[farmergiles]

My PCP is 8k miles per annum for 3years.
Assuming I do this mileage, and the average miles /kw to be 3, then means 8000kwh over the 3years (24000miles/ 3)
If paying upfront at, say 10p /kw, this would cost me £800 upfront for:-
Fixed kwh cost over the 3years.
Zero cost charging everywhere.
The DVLA could collect the energy useage charge when registering a new vehicle and distribute it accordingly.
Roled out across the industry, this would cut charge point operators' costs as there would be no need to collect payment.

 

[Esmi]

That would turn out to be approx £23/month. HELL YES! But ideally it would have to cover a great variety of charging networks and not restrict me to only few!

 

[Todor]

Not really useful to people like me, that will ever do ~90% of my charging sessions at home.

And you are on purpose setting an extremely low price per kWh. As a service this will never happen. The average cost in the UK is about 33p per kWh for any charging away from home.

And finally, how is the DVLA going to split the proceeds across the industry? Who gets what? Why would anyone install an ultrafast charger ~£100k investment and get the same money as a Destination charger?

 

[farmergiles]

Not a practical idea without a lot of planning but I was thinking how much simpler EV ownership could be if there was no need to sign up to different networks, or use contactless. I was including free home charging as well but it would be less easy to implement without the car communicating with the power provider as to how many kwh have been delivered.
10p/kw was an example - easy to scale upto 20 por more and adjust for higher mileage.
The technology exists but requires too much joined up thinking to ever happen.

 

[Esmi]

Common payment options and cross-network charging are definitely worth brain-storming about. My personal opinion is that it will have to happen, sooner or later once more EVs are on the road. A very exciting and interesting future is approaching for EV afficionados. To go mainstream, it has to be widely convenient!

 

[Aragorn]

Most people do most of their charging at home. Infact i'd go further, and say most EV owners wouldnt own one if they had to do all their charging publicly.

I'm not really sure i get the point. Most "up front" schemes i've found work in favour of the scheme operator, rather than the end user. Either because it gives them capital to use, or because you end up paying for some amount of thing that you end up not actually using.

 

[Esmi]

I don't think that is entirely true anymore. Especially in London the majority of the population don't even have a driveway or private parking space. So eventually public charging needs to be developed. I think that's more likely (and cheaper) than getting everybody a personal parking space. I can't charge at home, never have been able too!

 

[farmergiles]

Most people do most of their charging at home. Infact i'd go further, and say most EV owners wouldnt own one if they had to do all their charging publicly.

I'm not really sure i get the point. Most "up front" schemes i've found work in favour of the scheme operator, rather than the end user. Either because it gives them capital to use, or because you end up paying for some amount of thing that you end up not actually using.

Home charging is also included should the technology make it possible to meter it.
The operator is the DVLA as they have the payment collection system already in place for VED, AND excess mileage can be picked up by the MOT system.
As i said, needs joined up thinking by the gov and operators but would they not welcome a scheme which absolved them of payment collection and processing?
The gov/regulator/DVLA can agree an energy cost per kwh + a charging point operator fee to arrive at a fair per kwh cost. Operators who fail to maintain their charging points would not receive some of their fee, and less and less of it the longer they took to repair their chargers.

 

[s20544]

Home charging is also included should the technology make it possible to meter it.
The operator is the DVLA as they have the payment collection system already in place for VED, AND excess mileage can be picked up by the MOT system.
As i said, needs joined up thinking by the gov and operators but would they not welcome a scheme which absolved them of payment collection and processing?
The gov/regulator/DVLA can agree an energy cost per kwh + a charging point operator fee to arrive at a fair per kwh cost. Operators who fail to maintain their charging points would not receive some of their fee, and less and less of it the longer they took to repair their chargers.

A simpler option would be agreeing to the prepurchase of 20,000 , 40,000 or 60,000miles of electricity, payable monthly, as part of your three year EV lease/PCP deal BUT linked to a single energy supplier that you also switch your home energy supply to and, in an ideal world, operates plenty of public chargers which are convenient for your away from home charging.

Would this appeal?

