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Found a good article in bbc.com

The view that battery-powered heavy goods lorries can't compete with diesel is being challenged by new research.

Extra batteries will increase the cost.
Fast charging networks will keep less cost on batteries.

"For climate change, this is an important issue. Around 7% of global carbon emissions are generated by heavy transportation trucks."

Electric lorries manufacturing will depend on available fast charging facilities in key locations.

When we compare hydrogen fuel cell and batteries, battery prices go down faster.
 

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This article: Climate change: Electric trucks 'can compete with diesel ones'

It's an interesting one. HGV drivers need to stop every 4.5 hours for a rest stop, so you would only need their batteries to last 5 hours (max) at 56mph (max), and have the infrastructure in place for them to be able to charge fully during their rest stops.

No idea what size batteries they'd need to pull a full load, but the power requirements would be huge to charge a few trucks at a time.
 

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There's only 500,000 trucks circulating around the UK at any one time, of various classes, compared to approx 40,000,000 vans and cars. While individually they are large pollution emitters, getting rid of 25% of the cars and vans would have a far greater benefit to the environment and the populations quality of life than focusing on them, especially if the infrastructure would require massive resources being thrown at it.
What hauliers, the government and associated users do need to focus on is getting the best use out of the fleet of trucks. In other words, using them predominantly for the trunking work, between major hubs, but then relying on vastly reduced emitters from the regional hubs to local hubs and then again even lower emitters for the "last mile" delivery, especially as internet based consumption continues to grow at a pace.
 

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There's only 500,000 trucks circulating around the UK at any one time, of various classes, compared to approx 40,000,000 vans and cars. While individually they are large pollution emitters, getting rid of 25% of the cars and vans would have a far greater benefit to the environment and the populations quality of life than focusing on them, especially if the infrastructure would require massive resources being thrown at it.
What hauliers, the government and associated users do need to focus on is getting the best use out of the fleet of trucks. In other words, using them predominantly for the trunking work, between major hubs, but then relying on vastly reduced emitters from the regional hubs to local hubs and then again even lower emitters for the "last mile" delivery, especially as internet based consumption continues to grow at a pace.
Replacing all the thousands of white vans with electric equivalent seems like a priority compared to HGVs in terms of local environmental improvements, discuss.
 

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Replacing all the thousands of white vans with electric equivalent seems like a priority compared to HGVs in terms of local environmental improvements, discuss.
It's not even thousands, we're already over a million extra vans on the roads to cater for online shopping, the vast majority, of course, being diesel.
 

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It's not even thousands, we're already over a million extra vans on the roads to cater for online shopping, the vast majority, of course, being diesel.
So of course it's a priority, because a white van does on average what "15" times the daily mileage of the average car. That would a lot of NOx, CO2, noise etc removed from the environment. Depots would need some serious investment, eg 10 X 100kW chargers?
 

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There's only 500,000 trucks circulating around the UK at any one time, of various classes, compared to approx 40,000,000 vans and cars. While individually they are large pollution emitters, getting rid of 25% of the cars and vans would have a far greater benefit to the environment and the populations quality of life than focusing on them, especially if the infrastructure would require massive resources being thrown at it.
What hauliers, the government and associated users do need to focus on is getting the best use out of the fleet of trucks. In other words, using them predominantly for the trunking work, between major hubs, but then relying on vastly reduced emitters from the regional hubs to local hubs and then again even lower emitters for the "last mile" delivery, especially as internet based consumption continues to grow at a pace.
It's worth remembering that an individual truck is moving for a large proportion of its time. I believe that some, driving trunk routes, only stop for long enough to change trailers and drivers and run 24hrs a day.

Your 40m private cars spend 90% of their time parked.
 

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It's worth remembering that an individual truck is moving for a large proportion of its time. I believe that some, driving trunk routes, only stop for long enough to change trailers and drivers and run 24hrs a day.
I think that varies quite a bit depending on exactly what sort of truck your looking at.

Some are, as you describe, always on the road. However many are used a bit more like a delivery van, multi-drop work during work hours then parked at the depot overnight.

As with everything, lets start by electrifying what works, rather than picking out what doesnt work.

I think also, the fuel savings on commercial side will be the driving factor. Fuel costs are a massive chunk of the operating costs of road haulage, and the numbers are very easy to figure out. Once that cost tips in favour of electric, we will absolutely see a big rollout.
 

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100KW chargers wouldn't touch the sides.

If we assume a decent EV car has about 200hp to give it very good performance, and a "normal" hatchback car has about 150hp for similar performance (EV's are heavier).

