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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Maybe you can stop it by shooting my idea down? Just be gentle.

The facts: I have an original Toyota 5m charging cable with CCID (10A) and ending in a 3 pin 13A plug. The ideal place for my car is unfortunately outside, 22m away from my nearest domestic socket (RCD protected, nothing else plugged in). I am not allowed to alter the house's wiring. I would prefer armoured cable as foxes about. I have read the Toyota manual: Just need the safest way to ignore it.

Three electricians have fed back. The consensus was that altering the house wiring is best, extending 2.5mm 16A cable to a socket next to the car. Not possible. So one said that instead plugging in an extension cable should be ok at that distance - ideally 2.5mm 16A or at a push 1.5mm.

However: 2.5mm only works with commando socketed cable so I would need to use 3 pin adapters at both ends (e.g. at the car end
16amp 230V IP44 Plug to 13amp Socket Block Adapter and the reverse). Yes, connected outside in an IP rated box.

Questions:
1. Do the adapters negate the benefit of having 2.5mm 16A cable across 98% of the distance?
2. To reduce the adapters could I just lop off the 2.5mm extension's car end commando plug and run the cable straight into the CCID (first removing the charger's 3 pin 13A plug and cable but leaving the CCID in-plug)? After all there would still be a 13A fuse at the domestic end. Though the 2.5mm might be too thick to fit the CCID, especially if armoured.
3. Given the issues should I give up on 2.5mm and fall back to the 1.5mm basic extension (and run into the CCID or not to minimise connectors)

Thoughts appreciated.
 

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you can use 2.5mm with normal 13A plug/sockets. Its a bit of a tight fit, but it does work, i've done it.

An extension cable is fine. People seem to have fits about them, but really theres no problem, so long as its a quality lead with the right size flex. I use a 1.5mm extension when i'm out and about and might need to plug in at a friends etc.

Use H07RN-F. Armoured flex doesnt exist, but H07RN-F has a very thick heavy duty rubber sheath.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good to hear about 2.5mm fitting a plug but does that include H07RN-F?

It could mean I can do away with the whole 16A commando plug thing especially if the standard 13A three pin at the end makes it basically the same solution (with more risks becasue of adapters).

This is armoured flex, no? 13A Lead with SY Cable

Spoke to the guy there and he said 2.5mm armoured definitely doesn't fit a standard 3 pin.
 

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yes, My 13A to commando adaptor is 2.5mm H07RN-F. Like i say, its a bit tight, but it works fine. I had to cut a small piece of plastic away from the cord grip on the duraplug trailing socket to get the cover on properly.

SY isnt really armoured. Its a double sheathed control cable that has a metal braid in between the two layers, but the sheath is intended as sheilding, rather than armour.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
yes, My 13A to commando adaptor is 2.5mm H07RN-F. Like i say, its a bit tight, but it works fine. I had to cut a small piece of plastic away from the cord grip on the duraplug trailing socket to get the cover on properly.

SY isnt really armoured. Its a double sheathed control cable that has a metal braid in between the two layers, but the sheath is intended as sheilding, rather than armour.
Thanks thats good to know. But if it's possible to run 2.5mm direct out of my 13A plug I'm left wondering whether including commando in the sequence (inc the adapters to commando and then from commando) adds anything. Presumably the 16A fuse on commando would be redundant in that sequence?
 

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What I would do;
-Install a 32A shuttered commando at the house,putting it on its own spur. You can then use this for anything in the future,maybe even plug in a charge point.
-Buy or make up a 32A plug to 16A trailing commando socket. You could do this in a custom fashion with some sort of junction box at house end and either a permanent or trailing socket where your car is, with armoured cable in between
-Convert your existing lead with a 16A commando plug making it waterproof (note; there may be thermal sensor built into the plug which might cause a problem, in which case fit a waterproof 3 pin socket at the car end
You'd then be set up to reconfigure the system any time you like.

basically, rather than install a fixed connection at the house, install a 32A socket and then do the rest much the same.

2.5mm^2 does fit into a 3pin, I have likewise made a lead like this. But you might want to use 4mm^2 armoured with commandos then it will just about cope with the maximum 30A rating too if you reconfigure later.
 

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If the problem is really the inability to add any wiring to the house then just run a heavy duty extension to a waterproof box where the standard 5m cable can then be plugged in. Many people have used such a power supply for years without any issues - despite all the howls of protest. Just check the house end plug top for heat build up regularly.

If an additional issue is fox attack fear ( I don't understand how real this could be but - hey - ) then the extension cable could be protected by running it through a conduit and the plug re-attached. But I can't think why a fox would choose to chew on a rubber cable in the first place.
 

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Difficult to come up with sensible suggestions without seeing the place first.

If you are worried about wildlife nibbling the insulation etc then SY cable could be a good idea, especially if you can use the proper SY glands at both ends to earth the braided shield. This is not as tough as SWA but is easier to bend and will tend to earth a metal object penetrating the cable before it touches a live conductor.

At the car end use a standard outdoor waterproof wall mounted socket and terminate the SY to that, then put the whole thing in one of those garden electrical connector boxes if you cannot attach it to something?

