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Discussion Starter #1
After four years with a Mercedes C350e, I’ve finally graduated to a proper EV. The Merc went back today, to be replaced by a Model 3.

I know it’s not the end of the world if a PHEV runs out of battery, but trying to eke out 6 miles in the winter or 12 miles in the summer has been a source of frustration and in a small way a cause of anxiety. I have a regular 20 mile round trip that I try to complete with the minimum charge remaining. How far can I make it on battery? When should I let the engine come on so I can use the battery when it counts?

Returning home at the end of a long trip, I’d be driving on petrol through the town and guessing when I can flip to battery-only to make it the rest of the way home without the engine coming on.

And finally, although not range anxiety, forgetting to switch to battery-only on a short errand, accidentally activating the engine (which sounds awful in the C350e) and wondering how long it’s going to take for the damn thing to shut down again.

I loved the C350e at the beginning. It taught me to charge. It taught me that wafting along serenely on battery power was so much better than the rattle and response lag and smell of a combustion engine, even if the gearbox was in the way and the battery was tiny and the efficiency made an e-tron seem like the Gossamer Albatross. It was by far the fastest car I’d “owned” (leased, actually). But the four years didn’t half start to drag as I browsed this forum and counted the months until I could graduate from EV kindergarten. This is all nonsense, of course - I’m lucky to have had the Merc. It’s pretty near the top of my driving history, but the more I wanted a BEV, the more anxious it made me. My overall economy wasn’t much better than in several diesels or the Prius I had a while back.

So will my anxiety reduce with 200 miles of electric range and no fossil backup, compared to 10 miles of electric range and 400 miles of fossil backup? The last long journey I did was a round trip to a location within 10 miles of Scotch Corner. I sat in the coffee shop doing some work and thinking “I always aim to arrive early, so there’s no drawback to stopping for a charge. I never drive more than 300 miles in a day, so I’ll possibly never need to stop more than once on a long journey“. I considered the e-Niro before I ordered the Model 3. Even with its prodigious range, it might have left me to deal with the slightly daunting public charging network. Now that I have a Tesla, I don’t think charging holds any reliability or similar fears. The worst I can imagine is potentially needing to queue at a busy station. How often am I going to suffer range anxiety - maybe never?
 

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'19 BMW i3 120Ah / '20 Hyundai Kona 64kWh
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In my experience, even with a non-Tesla EV with a pretty short range by current standards, there has been no real range anxiety - just the odd charger anxiety when nearing a single unit charger location far from any others and hoping it is working.

In the 14 months I’ve been driving a BEV, the charging network relevant to me has improved substantially - just in the past few weeks my regular trip up the A1 has been transformed in terms of the chance for charger anxiety, which has now been practically eliminated on that journey - and so with it any anxiety about range.

With a Tesla, the likelihood of range anxiety is obviously even less. I’d still recommend using abetterrouteplanner.com though - especially given the integration with Teslas.
 

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Striving for a greener planet
Tesla Model 3 LR AWD 19" FSD; Renault Zoe Q210 22kWh
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When I picked up our Model 3 (LR AWD) it was a revelation. The ride was unbelievable.

I'd be lying if I said that on my first long journey I didn't get range anxiety. 260 mi to Cornwall. On paper the car does it without stopping but I planned a stop. No way I could do that without peeing.
First and only stop at Darts Farm SC Exeter. Car said I'd get there with 20%. If I had the balls of a YouTuber I would of said "No problem" and hit the road. But I have a misses that would probably rip me a new one if anything went wrong or we ran out of electrons.
Getting our of town to the motor way I was a bag of nerves trying to be as economical with the throttle as much as possible with all the stop start. I was constantly checking the predicted % I'd get to the SC at Darts Farm Exeter. If I went above 70 mph the predicted range would drop to 17% and then 15%. Too much for me so I'd back off and cruise at 70 mph. Made it with 19% I think. SC worked perfectly. Now I do a quick pee stop at Fleet Southbound and plug into the Electric Highway point there for 20 or so mins (normally on AC as CCS is naturally not working) and that just gives me that little bit extra to do 77 mph for the rest of the journey.