The average Truck is about 500hp to tow the big trailers - so lets say 2.5 times the power. Plus my car barely needs the throttle pushing to make decent progress - most trucks are using 80-90% of their power up steep hills etc.

So my car, at 70 will do about 3 hours on a 64KW battery. So a Truck using probably 4 x the "capability" of it's 2.5 times bigger motor is using say 10x the energy of my car? So to get 5 hrs running out of it, you would need something around 640KWh battery to run for 3 hrs or 800Kwh to run for about 8hrs.

Now the one massive flaw in this guess above is that Electric Motors produce way more torque - so I may be way off, and a truck might be able to use a much smaller electric motor than I think. Also, the potential regen from a 54 tonne truck would be massive provided you could harness all that power going back to the battery.


To recharge, in the short downtime trucks have (they rarely sit idle for long) I think you'd need 500KW 800V or even 1000V chargers to get anything remotely useable.

However - on the flip side, Fuel is the biggest operating cost of a truck - massively outweighing anything else. So if they CAN make it work, it would reduce their operating costs massively.

I know somehow it must work - Elon isn't an idiot, and the Semi has had a massive amount of investment in it - so he wouldn't have done that if it wasn't going to work.

I think Electric Trucks - yes they can work

Charging structure? That I am not so sure of.....
 

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Van depots (Amazon etc) wouldn't need 100kW chargers, just 7.5kW would do, if the drivers park up and charge overnight?
90+ % of Amazon delivery drivers are self employed and use a car or small van they keep at home, same with Hermes, and a lot of other delivery co's.

If Amazon et-al offered them say 5% more for using an EV to deliver the balance would swing - they would get more money and use less fuel, so I think massive numbers would start to swing over - however a cheap old van can be bought for a couple of thousand whereas an EV is a much bigger commitment...
 

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90+ % of Amazon delivery drivers are self employed and use a car or small van they keep at home, same with Hermes, and a lot of other delivery co's.

If Amazon et-al offered them say 5% more for using an EV to deliver the balance would swing - they would get more money and use less fuel, so I think massive numbers would start to swing over - however a cheap old van can be bought for a couple of thousand whereas an EV is a much bigger commitment...
Depends where you live i guess. Round here recently all my Amazon deliveries have been done with brand new looking amazon branded vans, of a larger size, Merc Sprinter etc. Occasionally we'll get someone in an unbranded smaller van like a renault traffic or similar. A lot of these companies use a mixture of owner-driver and company owned vehicles.
 

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And Rivian have a massive order for 140,000 electric trucks for Amazon in the US

The tide is turning, but it will by necessity be slow.
 

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If there are 500K HGV's and 27 million cars, that means there are 54 cars for every HGV. The average arctic consumes 30 litres of diesel per 100km and in the UK do 125,000 miles a year or 200, 000 KM, with an average emission of 159 tonnes of CO2 per year. The average car emits 3.1 tonnes of CO2/year. Cars account for 55% of CO2 emissions, trucks and busses account for 28%. Replacing the higher consuming trucks and busses that do far more miles and consume more a year would cut emissions quicker than replacing vastly more cars. The CO2 figures I have quoted are from the RAC and ignore the additional 30% emissions from extraction, refining and distributing petrol and diesel.

Ultimately it will be the fuel cost savings that drive the transition and looking at the Tesla semi, it looks like the savings will pay for the investment in a couple of years.
 

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The overhead power lines have to come for trucks in my opinion.

They wouldn't be THAT expensive (in a Countrywide sense) to do, and would only need to be on the Motorways. If a Truck can do 10 miles to the motorway and then run fpr 6 hours with a couple of stops - then it can exit the motorway with a full battery. It can then drive to it's final drop off with no worries.

However - can you see this (or actually any) government bringing in this tech?

We're at the tail end (hopefully) of the worst pandemic the world has ever seen. The coffers are depleted and empty.

Where will the money come from? Who would run it? How would you pay for the eleccy?

All things that could be overcome for sure - but it would require competence and intelligence to do - and that's something we seem to lack at the top end of any govenment we've had for the last 30 - 40 years really, maybe longer.

No government wants to commit to anything that won't win them votes at the next general election.
 

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I suspect we'll see this first with companies that want the greenwash, so will put the money up, and have predictable routes they can make work door to door, so they don't need to rely on infrastructure en route to start with.
 

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As a cyclist, I really hope this is possible soon! Sitting at junctions with nasty exhausts from HGV pumping out in my face is unpleasant and can't be good for me! I hope the BBC article is right that it's on the way!
 

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Of course, if the powerlines for trucks are there and cars could pop a pantograph up there and get a boost - imagine driving 100 miles and having more range at the end than the start - pretty cool!
 
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