Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
2017 Golf GTE
Joined
·
2,030 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I would much prefer to have a new car WITHOUT keyless entry for security reasons.

Does anyone know of a new BEV that has keyed entry even as a cost option?

Am I alone? We Dodos must stick together.
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,091 Posts
Some cars with keyless you can turn off. The zoe would turn off keyless if you used the fob. I suspect there are others. I'm assuming the new Zoe 50 does the same but you'd have to check with owners as to whether it does. The 40 did. It also had autolock so the moment you walked away it locked the doors.

The Corsa E might be able to turn it off as well from a menu but as the keyless is very fussy anyway the probability of a thief actually being able to open it is small...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
Not all keyless entry systems are the same and they’re not all vulnerable to relay attacks, even from the same manufacturer.

I find keys a pain now to be honest, it feels really weird having to put a key in the steering column and turn it!
 

·
Registered
2017 Golf GTE
Joined
·
2,030 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
“Wants a new car with the best technology, but without some of the new technology”
OK - sort of.

I want the new car warranty, safety standards and reliability.

I can live without most of the toys.

I want to keep the car for a good many years when I get a BEV that works for me. Not just a couple of months until the organised crime find out how to hack the keyless system. I live in Bradford so maybe my priorities have to be different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
The new mg5 base model does not have keyless entry. Or "slam-on-the-brakes-at-the-hedge", or "i'll-do--it-all", or "I'll-do-it-all-except-steer". Perfect. I live in devon and almost never lock my car - so similarly my priorities are different - I always have keyless entry!
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,091 Posts
Disklok is the answer if you live somewhere rough. It's another layer of annoyance to take your car rather than anyone else's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,400 Posts
OK - sort of.

I want the new car warranty, safety standards and reliability.

I can live without most of the toys.

I want to keep the car for a good many years when I get a BEV that works for me. Not just a couple of months until the organised crime find out how to hack the keyless system. I live in Bradford so maybe my priorities have to be different.
Not all cars have security flaws, and they can be mitigated.

Really depends on where your car is parked in relation to your house.

If you could tell us a bit more we might be able to help.
 

·
Registered
Peugeot e-2008 GT-LINE
Joined
·
93 Posts
I would much prefer to have a new car WITHOUT keyless entry for security reasons.

Does anyone know of a new BEV that has keyed entry even as a cost option?

Am I alone? We Dodos must stick together.
I was looking for the same thing and chose Peugeot e2008 GT line , the GT has keyless entry but not GT line, press of the fob needed to unlock but then the key only needs to be in the car to start up thought this was ideal option for me
 

·
Registered
2017 Golf GTE
Joined
·
2,030 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Not all cars have security flaws, and they can be mitigated.

Really depends on where your car is parked in relation to your house.

If you could tell us a bit more we might be able to help.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

Any key system that transmits continuously may be secure today but it's just waiting to be hacked one day. I'd rather avoid the problem than spend my time jumping through hoops to protect my new convenience feature.

That old fashioned key on the steering column went into a mechanical steering lock. Now a thing of the past?

For information my car is parked on the drive immediately next to the front of the house and alongside the footpath to the front door. So if I were to walk past it with my newfangled key in my pocket it would unlock. I stroll off for a walk and the man in the balaclava just gets in and drives it away. No?

That's convenient but not for me!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,400 Posts
Any key system that transmits continuously may be secure today but it's just waiting to be hacked one day. I'd rather avoid the problem than spend my time jumping through hoops to protect my new convenience feature.
Don’t want to burst your bubble but traditional keys have been ‘hacked’ for years.
 

·
Registered
Kona PremSe64k 2020+bluelink +ohme
Joined
·
467 Posts
The Kona has added security in terms of being able to track its location (though I can't disable it), remote lock it. Whatever such added features I worry less about someone breaking into the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,400 Posts
For information my car is parked on the drive immediately next to the front of the house and alongside the footpath to the front door. So if I were to walk past it with my newfangled key in my pocket it would unlock. I stroll off for a walk and the man in the balaclava just gets in and drives it away. No?
That’s not really the attack vector, no.

