[prawlin]

You must drive like a loon to get it down to 2.9m/Kwh. Dont you have your regeneration braking turned on?

What are you on about here? You cannot turn regenerative braking off!
The only way is to drop into N and I certainly hope you are not doing that too often!
Peter

 

[Todor]

It won't do 200 in winter.
View attachment 143067
Started at 100%, pulled in for a charge and a rest at about 12% remaining.

Temps around 5C, lots of wind+rain at times, heater on 21/22C, motorway speeds between 65 and 80.

It might do it if you're prepared to draft trucks at 50mph or drive with no heating on.

Not to burst your bubble but this is an average speed of 65mph. You can achieve this only by staying above 75 even 80mph for extended periods of time.

I don't have a problem with your speed, but I do take offence by your statements. You are using the car in a specific way. That is it. It has nothing to do with the car, it did deliver you to the end of your trip at your desired speed.

Anyway, I think people have been very helpful giving you suggestions on how to get the car to work for you. Obviously, if the car doesn't meet your needs, enjoy your next car.

 

[SoulGW]

I agree 70+ mph starts to really impact range and 80 will batter it.....

If you need the range (as the op does) then 65-70 is the sweet spot for range / getting the journey done... 65 is better for range 70 will save a few mins of time, but not worth it if it means he'll need a charge.

 

[SoulGW]

What are you on about here? You cannot turn regenerative braking off!
The only way is to drop into N and I certainly hope you are not doing that too often!
Peter

Yes you can turn it off - Right paddle, more times you pull it, more it drops until no arrows means no regenerative braking....


I do it, but only where I feel a coast will be better than regenerative (very slight downhill with no need to slow for example)

 

[Bill N]

Yes..but as soon as you touch the brake pedal you start getting regen, even in regen setting zero.

So the only way to have no regen would be to always completely coast up to roundabouts, give ways, stop signs etc etc (which would really annoy other road users), or maybe use the parking brake!?

 

[Edd Beesley]

Yes..but as soon as you touch the brake pedal you start getting regen, even in regen setting zero.

So the only way to have no regen would be to always completely coast up to roundabouts, give ways, stop signs etc etc (which would really annoy other road users), or maybe use the parking brake!?

Braking while in Neutral won't use regen.

 

[Bill N]

Can’t say I’ve tried that myself!

 

[Edd Beesley]

Can’t say I’ve tried that myself!

I've been driving cars with regen brakes for 11 years, got to do something to pass the time!

 

[SoulGW]

True that the initial part of brake travel does do regen - but many can't modulate it to get max regen without using friction brakes which is hugely wasteful. I rarely touch the brake pedal on drives - maybe once in last 3 weeks?? Dont like thinking any of that energy will go into waste heat.

 

[prawlin]

True that the initial part of brake travel does do regen - but many can't modulate it to get max regen without using friction brakes which is hugely wasteful. I rarely touch the brake pedal on drives - maybe once in last 3 weeks?? Dont like thinking any of that energy will go into waste heat.

I’m sorry but some of the things you are saying are totally misleading.
You absolutely cannot turn of regenerative braking (except by using N). What you are talking about with the right paddle is affecting the coasting regeneration which is a completely different thing.

You make it sound like normal use of the brake pedal wastes lots of energy with the disc brakes. That is just nonsense. Almost all of the normal foot braking is accomplished just by regeneration. That is why it is quite difficult to clean away the surface rust on the discs. They are virtually unused unless you brake very hard and/or at high speeds.

To say using the foot brake is “hugely wasteful“ is absolute nonsense. The car has been designed for great efficiency without any of your ridiculous proposed special driving techniques.
Sorry to be so blunt but it needs to be said.
Cheers Peter

 

[Bill N]

Yep, driving normally and coming to a normal stop at a junction, a zebra crossing etc by using the foot brake pedal is in all intents and purposes no more or less efficient than using the left hand paddle.

It does concern me a little that people out there are habitually using the hand paddle in situations like that when I think it’d just be safer for everyone if they just used the foot pedal, so they can then immediately apply more pressure to stop more quickly should it become necessary to do so. But I blame Kia/Hyundai mainly for implementing what I think is a bit of a mess of a system that encourages people to drive in an odd manner using their hand with an on/off switch, instead of their foot with an adjustable device.

 

[jonsel]

Over 40k miles in our Kona through all seasons and mostly spent hammering up and down the motorway without any consideration of economy. Over that time, averaged 3.6 miles/kWh which is less than most on here. We have Goodyear tyres which definitely dent range but are grippier and quieter. Do 200 mile round trips twice a week without charging. Never got less than 210 miles range even in the depths of winter with heating, windscreen wipers etc.

 

[SoulGW]

I prefer to use the "one pedal" style driving, and it certainly works for me - I seem to get better figures than some (perhaps worse than others).

If you can tell where the regen stops and the friction brake starts in terms of pedal travel you are doing well, I struggle and consider myself reasonably mechanically "sympathetic". Do what works for you obviously, but in my opinion, if you just press the brake pedal routinely, sometimes you will use the mechanical brakes....

