Would you support legalization of e-scooters?
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Legislation or legalisation? They're already legal. (Edit, apparently not!)
I think that they're great when ridden courteously. I doubt that requiring paperwork to ride them will get rid of the assholes. It doesn't for cars...
An e-scooter scheme has just started in Newcastle. Predictably lots of idiots tearing around the place (many on a stolen driving licence and credit card I would imagine), but there are also lots of sensible riders around. I hope they stay, as they're a really good addition to the grey area between public and private transport. I suspect too many will end up in the Tyne, and they'll disappear after the end of the year-long trial.
I think that they're great when ridden courteously. I doubt that requiring paperwork to ride them will get rid of the assholes. It doesn't for cars...
An e-scooter scheme has just started in Newcastle. Predictably lots of idiots tearing around the place (many on a stolen driving licence and credit card I would imagine), but there are also lots of sensible riders around. I hope they stay, as they're a really good addition to the grey area between public and private transport. I suspect too many will end up in the Tyne, and they'll disappear after the end of the year-long trial.
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Had to answer "I don't know" because it depends so much on what form making them legal to use takes.
If they were classed a bit like mopeds, and had to abide by much the same laws, so needed insurance, perhaps some form of registration, riders needed to be over a certain age, wear helmets and could only be ridden on roads (not footpaths or pavements) then yes, they should be made legal to use, no question.
If the idea was to allow them to be ridden as they are now, on pavements and footpaths, by some younger riders that frankly aren't that safe on the things, and who endanger the lives of pedestrians, then I'd be very strongly opposed to making them legal to use.
The biggest issue, by far, isn't the legality of the things, but the inability of the police to do anything about them. There are a few youngsters that whizz around the village here on them, usually half on the pavement, half on the road, and one or two of them are such a damned nuisance that they've been reported several times for their actions (not by me - but my partially-sighted neighbour has been on a crusade for months now).
The police just refuse to do anything, even when they've been given the identity of the culprit and shown CCTV of incidents (the village shopkeeper is another one concerned about them). It doesn't matter much whether they are made legal to use or not, and if they were what those laws stipulated, as kids are still going to carry on as they do now, anyway. Last summer I was asked by the crusading neighbour if there was a way to disable the things, without harming the rider, so feelings are running high about the way some ride them. I think she thought I might be able to come up with some sort of EMP gun, that might fry the electronics . . .
If they were classed a bit like mopeds, and had to abide by much the same laws, so needed insurance, perhaps some form of registration, riders needed to be over a certain age, wear helmets and could only be ridden on roads (not footpaths or pavements) then yes, they should be made legal to use, no question.
If the idea was to allow them to be ridden as they are now, on pavements and footpaths, by some younger riders that frankly aren't that safe on the things, and who endanger the lives of pedestrians, then I'd be very strongly opposed to making them legal to use.
The biggest issue, by far, isn't the legality of the things, but the inability of the police to do anything about them. There are a few youngsters that whizz around the village here on them, usually half on the pavement, half on the road, and one or two of them are such a damned nuisance that they've been reported several times for their actions (not by me - but my partially-sighted neighbour has been on a crusade for months now).
The police just refuse to do anything, even when they've been given the identity of the culprit and shown CCTV of incidents (the village shopkeeper is another one concerned about them). It doesn't matter much whether they are made legal to use or not, and if they were what those laws stipulated, as kids are still going to carry on as they do now, anyway. Last summer I was asked by the crusading neighbour if there was a way to disable the things, without harming the rider, so feelings are running high about the way some ride them. I think she thought I might be able to come up with some sort of EMP gun, that might fry the electronics . . .
What do you mean legalize?
Loads of of private ones speeding around the redways in Milton Keynes, unlit in the dark, ridden by morons and generally making the cyclists look like model, polite citizens; surely if they were illegal, nobody would be able to buy and use them like this? The police would be cracking down on them, issuing fines, making a huge amount of money and generally stopping them?
(just in case it isn't obvious, this is clear sarcasm)
Loads of of private ones speeding around the redways in Milton Keynes, unlit in the dark, ridden by morons and generally making the cyclists look like model, polite citizens; surely if they were illegal, nobody would be able to buy and use them like this? The police would be cracking down on them, issuing fines, making a huge amount of money and generally stopping them?
