Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

More charging spots or more speed

  • More spots

    Votes: 66 95.7%
  • More speed

    Votes: 3 4.3%
1 - 20 of 82 Posts

·
Registered
ID.4 Life Pure
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With Gridserves strategy to have a mix of dual capable chargers that split the speed and charging hubs that have 6-12 350kW but are one car per customer.

I'm curious to see where most people fall. Would you rather GridServe install say 10 chargers that can charge 20 cars at once but reduced speed or 10 chargers that would charge 10 cars at full speed?

I personally would prefer more charging spaces and less chance to queue. Looking at the new Mollies diner location with 3 chargers, it wouldn't take much I bet to add another 3 in the future and this location has the same capacity as Rugby.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
half speed. I often get way less than ‘full’ speed anyway if I’m topping up, so half speed that a charger can supply may actually match or exceed what my car can take depending where it is on the curve. So I’m unlikely to be ’losing’ significant charge for very long if at all.

and even 40-50kw will charge you pretty quick if you grab a coffee/sandwich and eat in the car.
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF 2.0 40kWh, Seat Mii
Joined
·
157 Posts
I've voted for more charging spots - actually ideally more chargers per spot, because I want to be able to arrive at a charger location confident that I'll be able to plug in to a working charger straight away (and then, typically, use the MSA facilities and I don't mind if charging takes 40 minutes). A 350kW charger with a 50kW car plugged into it is not a fast charger if you have to wait for it.

When planning a journey, I get very nervous about relying on a single rapid charger round the back of an obscure petrol station, unless there's a good plan B.

More spots and more speed!
Yes, which is what Gridserve will be doing soon: 6-12 350kW units in each of 50 locations.
 

·
Registered
Hyundai Ioniq 28
Joined
·
8,012 Posts
Almost all of the current cars out there can only charge at 50 kW anyway so the owners will obviously want more chargers to increase reliability and availability at any planned stop. Perhaps in a few short years, when those people have moved on to new cars that can charge fast the bias will switch. But I doubt it because by then there will be more EV's around as well. Meaning that more but faster chargers will be the demand. And by then a new player will be buying out Gridserve and ripping out their obsolete and unreliable chargers on motorways. ;)
 

·
Registered
Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
In a services scenario I want to get parked up, plugged in if necessary, and then toddle off to do the necessaries. 30-40 min stop is fine by me. Grab a snack, do a few emails.
 

·
Registered
LEAF N-TEC 62KW
Joined
·
2,050 Posts
In a services scenario I want to get parked up, plugged in if necessary, and then toddle off to do the necessaries. 30-40 min stop is fine by me. Grab a snack, do a few emails.
Yes.
My Leaf charges at near enough 1kWh per minute on a 100kw charger (max rate being 70kw) so 30-45mins is 30-45kWh - a decent charge.
On a 50kW charger the rate is 0.67kWh / minute so 45mins is 30kWh, or an hour is needed for 40kWh.
So ideally 45mins for an Ultrarapid and 1hour for 50kwh rapids with an overstay penalty - which should be a 'must'.
As charging rates increase, these times can be reduced which will be used to reduce charger install rates.
 

·
Registered
Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
Joined
·
712 Posts
I think it will be determined by price: you're in a hurry and want to charge at 250 kW for 15 minutes? Then please pay €0,75 per kWh.

If you are OK with taking it easy, here's a 40 or 50 kW charger for you at €0,30 / kWh. And if you want to charge while being parked, you'll pay €0,15 / kWh at an 11 kW charger.
 

·
Registered
ID.4 Life Pure
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
which is what Gridserve will be doing soon: 6-12 350kW units in each of 50 locations.
This is what worries me. Looking at the Cornwall plans, there will be 6 chargers for 6 cars. I'd much prefer that 350kW split (which would be more than enough for most cars for a good while) and have the capacity for 12 cars.
 