At the house end terminate the SY cable into a junction box - possibly temporarily hung on the wall next to 13a house socket with short lead to 13a plug?
 

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SY isnt really armoured. Its a double sheathed control cable that has a metal braid in between the two layers, but the sheath is intended as sheilding, rather than armour.
In particuar, SY doesn't meet the objective with armoured that a spade through the cable will blow a fuse and make the cable safe - the braid on SY is thin enough that it will probably melt quicker than the fuse/breaker will open. However, that's not critical to your application since you have RCD protection.

Other disadvantages to SY are the difficulty of properly terminating the braid into ordinary plugs/sockets, and the fact that it's PVC-sheathed means it becomes inflexible at low temperatures and is susceptable to UV damage if left outdoors in sunlight for long periods.

@Surrey Plum 's suggestion of a surface mount socket at the far end and an adaptable box to transition to a short length of standard cable to the plug is a good one, allowing you to terminate the braid properly and also allowing you to use a large cable without the problem of terminating it into a 13A plug. You could even use "real" armoured cable in that configuration if there was actually a reason to do so (if you wanted to bury it in the flowerbeds or under gravel etc. to avoid trip hazard), though probably overkill.

At the car end, mounting the socket on a bit of fencepost sunk in the ground may be better than leaving it at ground level.

At the house end, you need to be concerned whether "not allowed to alter the house wiring" permits you to replace the 13A socket you are using if it is in poor condition (maybe it's a shiny new one of high quality, but if it's an old one of indifferent quality that's been outdoors for years, that's probably the weakest link in the whole setup).
 

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At the house end, you need to be concerned whether "not allowed to alter the house wiring" permits you to replace the 13A socket you are using if it is in poor condition (maybe it's a shiny new one of high quality, but if it's an old one of indifferent quality that's been outdoors for years, that's probably the weakest link in the whole setup).
Are you a tenant?

I wonder if a trip to citizens advice could assist you.

Refusal to allow something like this fitted (at your own expense, and with qualified sparky) is probably unreasonable and possibly interferes with your quiet enjoyment.
 

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Do foxes really chew cables? Isn't it more likely to be rats & mice? And if they really are going to chew them then you should be worrying more about your expensive Toyota charging cable than your cheap extension lead.

I'd just buy a 20m single socket heavy duty 13amp 2.5mm cable extension lead and a DRiBOX 285 meduim perfect for our 2 way outdoor extension leads and worry about cable damage if/when it happens.

If you want to add a bit more protection I'd buy some garden hose and put the electrical cable inside that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
you can use 2.5mm with normal 13A plug/sockets. Its a bit of a tight fit, but it does work, i've done it.

An extension cable is fine. People seem to have fits about them, but really theres no problem, so long as its a quality lead with the right size flex. I use a 1.5mm extension when i'm out and about and might need to plug in at a friends etc.

Use H07RN-F. Armoured flex doesnt exist, but H07RN-F has a very thick heavy duty rubber sheath.
What I would do;
-Install a 32A shuttered commando at the house,putting it on its own spur. You can then use this for anything in the future,maybe even plug in a charge point.
-Buy or make up a 32A plug to 16A trailing commando socket. You could do this in a custom fashion with some sort of junction box at house end and either a permanent or trailing socket where your car is, with armoured cable in between
-Convert your existing lead with a 16A commando plug making it waterproof (note; there may be thermal sensor built into the plug which might cause a problem, in which case fit a waterproof 3 pin socket at the car end
You'd then be set up to reconfigure the system any time you like.

basically, rather than install a fixed connection at the house, install a 32A socket and then do the rest much the same.

2.5mm^2 does fit into a 3pin, I have likewise made a lead like this. But you might want to use 4mm^2 armoured with commandos then it will just about cope with the maximum 30A rating too if you reconfigure later.
Thanks for the advice - will definitely follow it when not renting. Landlord not keen on "unecessary" mods
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If the problem is really the inability to add any wiring to the house then just run a heavy duty extension to a waterproof box where the standard 5m cable can then be plugged in. Many people have used such a power supply for years without any issues - despite all the howls of protest. Just check the house end plug top for heat build up regularly.

If an additional issue is fox attack fear ( I don't understand how real this could be but - hey - ) then the extension cable could be protected by running it through a conduit and the plug re-attached. But I can't think why a fox would choose to chew on a rubber cable in the first place.
Done just this and first trial yesterday worked fine. Plugs warm but nothing serious.

Got a fox den about 20 meters from the car and there seems to be some evidence, supplied by defeatist electricians, that they like to chew on rubber especially now, when the cubs start leaving home. Most of the cable is inside a plastic ramp but for the exposed bits I am probably going to fit a kevlar braided cable sleeve or plastic conduit. Overkill, maybe. But my kids are attached to the foxes.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Difficult to come up with sensible suggestions without seeing the place first.

If you are worried about wildlife nibbling the insulation etc then SY cable could be a good idea, especially if you can use the proper SY glands at both ends to earth the braided shield. This is not as tough as SWA but is easier to bend and will tend to earth a metal object penetrating the cable before it touches a live conductor.