Then came the issue of charging while in Newquay. All the rapid points failed. Polar one wasn't on, one Genie point just kept faulting and the other had a frozen screen but still faulted (turns out if I just lifted the cable on handshake there was a good chance I would of got a charge). This sent the butterflies raging as the options kept dwindling. I managed to plug in via the supplied blue plug on the holiday park where we had just bought a caravan. One of the site sales men (who had just sold us our 'van) let us run off one of the hitch points at 4 kW.

I have now installed a blue plug off of our caravan fuse board so have a nice tidy set up when we arrive and can charge at 4 kW, as you should, when we sleep. Since then no range anxiety as pretty much fully charged by the morning.

Almost all of my journeys are easily returnable without a charge but once I move from the safety of the SC network and stay at places without destination charging the familiar pang of anxiety is still there in the background even though in reality there is always an option to charge up nearby, it's just whether it's working or not.
 

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Yeah i've never had "range" anxiety only "charger" anxiety - can I find it, will it be blocked, will it be broken, do i have the right RFID card, will it actually start, will it crap out immediately, will it crap out as soon as i've walked away. All these things have happened to me and it sucks. Tesla Superchargers should negate 90%+ of that, both in the UK and in Europe.

I've gone for the e-Niro, hoping it's the right choice.
 

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Yeah i've never had "range" anxiety only "charger" anxiety - can I find it, will it be blocked, will it be broken, do i have the right RFID card, will it actually start, will it crap out immediately, will it crap out as soon as i've walked away. All these things have happened to me and it sucks. Tesla Superchargers should negate 90%+ of that, both in the UK and in Europe.

I've gone for the e-Niro, hoping it's the right choice.
This is very like the early days of the petrol ICE. Lots of different brands, often dodgy quality, hand operated pumps that delivered about 10 miles range per minute, no availability outside of 9-5 Monday to Friday. But people coped and other modes of transport reduced significantly.
 

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Leaf lover
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Yeah i've never had "range" anxiety only "charger" anxiety - can I find it, will it be blocked, will it be broken, do i have the right RFID card, will it actually start, will it crap out immediately, will it crap out as soon as i've walked away. All these things have happened to me and it sucks. Tesla Superchargers should negate 90%+ of that, both in the UK and in Europe.

I've gone for the e-Niro, hoping it's the right choice.
I left all that behind when I got the BMW i3 94Ah REX. But I still want a Tesla and am 15 months away from handing back the i3 (I extended the lease to 5 years).
Is there such a thing as Tesla anxiety? cause I think I've got it.
 

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I dont think theres a need to compare the early days of petrol with the current charging for EVs. After all ICE were replacing horses.
Edd Beesley has it exactly right but things will only change when subsidies are stopped and all chargers have to accept contactless payment. You would then quickly find what the sustainable price of electricity is and we would have to get used to it. In the end, this is more likely to give us a reliable and effective network.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
When I picked up our Model 3 (LR AWD) it was a revelation. The ride was unbelievable.

I'd be lying if I said that on my first long journey I didn't get range anxiety. 260 mi to Cornwall. On paper the car does it without stopping but I planned a stop. No way I could do that without peeing.
First and only stop at Darts Farm SC Exeter. Car said I'd get there with 20%. If I had the balls of a YouTuber I would of said "No problem" and hit the road. But I have a misses that would probably rip me a new one if anything went wrong or we ran out of electrons.
Getting our of town to the motor way I was a bag of nerves trying to be as economical with the throttle as much as possible with all the stop start. I was constantly checking the predicted % I'd get to the SC at Darts Farm Exeter. If I went above 70 mph the predicted range would drop to 17% and then 15%. Too much for me so I'd back off and cruise at 70 mph. Made it with 19% I think. SC worked perfectly. Now I do a quick pee stop at Fleet Southbound and plug into the Electric Highway point there for 20 or so mins (normally on AC as CCS is naturally not working) and that just gives me that little bit extra to do 77 mph for the rest of the journey.