·
Registered
LEAF N-TEC 62KW
Joined
·
2,050 Posts
I think it will be determined by price: you're in a hurry and want to charge at 250 kW for 15 minutes? Then please pay €0,75 per kWh.

If you are OK with taking it easy, here's a 40 or 50 kW charger for you at €0,30 / kWh. And if you want to charge while being parked, you'll pay €0,15 / kWh at an 11 kW charger.
Not an efficient use of chargers - the 75p/kWh chargers would be underused simply because of the cost.

A better way is to simply install only ultra rapid chargers and then the max rate used by a vehicle, decides the tarrif.
 

·
Registered
Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
Not an efficient use of chargers - the 75p/kWh chargers would be underused simply because of the cost.

A better way is to simply install only ultra rapid chargers and then the max rate used by a vehicle, decides the tarrif.
That makes sense to the consumer but not the business. The cost is in the capability of the hardware and supply.
 

·
Registered
LEAF N-TEC 62KW
Joined
·
2,050 Posts
That makes sense to the consumer but not the business. The cost is in the capability of the hardware and supply.
I agree, but high prices reduces charging session numbers, which doesn't make sense to me as does only having a CCS cable.

For example, Ionity installed 4, 350kw CCS only chargers just off the A1, near me (69p/kWh) . According to Zapmap, the chargers are hardly used - not for 2 weeks for 3chargers and a day ago for the 4th.

Whereas there are 50kWh Ospreys 1/2 mile away in the M&S car park which are always in use.

So the 50kWh chargers were cheaper to install and bring in a steady revenue, whereas the Ionity's cost way more and barely bring in any revenue, even at 69p.

Makes more commercial sense to have fitted chademo cables and recognising that most EV's can only charger at 50kw, offer a more flexible tariff. (or at least until demand for 350kw chargers has increased)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
I'd hope that the load sharing was a lot more sophisticated than just a 50/50 split of available power when charging multiple cars at once... but essentially lots of charging bays that go a bit slower is to me probably preferable to a few very fast ones. Especially if they go at full speed anyway when you turn up off peak.
 

·
Registered
Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
Joined
·
712 Posts
It's all a matter of market.. Once EVs become commonplace and people start to really travel with them, especially professional users such as salesreps will want to be able to charge as quick as possible. Ionity are just preparing for the future. There's no doubt in my mind they will see their chargers fully utilized a couple of years from now on. They're being stupid in that they charge an arm and a leg at this moment with very few people actually owning an EV. In their place I would compete on price and get people hooked on their ultra fast charging speeds. Once the market is created is when you can start hiking the price.

I had to use an Ionity the other day because it was the only option available. The price is ridiculous but getting up to 80% charge in just over 30 minutes was just great. My wife loved it and said we should have used Ionity for the entire trip. Until I calculated the price difference...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,204 Posts
I'd hope that the load sharing was a lot more sophisticated than just a 50/50 split of available power when charging multiple cars at once... but essentially lots of charging bays that go a bit slower is to me probably preferable to a few very fast ones. Especially if they go at full speed anyway when you turn up off peak.
This is why Gridserve are waiting for firmware updates before making their new chargers capable of supplying both leads at once - the existing firmware would support supplying each car with 50% of the available capacity, but they consider that it is better that if one car does not need 50% of the capacity (eg. a 24kWh Leaf which has started to taper down its charging) then the second car should get the rest of what is available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
Why would you fit more Chademo when it’s dying rapidly. CCS is pretty much what every EV in the uk now has - its like bringing out a new range of Betamax video recorders!
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF 2.0 40kWh, Seat Mii
Joined
·
157 Posts
This is why Gridserve are waiting for firmware updates before making their new chargers capable of supplying both leads at once - the existing firmware would support supplying each car with 50% of the available capacity, but they consider that it is better that if one car does not need 50% of the capacity (eg. a 24kWh Leaf which has started to taper down its charging) then the second car should get the rest of what is available.
Not only that, but the existing firmware would give you only half the rated capacity even if the other cable was not being used at all. This would arguably not go down well.
 
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
Top