At the car end use a standard outdoor waterproof wall mounted socket and terminate the SY to that, then put the whole thing in one of those garden electrical connector boxes if you cannot attach it to something?

At the house end terminate the SY cable into a junction box - possibly temporarily hung on the wall next to 13a house socket with short lead to 13a plug?
Thanks, went for a tough rubber 2.5mm cable in the end to avoid the earthing requirment which is above my pay grade. 13A plug and socket (plus dry box) at the ends. Most of the cable is now in a ramp which protects it as a few cars will probably pass over it. For the rest looking at protective sleeving or conduit. First charge worked ok!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
In particuar, SY doesn't meet the objective with armoured that a spade through the cable will blow a fuse and make the cable safe - the braid on SY is thin enough that it will probably melt quicker than the fuse/breaker will open. However, that's not critical to your application since you have RCD protection.

Other disadvantages to SY are the difficulty of properly terminating the braid into ordinary plugs/sockets, and the fact that it's PVC-sheathed means it becomes inflexible at low temperatures and is susceptable to UV damage if left outdoors in sunlight for long periods.

@Surrey Plum 's suggestion of a surface mount socket at the far end and an adaptable box to transition to a short length of standard cable to the plug is a good one, allowing you to terminate the braid properly and also allowing you to use a large cable without the problem of terminating it into a 13A plug. You could even use "real" armoured cable in that configuration if there was actually a reason to do so (if you wanted to bury it in the flowerbeds or under gravel etc. to avoid trip hazard), though probably overkill.

At the car end, mounting the socket on a bit of fencepost sunk in the ground may be better than leaving it at ground level.

At the house end, you need to be concerned whether "not allowed to alter the house wiring" permits you to replace the 13A socket you are using if it is in poor condition (maybe it's a shiny new one of high quality, but if it's an old one of indifferent quality that's been outdoors for years, that's probably the weakest link in the whole setup).
That's all good advice, thanks. I've ended up with 2.5mm rubber cable from the 13A indoor domestic socket to a 13A socket for the charging cable. Not regulation but minimises the number of adaptors in the chain. The home socket and wiring generally is up to standard: Landlord's a housebuilder. Looking at more sustainable and fixed solutions however.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Are you a tenant?

I wonder if a trip to citizens advice could assist you.

Refusal to allow something like this fitted (at your own expense, and with qualified sparky) is probably unreasonable and possibly interferes with your quiet enjoyment.
That's a good point. Trying a more temporary cable setup right now but would like to make it more permanent and actually safer. Will weigh up taking this route.
 

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If the problem is really the inability to add any wiring to the house then just run a heavy duty extension to a waterproof box where the standard 5m cable can then be plugged in. Many people have used such a power supply for years without any issues - despite all the howls of protest. Just check the house end plug top for heat build up regularly.

If an additional issue is fox attack fear ( I don't understand how real this could be but - hey - ) then the extension cable could be protected by running it through a conduit and the plug re-attached. But I can't think why a fox would choose to chew on a rubber cable in the first place.
A few years ago our Sky TV stopped working. Sky came round to investigate and found that something had chewed right through the cable near ground level. We do get a fox in our garden but also get squirrels so not really sure who was the culprit. After the obligatory jokes about FOX TV the engineer said this was a fairly common occurrence. After that I boxed over the other accessible cables around the house with plastic guttering, looks neater than it sounds......
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Do foxes really chew cables? Isn't it more likely to be rats & mice? And if they really are going to chew them then you should be worrying more about your expensive Toyota charging cable than your cheap extension lead.

I'd just buy a 20m single socket heavy duty 13amp 2.5mm cable extension lead and a DRiBOX 285 meduim perfect for our 2 way outdoor extension leads and worry about cable damage if/when it happens.

If you want to add a bit more protection I'd buy some garden hose and put the electrical cable inside that.
Take your point about the expensive cable. Have rigged it up so that it's mid-air to protect it from everything but those flying foxes. Apparently they like chewing rubber especially at this time of year. I did go ahead and get that cable and a (smaller) dribox so thanks for the tip. It must be about the only place prepared to sell this configuration which goes against the BS guidelines. In fact I see they used oil to wedge in the cable. Fingers crossed though, eh.

Hose is a good idea but am wondering if it would heat the cable. Am also looking at Kevlar braided cable sleeve. Probably spent enough on this now so the former likely to win out.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
A few years ago our Sky TV stopped working. Sky came round to investigate and found that something had chewed right through the cable near ground level. We do get a fox in our garden but also get squirrels so not really sure who was the culprit. After the obligatory jokes about FOX TV the engineer said this was a fairly common occurrence. After that I boxed over the other accessible cables around the house with plastic guttering, looks neater than it sounds......
FYI these guys do a rodent deterring cable sleeve. Not scientifically tested and probably just doused with nasty chemicals (note the health warning) but maybe worth a try for anyone reading this...

Techflex - Flexo Rodent Resistance
 

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I'm sure you're already aware, but make sure the extension cable isn't coiled up when in use.
 
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