I only use them if I know / judge the regen wont stop me in time, which is very rare.

 

[Xinix]

if you just press the brake pedal routinely, sometimes you will use the mechanical brakes....

No you won't. Unless you are referring to the last 10 metres before coming to a complete standstill. The regenerative braking capacity is so high, you really need to slam on the brakes for the discs to be involved. In normal driving that just won't happen.

 

[Bill N]

It’s literally not possible to compare figures with other people, and how driving style/technique affects them, unless everyone is doing exactly the same journeys at the same times.

It’s difficult to tell when friction braking starts, because unless you’re braking very heavily / doing an emergency stop, practically all braking activated by the foot pedal is regen braking.

 

[EVJourney]

So, if I'm going to have to stop somewhere for a top-up, am I better off buying something more like a Ioniq 38 or an MG5? Admittedly one of those would turn a 10 minute top-up into a slightly longer break, but I could save a good few £thousands on the cost of the car!

You've hit a very good point here. Just how much is your time worth per minute, and how often are you doing this 200 mile round trip? Once that is answered, if it is a regular occurrence, can you tell us what the average speed you achieve is for the full journey door-to-door each way? These are more important questions that often are missed, as 70mph will never be the average unless you start on the motorway, finish on the motorway and never have any congestion.

If you do the journey once per month, or 12 times per year and you need to charge once on the return leg for 20 minutes, that is a total of 4 hours per year. £22k will get you a 20 plated Ioniq 38kWh, with less than 6k miles on it, vs £26k for 68 plated Kona 64kWh with 15k miles on it and less warranty left. So if you keep it 7 years you'll have used 28 hours of time, or spent over £142 per hour, and if you want to be pessimistic and call it 36 hours for 7years, then it is £111 per hour. You need to deduct the cost of the charge put into the car, but that would likely be less than £60 per year.
These are just random figures for you since the first question isn't yet answered, and obviously if your journey is time sensitive or you just hate not moving won't help you a great deal. I just though it is nice to see, I don't personally know many people who are paid £111+ per hour, food for thought!

 

[Bill N]

Looking at it another way, if you can come to terms with charging slightly more often, then you can trade a large battery, more weight and dull driving dynamics for something with a smaller battery, less weight and more engaging to drive. Depends what your priorities are. This is mainly why I’m changing from a Kona into an e208.

 

[a303]

You've hit a very good point here. Just how much is your time worth per minute, and how often are you doing this 200 mile round trip? Once that is answered, if it is a regular occurrence, can you tell us what the average speed you achieve is for the full journey door-to-door each way? These are more important questions that often are missed, as 70mph will never be the average unless you start on the motorway, finish on the motorway and never have any congestion.

If you do the journey once per month, or 12 times per year and you need to charge once on the return leg for 20 minutes, that is a total of 4 hours per year. £22k will get you a 20 plated Ioniq 38kWh, with less than 6k miles on it, vs £26k for 68 plated Kona 64kWh with 15k miles on it and less warranty left. So if you keep it 7 years you'll have used 28 hours of time, or spent over £142 per hour, and if you want to be pessimistic and call it 36 hours for 7years, then it is £111 per hour. You need to deduct the cost of the charge put into the car, but that would likely be less than £60 per year.
These are just random figures for you since the first question isn't yet answered, and obviously if your journey is time sensitive or you just hate not moving won't help you a great deal. I just though it is nice to see, I don't personally know many people who are paid £111+ per hour, food for thought!

That's a good way to look at it... The e-Niro is (even second hand) very much at the top of my budget. (Possibly outside it, if my wife is looking!) I was trying to convince myself it was worth the extra if it would avoid the compromises of a smaller-range car - mainly having to rely on the rapid charger network (I've not had great experiences when I have used it!)

However if the Niro won't allow me to escape completely, then do I save £££ and stick to an Ioniq or similar. This 200 mile round trip is a (relatively) occasional thing - maybe half a dozen times a year. So the £-per-hour figures for a Niro vs a smaller range car probably look pretty scary...

Or do I accept I can't sensibly get rid of the diesel yet?

Thanks to those who pointed me to ABRP. I've had a play, but it feels quite pessimistic - suggesting the Niro will make the trip only at 60mph in summer. (However, it also says I won't be able to do some of the journeys I've done before in the Leaf, so I'm guessing it's set up to be a little cautious?) That's why these personal insights (even if they are anecdotal) are so helpful!

Anyway, lots of food for thought - so thank you!

 

[Bill N]

Yes, ABRP is normally set to deliberately be 10% pessimistic for each car model, at least until they have gathered further real world data on each car. To give you some sort of idea, I use a reference consumption of 4.0 mi/kWh for a Kona, which is inherently slightly more efficient than the eNiro, and find that to give extremely accurate results in the real world.

 

[Ambassador Spock]

This 200 mile round trip is a (relatively) occasional thing - maybe half a dozen times a year.

Where is this occasional trip's starting and ending points? I've only had good experiences with rapid charging personally, but a lot would depend on where you are.