(just in case it isn't obvious, this is clear sarcasm)
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Treat them legally the same as electric-assist bicycles. Don't allow them on footways where bicycles aren't allowed. They can use cycle tracks, bus lanes etc. Same construction and use requirements in legislation as bicycles. Change the legislation to allow electric bicycles that don't need pedal assist, but allows throttle controls - because they don't have pedals. Job done.
Bicycles need lights etc at night, so should these electric mini-scooters.
Bicycles need lights etc at night, so should these electric mini-scooters.
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AFAIK they are only legal in areas that are trialling them. Personal electric scooters are not legal, only those covered under the trials are.
IIRC there are six cities/urban areas that are trialling them, Derby where I live, being one of them. Tbh I think they are an accident waiting to happen. There isn't the infrastructure available to make them a viable option as pavement riding is forbidden and certainly here in Derby the provision of cyclepaths is almost non-existant, therefore if being ridden legally the should be on the roads, but with the atrocious state of them, potholes everywhere, it's the last plce I'd want to ride.
Of course, now that trials are underway lots of other people are riding illegal scooters in the area, bringing their own brand of anarchy to the roads and pavements too. I'm all for anything that gets people out of their cars, especially in cities, but e-scooters would be the last thing I'd be considering.
Then again they trialled e-bikes in Derby a few yeas ago. That didn't go well, with most of them ending up in the River Derwent, which is where most of the scooters will end up too.
Tl;dr nice idea but bound for failure due to too many wankers in our society.
IIRC there are six cities/urban areas that are trialling them, Derby where I live, being one of them. Tbh I think they are an accident waiting to happen. There isn't the infrastructure available to make them a viable option as pavement riding is forbidden and certainly here in Derby the provision of cyclepaths is almost non-existant, therefore if being ridden legally the should be on the roads, but with the atrocious state of them, potholes everywhere, it's the last plce I'd want to ride.
Of course, now that trials are underway lots of other people are riding illegal scooters in the area, bringing their own brand of anarchy to the roads and pavements too. I'm all for anything that gets people out of their cars, especially in cities, but e-scooters would be the last thing I'd be considering.
Then again they trialled e-bikes in Derby a few yeas ago. That didn't go well, with most of them ending up in the River Derwent, which is where most of the scooters will end up too.
Tl;dr nice idea but bound for failure due to too many wankers in our society.
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The legality is complex. It is perfectly legal to import them, sell them and own them, there are no laws preventing this, so in this context they are perfectly legal. It's also perfectly legal to ride them on private land that does not have public access, so around someone's garden is fine.
The offence is committed when one is ridden on a public highway that doesn't have an exemption in place, so the majority of roads, pavements, footpaths, bridle paths etc in the UK.
The offence is committed when one is ridden on a public highway that doesn't have an exemption in place, so the majority of roads, pavements, footpaths, bridle paths etc in the UK.
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And this is exactly why I voted......NO
I didn't realise they were illegal to ride outside the trials.
One more thing. The ones in Newcastle are limited 22 km/h. That seems to be too fast for pavements (which they shouldn't be on, but I can see why cyclists sometimes are) and too slow for the real roads. Having ridden one a few times in the last week, I have stuck to quiet roads and protected cycle paths. I wouldn't fancy mixing with fast traffic.
But like I said above, most of the complaints levelled at them - you're on the pavement, you haven't got a license (need at least a provisional), you ride without courtesy, you park like a asshole - could equally be levelled at motorists, cyclists and even pedestrians. It's assholes who we need to get rid of, not what they're piloting.
One more thing. The ones in Newcastle are limited 22 km/h. That seems to be too fast for pavements (which they shouldn't be on, but I can see why cyclists sometimes are) and too slow for the real roads. Having ridden one a few times in the last week, I have stuck to quiet roads and protected cycle paths. I wouldn't fancy mixing with fast traffic.
But like I said above, most of the complaints levelled at them - you're on the pavement, you haven't got a license (need at least a provisional), you ride without courtesy, you park like a asshole - could equally be levelled at motorists, cyclists and even pedestrians. It's assholes who we need to get rid of, not what they're piloting.
