Worst case range - e-Niro

14961 Views 96 Replies 29 Participants Last post by jonsel, Apr 10, 2021

a303

Discussion Starter · Apr 6, 2021

Can I please pick the hive-mind of the e-Niro drivers on here?

I have a 30kwh Leaf at the moment. I love almost everything about it, except the range when on a longer motorway run, especially in cold/wet weather.

I've also got a second car, which basically only gets used for those longer journeys.

I'd like to sell both and replace with one EV.

However, it would need to cope with a 200 mile round trip without charging. That's 100 miles out, and the same back again. No charging at the destination. Mostly motorways, sitting at 70mph.

It would need to do that summer or winter, dry or rain, and with the heater or a/c on! And it would need to get me home with a reasonable margin left so I'm not panicking all the way home about if I'm going to get stuck...

And it would need to do it today, and for the next six or seven years (as that's how long I tend to keep my cars).

It feels like a lot of demands! Can the e-Niro do that? Or am I expecting too much?

I'd really appreciate the wisdom of your experience before I make an expensive mistake!

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80698

· #2 · Apr 6, 2021

a303 said:
Can I please pick the hive-mind of the e-Niro drivers on here?

I have a 30kwh Leaf at the moment. I love almost everything about it, except the range when on a longer motorway run, especially in cold/wet weather.

I've also got a second car, which basically only gets used for those longer journeys.

I'd like to sell both and replace with one EV.

However, it would need to cope with a 200 mile round trip without charging. That's 100 miles out, and the same back again. No charging at the destination. Mostly motorways, sitting at 70mph.

It would need to do that summer or winter, dry or rain, and with the heater or a/c on! And it would need to get me home with a reasonable margin left so I'm not panicking all the way home about if I'm going to get stuck...

And it would need to do it today, and for the next six or seven years (as that's how long I tend to keep my cars).

It feels like a lot of demands! Can the e-Niro do that? Or am I expecting too much?

I'd really appreciate the wisdom of your experience before I make an expensive mistake!

The Kia/Hyundai batteries tend to do very little in the way of degradation. So you should be fine in that sense, even in 6 years time. As for the use of heating or cooling, as long as you do the usual things like preheating your car before departure, and are willing to set the climate to a comfortable temperature, and not hot - This again should be fine too.

You're looking at a touch over 3 Miles per kWh needed to achieve 200 miles. In a car like the Niro that shouldn't be too hard to do at all, but in the very worst weather (sub-zero temperatures, strong winds, snow and ice etc.) then you may need to accept that dropping your speed or stopping for a brief rapid charge could be necessary.

I Don't own one of these cars myself, but based on my knowledge of it's sibling the Kona, and a few chances I had to play with the Niro that would be my guess. Hopefully someone will be along soon who has had the chance to put this to the test in bad winter conditions and can speak with their personal experience of this to either confirm or deny my suggestions for you for sure.

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BigBadBotnik

· #3 · Apr 6, 2021

a303 said:
Can I please pick the hive-mind of the e-Niro drivers on here?

I have a 30kwh Leaf at the moment. I love almost everything about it, except the range when on a longer motorway run, especially in cold/wet weather.

I've also got a second car, which basically only gets used for those longer journeys.

I'd like to sell both and replace with one EV.

However, it would need to cope with a 200 mile round trip without charging. That's 100 miles out, and the same back again. No charging at the destination. Mostly motorways, sitting at 70mph.

It would need to do that summer or winter, dry or rain, and with the heater or a/c on! And it would need to get me home with a reasonable margin left so I'm not panicking all the way home about if I'm going to get stuck...

And it would need to do it today, and for the next six or seven years (as that's how long I tend to keep my cars).

It feels like a lot of demands! Can the e-Niro do that? Or am I expecting too much?

I'd really appreciate the wisdom of your experience before I make an expensive mistake!

