Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 3471 Posts

·
Driving yet another EV!
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have just watched a video by Aaron Russell where he tests range and charging of a 40kWh Leaf 2.ZERO on the motorway.


Worryingly the charge rate never seems to be close to 50kW and once the battery warms up to what I would regard as a fairly normal summer temperature it is charging at 27kW. The next charge is limited to 22kW.

All this is in winter with an air temperature no more than about 9C.

Are we going to find that in summer the new Leaf is incapable of charging fast enough to do reasonable journeys? Bearing in mind that I am used to charging 6 or more times in a day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,092 Posts
None of the Ecotricity DBT rapids will do more than 43kW AFAIK.

Chademo is limited by both current and voltage. Do we know what the voltage of the 40kWh Leaf is, "full" and "empty"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
809 Posts
I mentioned in another thread,hearsay i picked up on was this is well documented in Japan already,,im waiting for Bjorn Nyland to roadtrip the new Leaf as i am sure he will show us soon enough,even though its winter still.
 

·
Driving yet another EV!
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I mentioned in another thread,hearsay i picked up on was this is well documented in Japan already,,im waiting for Bjorn Nyland to roadtrip the new Leaf as i am sure he will show us soon enough,even though its winter still.
I hope he does it soon, because I need to decide in the next week or so whether to order one. It needs to be ordered before the end of February.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,133 Posts
Might be well worth finding some ABB or CM UltraCharger units to try, quite a few bigger capacity or differently configured battery cars seem to get poor charge rates from DBT units.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
806 Posts
I charged 27.4kWh from 9% SOC to 84% on the Ecotricity Rapid at Penrith in 43 minutes - outside temperature was 2deg C.
That's a 38kW average. Would be interesting to know if a true 50kW is possible, that would need a vendor other than Ecotricity of course!
 

·
Driving yet another EV!
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I charged 27.4kWh from 9% SOC to 84% on the Ecotricity Rapid at Penrith in 43 minutes - outside temperature was 2deg C.
So... this seems to back up what the video shows for a cool battery: 38kW charging rate; well short of the claimed 50kW. In fact this suggests that a best case is that the new Leaf charges 25% slower than claimed, but drops to lower than 50% after a couple of charges!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,638 Posts
I find my 30kWh charges a bit slower in this cold weather. Mind, having warmed up the battery to the degree shown in the video it does cause some concern. Could a be a problem with just that specific car, or could it be the DBT chargers need a software update to understand the needs of the new 40kWh battery? Clearly the charging curve of the 24 differs to the 30 with the 30 tapering off down later. A similar update may be required for the 40 if that is how it works. Is it not the charger that controls the charging rate on a rapid, not the car?
PS Shouldn't this thread be in a dedicated Leaf 40 section? Hint @Admin !
 
  • Like
Reactions: Matt Beard

·
Vendor
Joined
·
1,161 Posts
So... this seems to back up what the video shows for a cool battery: 38kW charging rate; well short of the claimed 50kW. In fact this suggests that a best case is that the new Leaf charges 25% slower than claimed, but drops to lower than 50% after a couple of charges!
Ecotricity never get to 50kW anyway. We've got a 50kW eVolt Rapid charger at our Blackpool branch, but I haven't got over there to check it yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
It was a bit of an eye opener for me, not that I am likely to do more than one rapid on any trip I forsee but obviously a concern for some.
I would have liked to have seen the figures on the DBT screen to see how they related to what the car was showing. I am not a big rapid user but have never seen rates that low on either a 24 or a 30 unless SOC is much higher. Dont know enough about the protocols to guess at a cause.
 

·
Driving yet another EV!
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Ecotricity never get to 50kW anyway. We've got a 50kW eVolt Rapid charger at our Blackpool branch, but I haven't got over there to check it yet.
The problem is that many people have found the DBT chargers giving out 43kW or 44kW to other EVs, such as the BMW i3 in my case, and yet we now see it running at 38kW for some reason with the new Leaf. This suggests it is the Leaf rather than the charger that is the limit. Worse still, the second charge in this example drops to 27kW due apparently to overheating. This might be acceptable in Arizona, but in the UK in winter? Then the third charge drops to 22kW. To me this is bad enough that if confirmed to be typical would rule out this car for long-distance trips.

It was a bit of an eye opener for me, not that I am likely to do more than one rapid on any trip I forsee but obviously a concern for some.
I would have liked to have seen the figures on the DBT screen to see how they related to what the car was showing. I am not a big rapid user but have never seen rates that low on either a 24 or a 30 unless SOC is much higher. Dont know enough about the protocols to guess at a cause.
This could be the root of the 38kW maximum - if the battery voltage is as low as 305V, this would cause the DBT to hit its maximum current of 125A, with the power being delivered no more than ~38kW. If true, this would be a major design flaw that would cause lots of problems. Surely this can't be true!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,638 Posts
LeafSpy might give a more informative ongoing figure and show the charge rate curve. One has to wonder if the denser battery chemistry causes the 40 to struggle to actively cool the battery compared to the 24 and 30 and the hinted at spec of the 60 includes active battery temperature management so even Nissan seem to believe it is a requirement. Do they need to modify the 40 design to include it now? Could it be just the UK built cars have this issue?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,638 Posts
So if one purchases a Leaf 40 and it proves that the battery does overheat come the summer, what redress is there to get the matter resolved? I seem to remember that with the original Leaf owners in the hottest parts of America discovered during the summer that prolonged exposure to heat aged to battery quickly to the extent it reduced its capacity and usable range. Is history about to repeat itself?
 

·
Driving yet another EV!
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
So if one purchases a Leaf 40 and it proves that the battery does overheat come the summer, what redress is there to get the matter resolved? I seem to remember that with the original Leaf owners in the hottest parts of America discovered during the summer that prolonged exposure to heat aged to battery quickly to the extent it reduced its capacity and usable range. Is history about to repeat itself?
At the moment I am seriously cooling on the whole "purchase" idea, and may switch to a personal lease... or a different model. I had a change of circumstances that meant I was able to buy this time, and the Leaf 2 looked like a reasonable option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,638 Posts
At the moment I am seriously cooling on the whole "purchase" idea, and may switch to a personal lease... or a different model. I had a change of circumstances that meant I was able to buy this time, and the Leaf 2 looked like a reasonable option.
Mine is ordered and due for delivery very soon. This needs urgent investigation, I don't want to buy a white (or should that be Spring Cloud) elephant! Then there's the original claim of a 235 mile range where now it seems in winter it's over 100 miles less. I'm getting a sense of disappointment unless I can be assured otherwise. The 235 mile range was quoted to me by an employee at the dealership when I went to have a look at the vehicle. Obviously I knew it wasn't right but very disappointing, now this overheating issue.
 
1 - 20 of 3471 Posts
Top