[Bill N]

It sounds like 3.8mi/kWh is a reasonable, actually accurate reference consumption figure for the eNiro.

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[SoulGW]

It’s difficult to tell when friction braking starts.

My point exactly. If I don’t touch the pedal, I know it’s ALL regen. And as you don’t NEED to touch the pedal, why do it?

 

[Bill N]

Because any gain is absolutely minuscule. And...

Yep, driving normally and coming to a normal stop at a junction, a zebra crossing etc by using the foot brake pedal is in all intents and purposes no more or less efficient than using the left hand paddle.

It does concern me a little that people out there are habitually using the hand paddle in situations like that when I think it’d just be safer for everyone if they just used the foot pedal, so they can then immediately apply more pressure to stop more quickly should it become necessary to do so. But I blame Kia/Hyundai mainly for implementing what I think is a bit of a mess of a system that encourages people to drive in an odd manner using their hand with an on/off switch, instead of their foot with an adjustable device.

 

[SoulGW]

For 6 times a year, rapid charging is fine - I misread it to be a daily / weekly thing.

Any decent range (about 200m + claimed) will do it very well for you.

Plus once you’ve had that range you would struggle to drop down, never had it you won’t miss it.

 

[SoulGW]

Because any gain is absolutely minuscule. And...

Fair enough - I disagree, but we are all entitled to different views

 

[dougconran]

This 200 mile round trip is a (relatively) occasional thing - maybe half a dozen times a year.

So, the consensus of opinion is that in summer you definitely won't have a problem, in anything other than bad winter conditions you most probably won't have a problem and, if you are worried drop your speed a bit (my e-Niro cruises at 65mph when SCC is set to 70mph) and in the worst conditions you may need to go for a quick top-up. Doing your journey roughly 6 times a year, how frequently and how likely are you to have to do it in bad/cold winter weather?

If it were me I'd go for the e-Niro and take the possible hit (but I don't have to as I already have one and it is a brilliant car!).

 

[SoulGW]

I too chose a car that would do 99% of my required journeys without needing a charge - the reality is it’s been more like 99.99% - I’ve only had to rapid charge once, for a trip to Scotland, every other day I have just driven where I wanted to and got back with range to spare....

 

[Bill N]

Given it is only 6 or so times a year that you make this long journey, OP, and if the vast majority of journeys are then going to be be under, say, 100-120 miles round trip, I’d seriously consider getting something that’s probably more likely to put a smile on your face when you drive it, probably cheaper, charges more quickly and is generally likely to be more fun to own and drive. The current gen Korean cars are generally very sensible, and able, but don’t offer much in the way of driver enjoyment. But it also then comes down to things like what are the roads like where you mostly drive, what chargers are available now / coming soon along the route of your normal longer journeys, what are your space requirements, do you need something with a higher seating position that’s easier to get in and out of etc etc. This video may be enlightening in this regard.

 

[DragonQ]

Yes you can turn it off - Right paddle, more times you pull it, more it drops until no arrows means no regenerative braking....


I do it, but only where I feel a coast will be better than regenerative (very slight downhill with no need to slow for example)

The only way to not use regenerative braking is to crash into the car in front to stop. A quite expensive strategy.

 

[DragonQ]

True that the initial part of brake travel does do regen - but many can't modulate it to get max regen without using friction brakes which is hugely wasteful. I rarely touch the brake pedal on drives - maybe once in last 3 weeks?? Dont like thinking any of that energy will go into waste heat.

Ignoring the misleading nature of these comments which were brought up earlier, how exactly can you get away with only using the brake pedal once every 3 weeks?? Even when I was trying regen level 3 for a while, I still had to use the brake pedal sometimes because people are idiots and don't indicate, for example.

My point exactly. If I don’t touch the pedal, I know it’s ALL regen. And as you don’t NEED to touch the pedal, why do it?

Well that's not true either. If you pull the paddle to come to a stop, it will sometimes use energy to do so. It's not "ALL regen". I would also argue that using the brake pedal is safer.

 

[Bill N]

Yeah, I dare not imagine how you’d try and park an eNiro/Kona/Soul without using the brake pedal! Maybe it’s been one very long drive lasting 3 weeks!

 

[a303]

Where is this occasional trip's starting and ending points? I've only had good experiences with rapid charging personally, but a lot would depend on where you are.

I've simplified slightly - I live in Berkshire, and we visit friends or family in Somerset, Essex and Worcestershire. But they're all very similar journeys - 100 miles each way; mostly motorway (or dual carriageway A roads). The Essex one is easy, as they have a home charger I can use. The relevant bits of Somerset and Worcestershire don't have anything helpful nearby... My bad experiences have been with Ecotricity, BP Pulse (or whatever they were called at the time!) and Geniepoint, and can basically be summarised as unreliable chargers!

 

[a303]

Given it is only 6 or so times a year that you make this long journey, OP, and if the vast majority of journeys are then going to be be under, say, 100-120 miles round trip, I’d seriously consider getting something that’s probably more likely to put a smile on your face when you drive it, probably cheaper, charges more quickly and is generally likely to be more fun to own and drive. The current gen Korean cars are generally very sensible, and able, but don’t offer much in the way of driver enjoyment. But it also then comes down to things like what are the roads like where you mostly drive, what chargers are available now / coming soon along the route of your normal longer journeys, what are your space requirements, do you need something with a higher seating position that’s easier to get in and out of etc etc. This video may be enlightening in this regard.