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I said I don't know. I'd like to say yes, but the wrong folk seem to use them from what I've seen. Mind you who are the right people? What I have seen, living in an area where they are not legal, is an increase of well off parents buying these for their tweens. Not the kids noisy scooters, but the silent adult sized ones, and these kids have almost zero road sense from what I've seen. None have been through Bikeability at the local School. I see them riding up middle of roads, swerving about, jumping up and down onto paths to take short cuts. Someone's going to get hurt or worse.
Agree with your sentiments , but unfortunately we are giving assholes even more tools with these scooters. And these scooters are cheap. If assholes were zooming around on mini Motos (remember that fad a few years ago?) the police would be stamping it out. I can't really see the difference with these scooters other than the fact they are silent.
Cars need license and insurance. Pushbikes need effort, even electric bikes, and are more expensive in the first place. Bikes shouldn't be on the pavement, these certainly shouldn't be, though they are absolutely not safe for the roads with those tiny wheels.
Lots of things are legal to buy, doesn't mean you can legally use them wherever you want.
I could buy a ride on lawnmower for my garden but I couldn't ride that into town and buzz around my local shopping centre!
Apparently it is ok to use an e-bike at 30+mph, but a scooter is dangerous. Or is it just that an e-bike costs a lot more money so you see less idiots on them at the moment, vs a scooter than can cost as little as £150. Once e-bikes are £200 then I am sure everyone will be calling them an utter menace and cyclists are totally irresponsible w***ers
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I believe that road-legal E-bikes are still electronically limited to have no motor power above about 15 mph, IIRC, so any that are doing 30 mph on any public highway are either being pedalled very hard or are really mopeds that are being ridden without registration, type approval, insurance etc. Like electric scooters, these things just aren't properly policed.
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They should be legal, with the same rules as electric cycles - limited to 15 mph, not on pavements, lights at night*, must follow the rules of the road.
I've been overtaken by one when riding my e-cycle, so more than 15 mph and nearly hit one in an Aldi car park - I drove forward towards a space, had to reverse back a little to get the right line, as I started to move forwards into the space an e-scooter shot in front of me.
* not that many cyclists do
I've been overtaken by one when riding my e-cycle, so more than 15 mph and nearly hit one in an Aldi car park - I drove forward towards a space, had to reverse back a little to get the right line, as I started to move forwards into the space an e-scooter shot in front of me.
* not that many cyclists do
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Darwin rules.
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I can't see any good reason they, or indeed any other 'slow' electric or electrified bicycle, should not be allowed to do whatever it is bicycles are allowed to do.
I can do 30mph on the flat on a bicycle, so an electric thing that is limited to 25mph what's the issue? I don't get this 'it hasn't got pedals' thing, as if one cannot pedal faster than 25mph!?
I used to play games seeing if I could set off a speed camera on a bike. No law against speeding on a bicycle, only some 19th century law applies banning 'riding furiously', IIRC.
I can do 30mph on the flat on a bicycle, so an electric thing that is limited to 25mph what's the issue? I don't get this 'it hasn't got pedals' thing, as if one cannot pedal faster than 25mph!?
I used to play games seeing if I could set off a speed camera on a bike.
No law against speeding on a bicycle, only some 19th century law applies banning 'riding furiously', IIRC.
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Do you have the K type of vehicle on your license, this covers pedestrian controlled and I believe ride on lawnmowers, it was added automatically if you passed a car or motorbike test. I recall long ago someone taking a lawn mower test
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I can't see any good reason they, or indeed any other 'slow' electric or electrified bicycle, should not be allowed to do whatever it is bicycles are allowed to do.
I can do 30mph on the flat on a bicycle, so an electric thing that is limited to 25mph what's the issue? I don't get this 'it hasn't got pedals' thing, as if one cannot pedal faster than 25mph!?
I used to play games seeing if I could set off a speed camera on a bike.
TBH, I never understood the reasoning behind the 15mph limit on motor assistance for electric bikes. There seemed to me to be far too much red tape surrounding something that was intrinsically little, if any, more dangerous to anyone than an ordinary bicycle.
The same goes for the ban on having throttle controls on E-bikes, and insisting that the motor be controlled by pedal motion. In general, it seems that many of the rules and restrictions on E-bikes are widely ignored, anyway, bit like the use of electric scooters.
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