Then came the issue of charging while in Newquay. All the rapid points failed. Polar one wasn't on, one Genie point just kept faulting and the other had a frozen screen but still faulted (turns out if I just lifted the cable on handshake there was a good chance I would of got a charge). This sent the butterflies raging as the options kept dwindling. I managed to plug in via the supplied blue plug on the holiday park where we had just bought a caravan. One of the site sales men (who had just sold us our 'van) let us run off one of the hitch points at 4 kW.

I have now installed a blue plug off of our caravan fuse board so have a nice tidy set up when we arrive and can charge at 4 kW, as you should, when we sleep. Since then no range anxiety as pretty much fully charged by the morning.

Almost all of my journeys are easily returnable without a charge but once I move from the safety of the SC network and stay at places without destination charging the familiar pang of anxiety is still there in the background even though in reality there is always an option to charge up nearby, it's just whether it's working or not.
Good point about staying away from home with unknown or unreliable charging. I’m off to Center Parcs at Whinfell in August and it doesn’t look like they have a charger on site. I can get there with 60% charge without much bother and Tebay isn’t far away, but I’m not expecting any anxiety - just a little inconvenience. We’ll see.
 

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Kona PremSe64k 2020+bluelink +ohme
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Range anxiety can, and I'd argue, should be alleviated by
a) getting to know your vehicle using short range journeys and charging as needed.
b) the next is to plan your longer journey. What I mean by that is using apps/websites like a better route planner which can give you clear ideas of when you will need to charge at say 10 or 20% for your vehicle and your journey. With that planning done ahead of a journey using apps like plugshare and zapmap to help you choose the actual charging points at the time can be a great boon.
c) the third is to have someone with you in the car for those first longer journeys. This allows one person to concentrate on the driving whilst the other person can concentrate on charging points.

Once you have these under your belt then a driver on their own can happily drive a longer journey with realistic ideas for when they will need or prefer to charge.

One final point. Choosing a charging point is often not so much about NEED to charge as PREFER to charge. What I mean by that is knowing the charging curve for your car and the sweet spot for charging quickly as well as charging point locations that are reliable, cheap and you can do other things at, including relaxing!
 

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One of the main excitements of a long journey is when you arrive at a charger and wonder if it's going to work. You plug in, start the process, then watch the screen with bated breath as it goes through all its checks - tick, tick, tick, tick... Then finally a sense of elation when it finally starts charging. Or not.
 

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'19 BMW i3 120Ah / '20 Hyundai Kona 64kWh
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Yep, range anxiety is fairy easy to eliminate (unless maybe you are driving something with <100 mile range), but the problem has been that until recently you just can’t really
One of the main excitements of a long journey is when you arrive at a charger and wonder if it's going to work. You plug in, start the process, then watch the screen with bated breath as it goes through all its checks - tick, tick, tick, tick... Then finally a sense of elation when it finally starts charging. Or not.
The excitement begins before you even arrive as you try to check PlugShare and/or Zapmap on your phone whilst trying to keep an i3 in a straight line...!
 

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Yep, range anxiety is fairy easy to eliminate (unless maybe you are driving something with <100 mile range), but the problem has been that until recently you just can’t really


The excitement begins before you even arrive as you try to check PlugShare and/or Zapmap on your phone whilst trying to keep an i3 in a straight line...!
Honesty Officer I was not making a phone call just checking Zapmap.

Not going to go down well, is it?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Range anxiety can, and I'd argue, should be alleviated by
a) getting to know your vehicle using short range journeys and charging as needed.
b) the next is to plan your longer journey. What I mean by that is using apps/websites like a better route planner which can give you clear ideas of when you will need to charge at say 10 or 20% for your vehicle and your journey. With that planning done ahead of a journey using apps like plugshare and zapmap to help you choose the actual charging points at the time can be a great boon.
c) the third is to have someone with you in the car for those first longer journeys. This allows one person to concentrate on the driving whilst the other person can concentrate on charging points.

Once you have these under your belt then a driver on their own can happily drive a longer journey with realistic ideas for when they will need or prefer to charge.