I think the e-Niro can handle that most of the time though possibly on cold and wet winter days you are going to be cutting it quite thin with no charging at all. I would certainly be stopping for a 10min charge on the return leg for those days to cover any emergencies. Days above 5C should be no problem, I notice a drop in range below that (excluding heater use etc)

Obv terrain is going to be a factor too, but as a seasoned EV driver you'll already be aware of this.

artyman

· #4 · Apr 6, 2021

Yes should be OK I've no experience of that length of journey in poor conditions, however if range anxiety is worrying you then perhaps driving at 65mph would sort it with little impact on overall time

Edd Beesley

· #5 · Apr 6, 2021

a303 said:
Can I please pick the hive-mind of the e-Niro drivers on here?

I have a 30kwh Leaf at the moment. I love almost everything about it, except the range when on a longer motorway run, especially in cold/wet weather.

I've also got a second car, which basically only gets used for those longer journeys.

I'd like to sell both and replace with one EV.

However, it would need to cope with a 200 mile round trip without charging. That's 100 miles out, and the same back again. No charging at the destination. Mostly motorways, sitting at 70mph.

It would need to do that summer or winter, dry or rain, and with the heater or a/c on! And it would need to get me home with a reasonable margin left so I'm not panicking all the way home about if I'm going to get stuck...

And it would need to do it today, and for the next six or seven years (as that's how long I tend to keep my cars).

It feels like a lot of demands! Can the e-Niro do that? Or am I expecting too much?

I'd really appreciate the wisdom of your experience before I make an expensive mistake!

At GPS 70mph in winter in seven years? No, that's an unrealistic expectation.

I managed 230 miles in winter (something like 3 degrees) at about 65mph indicated (not GPS) and arrived home with the battery warning on and --- miles displayed. No rain, a bit of wind but not a gale, one very small passenger, no luggage.

If you're willing to accept driving at 65mph, or a ten minute charge somewhere on the way home, then you'll be ok.

Reactions: 3

Paul243

· #6 · Apr 6, 2021

a303 said:
Can I please pick the hive-mind of the e-Niro drivers on here?

I have a 30kwh Leaf at the moment. I love almost everything about it, except the range when on a longer motorway run, especially in cold/wet weather.

I've also got a second car, which basically only gets used for those longer journeys.

I'd like to sell both and replace with one EV.

However, it would need to cope with a 200 mile round trip without charging. That's 100 miles out, and the same back again. No charging at the destination. Mostly motorways, sitting at 70mph.

It would need to do that summer or winter, dry or rain, and with the heater or a/c on! And it would need to get me home with a reasonable margin left so I'm not panicking all the way home about if I'm going to get stuck...

And it would need to do it today, and for the next six or seven years (as that's how long I tend to keep my cars).

It feels like a lot of demands! Can the e-Niro do that? Or am I expecting too much?

I'd really appreciate the wisdom of your experience before I make an expensive mistake!

I have the Niro’s sister the Kona with the same drive train you will be amazed at the range you get from theses cars I went to Cornwall in mine a 300 mile trip and only had to charge for 20 mins but to be honest without that charge I would of still made it admit it was in summer but I still get well over 220 miles in winter no matter what roads I drive theses cars are very efficient and I don’t think there’s many out there that do as well so it would be a very good choice have no fear you won’t regret it.

Woodulike

· #7 · Apr 6, 2021

If you drive at 70mph in the winter on a cold wet day usable range with a safety margin is more like 175-185 miles. I don't have a Niro now but on the occasional long winter trip I did drive in it that was what I worked on.

If you drive slower or have several miles before you get to the motorway then you will have a better chance of getting to 200 miles. I'm not sure you'll have much of a safety margin in the Niro.
The Kona would be a better option if you really want to be able to drive at 70 on cold wet days but I'm not sure you'd have a big margin left on the worst winter days.

Reactions: 1

UniqueGeorge

· #8 · Apr 6, 2021

I have a Hyundai Kona, in the worst UK conditions it might struggle to do your long trip. Last winter I used just over 100% to cover just over 210 ish miles. We were 4 up In car with heating on at motorway speeds (just below 70 as weather was bad). Temperature never above freezing whilst we were moving and road wet, we arrived at midpoint having used just more than half of our initial 95% charge, so topped up to about 55%, made it home with less than 5%.
Which is a long way of saying no, it won't be able to do it in all conditions, but it will in most.

