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Discussion Starter #102 (Edited)
It's funny that when I said [something like] '22kW Zoe would be fine for me, especially as I always charge early and the charge rate is much the same over 50%'... 'oh no', I was told, 'CCS will still be so superior'.

I'd have to deep dive into who exactly said what exactly, but that's what my failing memory recollects. I guess we can revisit that sometime.
Disclaimer: fanboy if you already didn't notice.

Regardless of what others say, if the 22kW charger suits you fully, sure, it's what's best for you. I chose the CCS version for two reasons, first one is a bit convoluted:

1. on longer journeys, as long as the charging rate is higher than the consumption rate, I am gaining time. I disagree with Tesla Bjorn when he says one should leave the charging station when the rate drops below 37kW or so (pretty arbitrary), as they are losing time; this is utter nonsense, unless we're talking about e-Tron or iPace. In less thirsty EVs, the consumption rate at motorway speeds is about 20-25kW so charging at any rate above that results in a time gain. Zoe sits at about 22kW - hence my previous Zoe's cadence was 1 hour driving to 1 hour charging (please discount winter and topography)

A 32kW (average, DC) vs 22kW (consistent, AC) charging rate over 80% of the battery (from 10% to 90%) is an almost 50% increase in charging rate, so one will gain time on long journeys. Note that the Zoe still charges at 25kW up until 90% on CCS, which cannot be said of many other vehicles in its class/price range; yes, the exception is the MG. The ZE50 then, with CCS, has a cadence of 1.5 hours of driving to 1 hour of charging; 50% improvement. (One can tweak up to 2 hr driving / 1 hr charging if charging stations are available pretty close to each other and you can charge between 10% and 50% consistently)

Based on the graph shown above, the ioniq has to leave when the battery is at 73%, otherwise it's losing time; its charging rate drops below motorway consumption rate. Zoe and MG can still charge up until 90% at above the consumption rate, thus gaining time overall. If the Zoe would have dropped the charging rate to 14kW on CCS at 73%, like the ioniq, CCS would probably not have been justified at all on Zoe. The choice is between charge at a fast rate for short periods of time and stop often (ioniq, leaf) vs charge at medium speeds over longer periods of time and stop less often (zoe).

With the MG one must go below 10-12% to get the full charge rate I believe, which I find odd. If I arrive with 15% at the charging station, I will not get the full/high rate (see Bjorn's 1000km stint); it charges slower than Zoe. It may also be that I will not be able to reach the next 50kW charging station safely with the remaining 15% and probably the "fastest" way to charge would be to first use up 5% of the battery by going round and round the motorway services... I think this is where Zoe's design is slightly better, because it's charging consistently, doesn't have arbitrary points.


2. when I reach a charging station, I have the choice of CCS DC or Type-2 AC, just like the majority of other cars, with the exception that Zoe charges at 22kW on AC; so yeah, the charging rate drops by 33% if the CCS plug is in use, but it's still faster than other EVs for which the charge rate would drop over 80% (7kW AC vs 50kW DC for MG as example). So this gives some additional margin of safety, more "pumps" available.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
Got bored. Made some calculations with consumption data from what I found on the internet (18kW for Zoe and 19kW for MG), sort of a head to head between Zoe and MG ZS EV and it seems that given the same conditions, to charge the same range, 92 miles (80% of MG's battery), takes 44 minutes on MG and 49 minutes on ZE50 on a 50kW unit.

On a 1,000 km (625 miles, 10hrs driving) trip, MG will be 30 minutes faster than a Zoe, only if you can get the MG at 10% SOH at the start of each charge.
 

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Why would the MG have to be at 10%? For the first leg yes I'd agree, subsequent legs if your whizzing along then you'll get fastest charging speed all the way to 50% SOC then it drops 10kW to 36kW and stays there until 80% when it tanks.

Not sure what yuour 18kW and 19kW is in reference to but yesterday I stopped at a Rapid with 11% in car and I added 32.31kW in 45mins 10seconds. Based on the displayed range, and the fact my car is averaging 4mpkWh that means I'd have 128miles range not 92miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
My understanding from Bjorn's 1000km test drive was that unless the battery SOC is at or below 10-12%, the charging rate will be low, regardless of the battery temperature, but I've never tested it myself so I could have got it wrong; what I've seen in his livestream was that the MG struggled to get above 36kW on almost every leg. The charging curve from the previous page shows that the MG does keep a high rate for longer, 45kW until 82%, but, again, that's not an official document so it could have incorrect data.

The information about the consumption was from ev-database.org; I used primarily the WLTP estimated consumption, not the real world consumption.

Is your 4 mpkwh the consumption at highway speed, as in 70mph? That sounds to me more like what a Model 3 achieves.
 