With the immaturity of public charging I feel it would only currently only appeal to those who can charge at home. It would allow you to fix the running costs of your car for three years in the same way in which you fix the lease rate of your car

 

[farmergiles]

A simpler option would be agreeing to the prepurchase of 20,000 , 40,000 or 60,000miles of electricity, payable monthly, as part of your three year EV lease/PCP deal BUT linked to a single energy supplier that you also switch your home energy supply to and, in an ideal world, operates plenty of public chargers which are convenient for your away from home charging.

Would this appeal?

With the immaturity of public charging I feel it would only currently only appeal to those who can charge at home. It would allow you to fix the running costs of your car for three years in the same way in which you fix the lease rate of your car

yes, that would work for those mostly home charging and for charging elsewhere if the energy supplier also operated their own charging network. (or has an arrangement with one or more operators)

 

[EdH]

I thought briefly about universal rfid card that you could top up and use on any charging network, and then I thought, no, all chargers should take contactless bank cards. Any complication over that is just..........stupid.

 

[cah197]

I think I did this - I installed solar panels on my house.

Should only take 8 years to get my money back...

 

[s20544]

@farmergiles - partnership is a good idea. Perhaps a partnership between a lease company, energy supplier and a reliable nationwide public charging business (instavolt?) would work? Allowing the use and balance of your electric mileage credit to be shown on your home energy bill?

 

[farmergiles]

I think I did this - I installed solar panels on my house.

Should only take 8 years to get my money back...

if that's in Spain, in North East England, it would take about 20years. In Argyll, more like 30years. I'd need my own wind turbine and an Archimedes screw hydroelectric generator in the nearby river as well as solar panels to be self sufficient.

 

[finchlean]

My PCP is 8k miles per annum for 3years.
Assuming I do this mileage, and the average miles /kw to be 3, then means 8000kwh over the 3years (24000miles/ 3)
If paying upfront at, say 10p /kw, this would cost me £800 upfront for:-
Fixed kwh cost over the 3years.
Zero cost charging everywhere.
The DVLA could collect the energy useage charge when registering a new vehicle and distribute it accordingly.
Roled out across the industry, this would cut charge point operators' costs as there would be no need to collect payment.

This is effectively what Tesla offered early buyers. Free charging for life built in to the cost of ownership

 

[toscal353]

We have bought our power in advance for years - our house is heated by oil fired central heating! It is relevant though because doing it that way enables us to watch oil prices and top up our tank when the price is lower, typically in summer. We are not committed to paying a pre-set price. Therefore in lockdown 1 the oil prices fell through the floor and we stocked up.
The difference though is that we have the means to store oil.

 

[cah197]

if that's in Spain, in North East England, it would take about 20years. In Argyll, more like 30years. I'd need my own wind turbine and an Archimedes screw hydroelectric generator in the nearby river as well as solar panels to be self sufficient.

I did some calculations - the difference isn’t that great. I worked out you just need around 20-30% more panels in the UK. And maybe more batteries.

Sure there, would be some weeks were you wouldn’t generate anything, but this would be offset by the days when you did and fed it into the grid.

 

[cah197]

it would take about 20years. In Argyll, more like 30years.

If you’re genuinely interested, give me some post codes and I’ll do some back to back comparisons in my system for you.

 

[farmergiles]

We have bought our power in advance for years - our house is heated by oil fired central heating! It is relevant though because doing it that way enables us to watch oil prices and top up our tank when the price is lower, typically in summer. We are not committed to paying a pre-set price. Therefore in lockdown 1 the oil prices fell through the floor and we stocked up.
The difference though is that we have the means to store oil.

Yes I have oil heating and the lower prices are very welcome. They hit a low of under 20p/l last year - well under half the usual cost. I fitted a new boiler in the autumn - it's a Korean Navien condensing boiler and is way more effecient than the 28year old Worcester one. Its so efficient that the flue is plastic and of course there is no soot on it either.

 

[farmergiles]

If you’re genuinely interested, give me some post codes and I’ll do some back to back comparisons in my system for you.

Thanks for the offer but i don't have space for a decent solar array and the landlord probably wouldn't be keen. I was slightly surprised he didn't moan about my 7kw charger install but of course, if I move out, I can't take it with me so it becomes a marketing point for his agent.