Nobby

· #9 · Apr 6, 2021

I have a 24kWh Leaf and a 64kWh Niro. I've just driven, this morning, 75 miles to my nearest Kia Dealer and 75 miles back again for my first service. The weather was dry, quite windy and about 3ºC with the odd flake of snow in the wind. The journey was mostly on A-Roads and I kept up with traffic using cruise control at just under 60 mph. I got 3.7 miles/kWh for the whole journey. There may or may not have been a moment on my outgoing journey when I looked down and saw 93 mph at one point and I may or may not have averaged 80mph or so for the last few miles returning home, so I probably could have done better too. I could have done the journey in the Leaf with a few charging stops on the way, I would have been hypermiling and keeping it around 50 mph to achieve probably the same economy. The economy of the Niro is just better than the old style Leafs. If I'd hypermiled in the Niro and kept the speed around 50 I'd honestly expect 4+ miles/kWh this morning.

a303

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 6, 2021

A huge thank you to everyone who took the time to answer - I really appreciate your insights!

What I'm taking away from this is that the Niro will do my longer journeys some of the time, but it's going to be pretty tight - probably requiring some compromise in terms of speed or a charging stop - on some occasions.

Given the Niro was absolutely top of my budget, that's a compromise I was hoping not to have to make!

So, if I'm going to have to stop somewhere for a top-up, am I better off buying something more like a Ioniq 38 or an MG5? Admittedly one of those would turn a 10 minute top-up into a slightly longer break, but I could save a good few £thousands on the cost of the car!

I've got to confess to feeling pretty lost: I really want to go full-electric with just the one car; I'm trying to avoid reliance on the public charging network (as my experiences to date haven't been reassuring!); and I just can't work out the best way to do it!

idiotzoo

· #11 · Apr 6, 2021

I went for a Niro precisely because my reference journey required being able to cover 200 miles. The difference is I’m prepared to slow down a bit if necessary. I tend towards being a slow driver anyway to be honest. The Niro is a 200+ miles car, no problem. The issue is the conditions. Temperature is easy to adjust for, it’s closer to 220 miles range when things are cold in the UK. The bigger issue is topology and weather. Do 70 into a strong headwind with a few hills and your mi/kWh will drop too low. That’s the same with any car of course. I recall driving out heavily loaded mondy estate to Scotland. Weather was awful, strong southerly wind. Had to stop for fuel at Gretna, knocked something like 100 miles off the range.

Reactions: 2

prawlin

· #12 · Apr 6, 2021

If you do get one, you’d better make sure it has the heat pump for best winter efficiency. The 2019 FE, 2020 4 or the 2021 4+ all have it. I presume you also know that since last weeks PICG grant shuffle the cost new is now virtually £40k. No grant available any more on the 4+ sadly. Peter.

SoulGW

· #13 · Apr 6, 2021

The number of times that Niro won't do the full trip will be single digits each year!

99.9% of the time you will have 40+ miles to spare. I have never seen my range estimator drop under 242 HOWEVER in sub zero temps with heater on 22, and 70mph I can see 200m being tight - but seriously, how often do you get that?

Temp over 10 degrees absolutely no problem, sub 5 degrees you may have to stop - tip is, stop when the car gets to 30% not 10 % (will charge faster) and just after driving 20+ miles (battery warmer - charges faster).
Buy something like the MG and yes its a good car, but you will be charging every day, (real range 190 ish on the MG5?)

I have got 312m out of my Soul before now, so they are one of the few EV's that will easily do what is claimed..... most wont.

Whats the route, perhaps we can make some suggestions? Whats the destination? Is there a nearby 7.2kw free charger you can pop on for 2 hrs?

Reactions: 1

jimbobjoe

· #14 · Apr 6, 2021

The FE, if I remember correctly, did not have a battery heater, whereas the 4 and 4+ definitely do. That should also help to minimise the range loss in the dead of winter. Those above with stories of sub-200 range, which version were they in?

I haven't had the opportunity of testing range in my 4+, and now things are warming up. But just bombing round the A roads is getting 3.7m/kwh easily. The only longish run I've had so far (100miles), I got nearly 4. But I wasn't in a hurry.

SoulGW

· #15 · Apr 6, 2021

Other ideas

Do you go to the gym after work, if so and you are a member of a chain, go at your work rather than when you get back home - or en-route, most gyms have chargers....