I like your thinking - what would you recommend? It's got to be family transport for 2+2 with enough boot space for a long weekend / week's holiday. Our Diesel, a Volvo V60, does the job. The Leaf is currently a little too tight on boot space. I was thinking that the Niro (or an MG5 or Ioniq) might be somewhere between the two, and hence do the job. But is there anything else I should have on the list to tick the "fun" box?

 

[Ambassador Spock]

I've simplified slightly - I live in Berkshire, and we visit friends or family in Somerset, Essex and Worcestershire. But they're all very similar journeys - 100 miles each way; mostly motorway (or dual carriageway A roads). The Essex one is easy, as they have a home charger I can use. The relevant bits of Somerset and Worcestershire don't have anything helpful nearby... My bad experiences have been with Ecotricity, BP Pulse (or whatever they were called at the time!) and Geniepoint, and can basically be summarised as unreliable chargers!

Well, just looking at ONE very reliable company (Instavolt), I see quite a few potential chargers on the way to all of those places:

With 50 kW charging you would only need a 5-10 minute loo break to do any one of those journeys with no issues. Also, what about bringing a granny charger and plugging into a 3-pin while you are there? Even 1-2 hours on a 3-pin will easily give you the headroom you need to do those journeys without stopping.

 

[Bill N]

I like your thinking - what would you recommend? It's got to be family transport for 2+2 with enough boot space for a long weekend / week's holiday. Our Diesel, a Volvo V60, does the job. The Leaf is currently a little too tight on boot space. I was thinking that the Niro (or an MG5 or Ioniq) might be somewhere between the two, and hence do the job. But is there anything else I should have on the list to tick the "fun" box?

Hmm probably tricky given the space requirements I think then. I’m trying a Peugeot e208 in a month’s time, so can’t yet speak with first hand experience, but gather from numerous reviews that it offers a certain amount of fun, along with 5 doors, a decent boot and sufficient rear space for shortish trips. But obviously nowhere near as big as a Leaf, so that’s probably no good for you. Everything else properly 'fun' is even smaller (i3, Mini, Honda e) or much more costly (eg iPace). The ID.3 could be worth test driving as the drive may be preferable to the eNiro, but by all accounts it’s not exactly 'fun' either.

The MX-30 is meant to be very nice to drive - could be worth a look. Then there’re the PSA group crossovers - the e2008, the Mokka etc which seem to review fairly well when it comes to the driving experience.

Generally speaking, I just think that unless someone is schlepping up and down motorways week in, week out, there are more important things to consider in a car purchase than, essentially, how big is the fuel tank...especially given the rate at which new rapid chargers are being installed.

 

[prawlin]

@Bill N Sorry Bill but on this one comment I can’t agree that Eniro isn’t a fun drive. I find it incredibly fun to drive. In fact it’s the drive over and above everything else that really does it for me. Despite my own quite long list of negatives, it still puts a big smile on my face every time I drive it. With respect I see that you don’t drive the Eniro yourself, so are you really in the position to make such a comment? I know your car is loosely similar but it’s not the same by any means. Cheers Peter.

 

[Bill N]

Most things I’ve read or watched suggest the Kona and eNiro are very similar, as you’d expect, with the Kona coming out as the slightly more 'fun' of the two. Sure, there’s an amount of fun to be had in any car, particularly any EV, but they really aren’t comparable, IMO, based on what I’ve read or watched, and based on my experience with the i3 over 2 years, as 'drivers’ cars' in the traditional sense to a couple of the alternatives I’ve mentioned.

 

[SoulGW]

Yeah, I dare not imagine how you’d try and park an eNiro/Kona/Soul without using the brake pedal! Maybe it’s been one very long drive lasting 3 weeks!

Ok, I concede i mean when driving rather than manoeuvring. Because if you read the road ahead, level 3 regen is plenty in the soul 99% of the time, pulling left paddle covers another .99% so its only if something really odd or erratic occurs I need to use the pedal. I was taught to drive leaving a decent gap - so many people drive right up the backside of the car in front - they simply couldn't rely on regen (admit, rarely see an electric car driven in that way). I am forever telling my partner when she drives to drop back a bit - and when she does she admits its far less stressful... yet next time out she is too close again....

 

[Bill N]

I was taught to drive leaving a decent gap - so many people drive right up the backside of the car in front - they simply couldn't rely on regen (admit, rarely see an electric car driven in that way).

Same here - my dad actually taught me to drive from start to finish (passed first time with barely any faults I might add!) and one lesson involved me driving from our town to the next and back - about 15 miles or so - without using the brake pedal once. No regen back then unfortunately, but of course it was a good lesson in reading the road and occasionally using the gears to slow the car.

 

[SoulGW]

I can't do the "no brake" thing in an ice car, but I get 30k out of brake pads where many friends are changing them every 5000-15000..... I rarely brake hard or that frequently, coasting down from 60 limits to 30 limits and so on...

I too never had a single lesson - dad taught me and taught me well, all my faults are mine not his teachings lol