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I agree, Bjorn tested the MG and it barely got 40kw each leg. The consumption was also terrible, mainly cos it’s front is about as aerodynamic as a brick. The zoe will do better as it’s a proper EV design.
Let’s not mention the MG dashboard 🤮
 

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I have to say the on thing I take away from Bjorns videos is that he has made his mind up that driving fast and charging often is the most efficient way, based on some early finding but that doesn't always prove true for all EVs so then he blames the EV. He also uses cruise on some cars but not others which gives inconsistent results. I find driving with traffic and slowing a little to maximise range when below 25% remaining means you get good range and confidence to drop to 10-15% before charging knowing you've still got a bit of contingency range if you find an offline charger location. But your results may vary of course.

The information about the consumption was from ev-database.org; I used primarily the WLTP estimated consumption, not the real world consumption.

Is your 4 mpkwh the consumption at highway speed, as in 70mph? That sounds to me more like what a Model 3 achieves.
Did you also base your Zoe figures on the ev-database or on your own findings? I personally find the EV-database very inaccurate, they speculate on cars before release then never revisit once the car is on the market.

I also find WLTP to be more of an poor estimate. Too easily gamed by manufacturers. A couple of miles at 80mph doing 2mpkWh has little impact if you've tailored your EV to be mega efficient at 56mph.

At 70mph I find most EVs get the same mpkWh. 3.6 -3.7. But its pretty hard to drive any meaningful distance at 70mph due to traffic. My findings are based on mixed driving, dual carriageway, single carriage way A roads and more rural B roads.

Let’s not mention the MG dashboard 🤮
Why? Looks like a dash, give you the info you need without looking like a glary 10" computer screen?
 

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I have to say the on thing I take away from Bjorns videos is that he has made his mind up that driving fast and charging often is the most efficient way, based on some early finding but that doesn't always prove true for all EVs so then he blames the EV. He also uses cruise on some cars but not others which gives inconsistent results. I find driving with traffic and slowing a little to maximise range when below 25% remaining means you get good range and confidence to drop to 10-15% before charging knowing you've still got a bit of contingency range if you find an offline charger location. But your results may vary of course.



Did you also base your Zoe figures on the ev-database or on your own findings? I personally find the EV-database very inaccurate, they speculate on cars before release then never revisit once the car is on the market.

I also find WLTP to be more of an poor estimate. Too easily gamed by manufacturers. A couple of miles at 80mph doing 2mpkWh has little impact if you've tailored your EV to be mega efficient at 56mph.

At 70mph I find most EVs get the same mpkWh. 3.6 -3.7. But its pretty hard to drive any meaningful distance at 70mph due to traffic. My findings are based on mixed driving, dual carriageway, single carriage way A roads and more rural B roads.



Why? Looks like a dash, give you the info you need without looking like a glary 10" computer screen?
For a £24k car in 2020 I don’t expect dials, it’s like it’s 20 years old. The battery display is even a dial! It’s the reason I didn’t even bother test driving the MG after seeing that in the promo pics
 

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Discussion Starter #109
I have to say the on thing I take away from Bjorns videos is that he has made his mind up that driving fast and charging often is the most efficient way, based on some early finding but that doesn't always prove true for all EVs so then he blames the EV. He also uses cruise on some cars but not others which gives inconsistent results. I find driving with traffic and slowing a little to maximise range when below 25% remaining means you get good range and confidence to drop to 10-15% before charging knowing you've still got a bit of contingency range if you find an offline charger location. But your results may vary of course.



Did you also base your Zoe figures on the ev-database or on your own findings? I personally find the EV-database very inaccurate, they speculate on cars before release then never revisit once the car is on the market.

I also find WLTP to be more of an poor estimate. Too easily gamed by manufacturers. A couple of miles at 80mph doing 2mpkWh has little impact if you've tailored your EV to be mega efficient at 56mph.

At 70mph I find most EVs get the same mpkWh. 3.6 -3.7. But its pretty hard to drive any meaningful distance at 70mph due to traffic. My findings are based on mixed driving, dual carriageway, single carriage way A roads and more rural B roads.



Why? Looks like a dash, give you the info you need without looking like a glary 10" computer screen?
Indeed, Bjorn's a biased in what counts as ideal driving, plus not many do 1000km in a stretch regularly, and I would also extend this to the idea that he makes up his mind about a car before driving it, which doesn't allow him to learn from the first 2-3 legs how the car behaves. On the other hand, he does find sometimes weak points that would go unnoticed for a long time, such as cruise control not using regen or specific triggers for lower charge rate.

I doubt WLTP or any other test would provide a reasonable number, since there are too many variables to account for (temperature, road conditions, topography, car weight - 1 person vs 3 people, different speeds), but, from experience I had so far, 18kWh/100km (3.4mpkwh) for Zoe <<seems>> achievable in spring (15C, dry roads, pretty much flat road, 2 people in the car, mixed road types). I say seems, because I don't have the patience/reason to drive 300+km in one stretch currently; but soon hopefully, if I get the new job.

Personally I also find it difficult to drive at a constant 70mph but for a different reason, it's either 87mph (fast lane) or 56mph (truck lane).