Make a coffee and something to eat before you leave put on flask. Stop near destination at a rapid, drink the coffee, eat breaking, take on 20KW in 20 min - that will be plenty

Park at a Tesco near the destination, walk to destination, leave car on charger 2hrs then pick up at first coffee break.

All easy things, and only required in the very coldest weather.

Reactions: 1

SoulGW

· #16 · Apr 6, 2021

I think the killer is the sub zero, 70mph + all heaters on AND 200m range from a non Tesla, Mach e, ID3 Long range......

To get all that, you need a 320m quoted range really so loss of 30% still gets you there....

Reactions: 2

80698

· #17 · Apr 6, 2021

a303 said:
So, if I'm going to have to stop somewhere for a top-up, am I better off buying something more like a Ioniq 38 or an MG5? Admittedly one of those would turn a 10 minute top-up into a slightly longer break, but I could save a good few £thousands on the cost of the car!

The 38kWh Ioniq is going to have significantly less range than the Niro, and significantly slower rapid charging too. For these longer journeys it's going to be a pain to deal with. The Niro definitely seems like it is the answer to me. It will do these journeys most of the time. Only a small few times will you ever have to either drop your speed or quickly rapid charge. This car still makes sense if you ask me.

Xinix

· #18 · Apr 6, 2021

jimbobjoe said:
The FE, if I remember correctly, did not have a battery heater, whereas the 4 and 4+ definitely do. That should also help to minimise the range loss in the dead of winter.

Sorry to say that is not the case. The battery heater does not come on while driving and even if it did the heafing process would waste more energy than what you'd gain from the reduced resistance in the battery. Moreover, the heater comes on (only while DC charging) at temps below -10.

SoulGW

· #19 · Apr 6, 2021 (Edited)

The Ioniq or 39kwh Niro is totally unsuited to what you ask - good cars though they are.

Any one of your requirements on its own might be ok (can I do the occasional 200m trip for example) they would be fine cars.

However you are basically asking for a car that no matter what will do a clean 210m (gotta have some margin) no matter what the weather.... There are still very very few meeting that brief.

The Niro is the closest without spending £47k on a model 3 LR or £43k on a Mach-E extended range or more.

It’s certainly got the most REAL range (not claimed) in the sub £40k bracket (Possibly large battery Enyaq excepted?)

I think if you drop your speed to 67/68 mph ish, totally pre-condition before departure, keep the heater on 20 not 23 deg, heated seat on 1 and wear a Jumper in the car you will do what you want 99.99999% of the time - just don’t be a hero - on that ultra rare time the range says 3m less than your distance to go, don’t leave it till you have 1m left - charge for 10min on a rapid and smile at how much you save in fuel every week with the battery over 30% and warm, and you will be fine....

Find the cheapest rapid on your regular route, somewhere near 1/3 of your return trip, and as you approach it make your “call” whether to charge or not. Most times it will be, range 140m distance left 80m - no need, but one day it will be - range left 80m, distance to go 80m - stop for 10, have a pee, and in 10min I’ll add 8kw which gives me 20 miles more range (would normally be more like 32m but this will only happen when it’s freezing) so I now have 100m range and 80m to go.

Whilst rapid charging you can also heat the cabin right up as well, to conserve a bit more heater!

But run out on a freezing wet night, and during the hour waiting for the tow truck you will be cursing And wondering if you did the right thing....

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SHL-Kelso

· #20 · Apr 6, 2021

That’s pretty much the decision I made when Inout in my order for a 4+ about 6 weeks ago. Having owned a 24kWh Leaf and then a 30kWh Soul EV as the 2nd car I’ve decided to replace my Mitsi Outlander PHEV primary car (also used for work) with the e-Niro, and accept that there will be days where I may need to charge once or possibly twice based on my typical annual use. I’ve also compromised on boot space, and again will accept that I may need to hire a van for the few days a year I need maximum carrying capacity. Apart from that I get to enjoy the very nicely equipped EV driving experience from the e-Niro the majority of the time. It did take me a few months of soul searching to make my decision, and if the government grant had not been downgraded I may have swapped my order for a EV6, but I’m happy with my choice and look forward to getting the car in a few weeks time.

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