One final point. Choosing a charging point is often not so much about NEED to charge as PREFER to charge. What I mean by that is knowing the charging curve for your car and the sweet spot for charging quickly as well as charging point locations that are reliable, cheap and you can do other things at, including relaxing!
I’ve been using Zap-Map and abetterrouteplanner for ages now. Slightly obsessively.

If I’d chosen the e-Niro, I’d not be keen on running it down to 10% before charging. And I guess the superchargers are too far apart to pick and choose much. I have a way to go before I’m copying Mr Nyland’s attempts to achieve 200kW charging.
 

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'19 BMW i3 120Ah / '20 Hyundai Kona 64kWh
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Honesty Officer I was not making a phone call just checking Zapmap.

Not going to go down well, is it?
It was a joke - but the point is a valid one - every EV other than Tesla (AFAIK) doesn’t yet have a reliable and safe way of informing the driver whether a charger you are heading towards is a) working and b) currently available or likely to be available when you get there.

Could be solved to a large extent if Apple and/or Google allow Zap Map & similar into Car Play / Android Auto.

Ideally of course, it shouldn’t need to be something that is of concern to drivers at all - you should just be able to confidently turn up at any rapid charger and within a few minutes at most be plugged into a working units.
 

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doesn’t yet have a reliable and safe way of informing the driver whether a charger you are heading towards is a) working and b) currently available or likely to be available when you get there.
Could be solved to a large extent if Apple and/or Google allow Zap Map & similar into Car Play / Android Auto.
It could be an improvement but not a silver bullet. It could certainly relay live information about the current status of the charge point.
With our current model of one or two DC Rapids at each location how can any system know how things will change during your journey? Even if the charge points are empty five other cars could be heading there slightly ahead of you (who may not be using the Apple/Google system or allowing the data sharing)? Or the cars already there could be going to reach 80% before you get there but it cannot account for the numpty driver who is just going to leave their car there while they finish their lunch.
 

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I’m off to Cemeter Parcs at Whinfell in August and it doesn’t look like they have a charger on site.
I understand there are chargers onsite for the Centre Park's own vehicles - if you can persuade them to let you use them.
 

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It could be an improvement but not a silver bullet. It could certainly relay live information about the current status of the charge point.
With our current model of one or two DC Rapids at each location how can any system know how things will change during your journey? Even if the charge points are empty five other cars could be heading there slightly ahead of you (who may not be using the Apple/Google system or allowing the data sharing)? Or the cars already there could be going to reach 80% before you get there but it cannot account for the numpty driver who is just going to leave their car there while they finish their lunch.
We had similar situation travelling from London to York. Last charge of day at Worksop Bannantynes (instavolt) needed 80% in my leaf for last 65-70 miles. Pulled into car park just ahead of an i3 and surprisingly one of the two stalls was covered and not working. Managed to get there just in front of the i3 and started charge.
i3 driver had travelled 6 miles from home to get the free top up (early instavolt was free) he waited in the cafe and I let him know when we finished.
Dont suppose he uses it now at 35p Kwh.
 

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Yeah i've never had "range" anxiety only "charger" anxiety - can I find it, will it be blocked, will it be broken, do i have the right RFID card, will it actually start, will it crap out immediately, will it crap out as soon as i've walked away. All these things have happened to me and it sucks. Tesla Superchargers should negate 90%+ of that, both in the UK and in Europe.

I've gone for the e-Niro, hoping it's the right choice.
Ive been using my eSoul 2020 on a few 100+ mile journeys and I just felt the RA evaporate.
I knew i had enough not just to get there and back but there again and maybe back.
So, if i stop enroute and i can charge, great, if the chargers broken, well theres going to be another one enroute and if i cant i can destination charge.
in this weather on eco setting i could easily get a real 300 miles and more. i drove in 'normal 'on a 120 miles 90% motorway trip this week at 70mph, in 30dec C weather with air con set to 18, and extrapolating, the range would have been about 275 miles.
I'm sure you'll be very happy with the Niro even if its not as stylish as the Soul. :LOL:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I’ve discovered phantom drain anxiety. 11 miles since yesterday evening...

To switch Sentry Mode off, or not to switch Sentry Mode off? That is the question.
 
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