You could simply keep your car keys in a lockable metal box when not used. This would stop any signals getting to or from the key.

If you’re really worried, the an easy thing would be to install some sort of lockable, fold down post or bollard. Fairly cheap and easy to install as well as providing a visual deterrent.

As with all things in security there’s always a trade of between convenience, security and cost.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

Any key system that transmits continuously may be secure today but it's just waiting to be hacked one day. I'd rather avoid the problem than spend my time jumping through hoops to protect my new convenience feature.

That old fashioned key on the steering column went into a mechanical steering lock. Now a thing of the past?

For information my car is parked on the drive immediately next to the front of the house and alongside the footpath to the front door. So if I were to walk past it with my newfangled key in my pocket it would unlock. I stroll off for a walk and the man in the balaclava just gets in and drives it away. No?

That's convenient but not for me!
That’s not how it works, at least not on the e-Golf.

In that scenario, somebody could pull the door lever as I was walking past, and it would open.

However, it wouldn’t start unless the key was also within the passenger cabin. It also wouldn’t unlock unless somebody pulled on the door handle.

Also on the e-Golf implementation of it, and I don’t think it’s unique, there is still a steering lock, an electro mechanical version that you hear disengage when you press the start button.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,805 Posts
So if I were to walk past it with my newfangled key in my pocket it would unlock. I stroll off for a walk and the man in the balaclava just gets in and drives it away. No?
You can usually choose whether it auto-unlocks or you touch it somehow to do so.
Also most cars (all I've had for a few years) lock again after about 30 seconds if no door or hatch is opened - that applies to button fob operated ones too.
And as @Tooks says, it won't start unless the key is present inside.

As long as the keyless fob isn't left near the front door (and ideally not near an outside wall at all), which is why the relay hack can be used, then there is little risk. My car is usually locked in the garage but if it's on the drive I put the key on a bookshelf in the sitting room (where the other key lives), well out of the way of any scrote.
 

·
Registered
2017 Golf GTE
Joined
·
2,030 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Don’t want to burst your bubble but traditional keys have been ‘hacked’ for years.
I don't think it's easy to hack the last generation of keys. Otherwise why did the local car theives spend half an hour breaking into my house at 4am to try to steal them?

They couldn't find the keys as we don't leave them lying about in the hall.
 

·
Registered
2017 Golf GTE
Joined
·
2,030 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
That’s not how it works, at least not on the e-Golf.

In that scenario, somebody could pull the door lever as I was walking past, and it would open.

However, it wouldn’t start unless the key was also within the passenger cabin. It also wouldn’t unlock unless somebody pulled on the door handle.

Also on the e-Golf implementation of it, and I don’t think it’s unique, there is still a steering lock, an electro mechanical version that you hear disengage when you press the start button.
That's reassuring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,400 Posts
I don't think it's easy to hack the last generation of keys. Otherwise why did the local car theives spend half an hour breaking into my house at 4am to try to steal them?

They couldn't find the keys as we don't leave them lying about in the hall.
You’d have to ask them, but it’s probably just their MO. They don’t always expect to find keys, but they find them enough times to make it worthwhile.

There are plenty of examples of high end cars having their keys cloned or reprogrammed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
I would much prefer to have a new car WITHOUT keyless entry for security reasons.

Does anyone know of a new BEV that has keyed entry even as a cost option?

Am I alone? We Dodos must stick together.
You are not alone 🙂

It feels to me that keyless entry introduces attack vectors that don't exist with keys - from a cyber security perspective it feels like it would benefit from some form of two factor authentication.

I suspect the technologies required for a relay attack on a keyless system are relatively cheap and readily available, while cloning or reprogramming a traditional key is more complex (breaking into the property therefore being the average scrote's preferred approach).

Deep down though I accept the main problem is my OCD 🙂. Lock my car, walk across the car park, start worrying I have not locked it, walk back, try the handle 🤦.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
Like Pin to Drive you mean? :)
Giving me flashbacks to my mate's Citroen ZX now <shudder>. I was thinking more like concealing a swipe card scanner in the panel gap 🙂.
You could go down the fingerprint, iris or face recognition route, or PIN, just make it optional.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top