there was one way to pay for all chargers I might just risk it, but as it is - it's a hire car or the train.

PS It seems that the agreement between Renault and Enterprise is an urban myth. Unless you know different. All I know is when I asked Enterprise the operator said, 'I don't know about that' and when I spoke to my dealer this morning he knew nothing about it either.

Andybliss said:

It's probable that ecotricity believe there is no commercial value in this. Now, obviously they could monetise this by selling a new rfid solution, to those who prefer to not use apps.

I supppse it comes down to how many want rfid, and how much they would be willing to pay for it, vs dev costs.

I suspect not too many would pay for it, at a price that reasonable. 100 people paying 20 quid doesn't go very far at all.

Obviously just how many people would pay, and at what cost is the argument. I suspect ecotricity view is these numbers fall below a threshold.

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I'll give them a £20 a month direct debit if they give me an RFID card that lets me have unlimited free charges...

Surrey Plum said:

There seem to be a lot of people on the forum (me included) who are unwilling to use Eco T now the app is used, due to perceived reliability issues.

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and

Surrey Plum said:

I have yet to give the app a go, but am completely mystified as to why a system that worked reasonably well was replaced with one that is obviously less reliable.

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I've been using the Electric Highway since it was invented and have had no issues using the App, but a few back in the days when RFID cards were used (with EH and Chargemaster). I also remember plenty of complaints on this forum from others about RFID cards failing to be recognised. An RFID-based system means the chargers have to periodically download/update white-lists of valid RFID cards and that was equally problematic in areas of ... wait for it ... poor mobile reception. Sound familiar?

I only mention this to remind people that RFID cards are not necessarily a panacea.

Anyway, Ecotricity/EH are clearly doing their best to remedy the situation for problematic chargers. They can do this now because they've gone the App route and are more in control of the tech, rather than relying on a third-party RFID card services provider. Good for them, I say (from the safety of my bunker)! :notworthy:

Hitstirrer said:

The user still has to have data available to use the Wifi.

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If the pump doesn't have a data connection it switches to free vend.

andrew*debbie said:

If the pump doesn't have a data connection it switches to free vend.

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Yes. But why can't the pump have its own smart phone already logged on waiting for me to arrive and identify myself and start a charge ? What is the advantage of every driver having to log on using their own phone ? I have been told that a £20 phone without a sim will work. Why cant each pump have it's own £20 phone ? And then if there is a glitch go to free vend ?