Anyways, my point was not to show that the MG is a poor choice and I am aware I may have come across like that; I'll choose the ioniq/leaf next time for comparison. If the MG brings you value, that's great. Ref the dash, last time I drove a petrol car, it didn't say how many litres of fuel it had inside, nor any percentage of what's in the tank, just a pretty rubbish estimation of the remaining range; true that an EV is limited in range, so knowing exactly how much is left is an asset, but I gather one gets the hang of it after a few drives on when to worry and when not to worry. These days I am amused when I see an EV driver anxious that there's only 20% left in the battery when they arrive at the charger, but in my few months, boy, was I scared.
 

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For a £24k car in 2020 I don’t expect dials, it’s like it’s 20 years old. The battery display is even a dial! It’s the reason I didn’t even bother test driving the MG after seeing that in the promo pics
You also wouldn't have liked the Egolf from a couple of years ago, or the Leaf now, the base spec e208 (which costs more than the MG).
 

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Ref the dash, last time I drove a petrol car, it didn't say how many litres of fuel it had inside, nor any percentage of what's in the tank, just a pretty rubbish estimation of the remaining range; true that an EV is limited in range, so knowing exactly how much is left is an asset, but I gather one gets the hang of it after a few drives on when to worry and when not to worry. These days I am amused when I see an EV driver anxious that there's only 20% left in the battery when they arrive at the charger, but in my few months, boy, was I scared.

So the Zoe has a rather rubbish battery or blue bar that depletes at the side... it also has a guestimate range in Miles. The MG has a equally rubbish gauge at the bottom of the power guage.... and at the press of a switch the guestimate range remaining in miles. No difference there then!

As for arriving at 20% at a charger, you didn't do it right! ;) That's way too much charge!
 

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Ref the dash, last time I drove a petrol car, it didn't say how many litres of fuel it had inside, nor any percentage of what's in the tank, just a pretty rubbish estimation of the remaining range; true that an EV is limited in range, so knowing exactly how much is left is an asset, but I gather one gets the hang of it after a few drives on when to worry and when not to worry. These days I am amused when I see an EV driver anxious that there's only 20% left in the battery when they arrive at the charger, but in my few months, boy, was I scared.

So the Zoe has a rather rubbish battery or blue bar that depletes at the side... it also has a guestimate range in Miles. The MG has a equally rubbish gauge at the bottom of the power guage.... and at the press of a switch the guestimate range remaining in miles. No difference there then!

As for arriving at 20% at a charger, you didn't do it right! ;) That's way too much charge!
 

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Discussion Starter #113
So the Zoe has a rather rubbish battery or blue bar that depletes at the side... it also has a guestimate range in Miles. The MG has a equally rubbish gauge at the bottom of the power guage.... and at the press of a switch the guestimate range remaining in miles. No difference there then!

As for arriving at 20% at a charger, you didn't do it right! ;) That's way too much charge!
ZE50 shows all three: a blue bar, the percentage and the estimated km of range. I rarely notice the blue bar, the estimation is based on the driving style during the last 400km I think (which is pointless in many cases) and the most useful is indeed the percentage, as I can then quickly estimate based on road condition how much I can still travel.



As for arriving at 20% at a charger, you didn't do it right! ;) That's way too much charge!
Come on, it was 4 years ago, first EV experience, crappy infrastructure, 5kWh in that battery was pretty scary; mind you, I haven't driven any car for almost 10 years prior to that so my idea of distance was skewed. 4 years later (last year), before returning the old Zoe, I was comfortable with 6% driving around town; fellow passengers were showing severe range anxiety.
 

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I used both ChargeBump and needtocharge for a while, but no one else felt like it around here; usually it means that the other person must also download the app and register
That is actually one of the joys of needtocharge. The other person doesn't need to download the app, or even be registered.

If you are registered then I can send you a request, even as a guest. And I can do it via the website if I don't want to install an app.
 

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evezy referral code d6540
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There are no issues driving the car, except an annoying tail gate rattle which does seem to be improving/bedding in - only completed 800 miles todate, with the air conditioning/heating/cooling otherwise working fine
A build quality issue potentially affecting all RHD ZOEs manufactured before May 2020 has been reported.
When you receive your new evezy ZE50, please check if your vehicle is affected, so that remedial action can be taken.
It involves a “creaking” noise emanating from the tailgate area. It seems that this noise is caused by rough welding spots grating on the plastic boot trim.
The solution involves removing the excess welding material, repainting the affected area and replacing the original plastic trim back in place.
Dealers are aware of this issue and have been provided with the following information:
  • a text guide to the issue
  • photos of the affected tailgate area
  • a 20 second sound file to illustrate the “creaking” sound
  • remedial instructions to rectify the fault
 

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Thanks for this. Does this recall / rectification have a reference number we could use with a dealer?
 

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Thanks for this. Does this recall / rectification have a reference number we could use with a dealer?
Not that I know of. Dealer should be aware. What happened to the post I was replying to? :unsure:
 

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Thanks for this. Does this recall / rectification have a reference number we could use with a dealer?
It seems to be with the facelift ZOEs built up to April this year. They had a similar issue with the original ZOE which they fixed. Not sure why it reappeared...
 
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