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Discussion Starter #1
Dear All,
I bought a used Renault Zoe 2013.
For all of you that do not know this, the base warranty was for 4 years and the powertrain warranty was on offer for five years. Sadly for those who have not brought a manufacturers warranty complaint before September 2018 has no course of action.
My car was showing BCI faults since day one of my purchase.
My car failed to take a charge completely on some occasions yet worked fine on other occasions.
My car then proceeded to trip out and blow numerous charge points in North Wales (sorry) (public and private)
In October 2018 my car had a new motor and charger replaced under the powertrain warranty.
In July 2019 the car failed to take any kind of charge at all.
Today Renault took possession of the car again because I argued another powertrain fault.
I wish to pursue a claim against Renault that this is actually a manufacturing defect.
I need to prove this has happened to others.
Oh and by the way, if you was declined any help by Renault because they said your warranty had expired after four years. you have a right to dispute this with Renault. I can help you prove this because my argument was officially upheld by the Motor Ombudsman in July 2019.
Have you had this issue?
Will you help me fight this case?
All I need is proof that i am not the only person this has happened to.
I have successfully won part of my case, now let me help you.
No catch, I am just an avid supported of electric vehicles that has been massively let down by the poor 2013 model.
 

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Is your Zoe a R240 or Q210?

I think that you could use failure statistics from a far wider age range to support your case. I don't think the failure rate is very high (I could be wrong) but posts on this site indicate that there may well be a systematic failure (manufacturing defect) of parts of the electronics that support charging.

I have a June 2017 Q90 ZE40. The pulse box was replaced under warranty in August 2018, following a few failures to charge. The PEB was replaced under a recall (noted while the pulse box was being replaced) in September 2018.
 

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Speak, Eevee!
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To be as fair, honest and neutral as possible: despite having had a similar fault myself (going around with BCIs tripping chargers) I'm not sure it's all that common and my thread on it wasn't full of "me too"s, it was almost unheard of, I think you're about the 3rd similar case I can think of. I am lucky enough that my local dealer is precisely the one mentioned above who are a true credit to Renault and (with the necessary waiting times) their tech just basically knew his stuff and waved through the correct part and it's been fine ever since. I think he said it was the only one he'd seen with that problem, and they deal with a LOT of Zoes, but it wasn't a problem to fix as it had an ACTIS solution and a competent technician. If I recall and understand correctly, it's some part of the PEB/PEC that normally "communicates" with the EVSE to figure out what power it can draw. If it can't figure it out, it does the Digital Shrug and seemingly at a rate that trips out some chargers (you hear the contacter clattering like crazy which I think throws them off).

Far as I understand it, they should be covering it under the 5 year powertrain warranty since charging is required to power the vehicle and I suspect (but can't speak for them and can't guarantee) the right dealer (e.g. above) would've sorted it. I was still within my 4 years so can't really comment for sure. Unfortunately something it seems Renault could improve on is dealer consistency, and knowing when to overrule the less experienced ones rather than back them up when they refuse a claim.

Also working against any correlation is the fact mine is an R240, yours would be a Q210, so very different bits under the hood.

If there's any systematic failure in Zoes I'd say most/all have been covered in software updates but for some reason the updates aren't necessarily automatically applied (BMS is an example of one that has to be triggered by a customer complaint). The most common otherwise is low cost physical stuff like droplinks and most cars have some known weak point like that that people just get on with.

It has to be massively frustrating though, I don't react well to those situations myself, best of luck with getting the justice you're looking for.
 

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The BCI errors aren't the issue. It's the Stop Electric Failure Danger ones that are. Some owners were finding they'd get a few BCIs then the car would fail completely. Other owners never get the BCI or do get them and the car is absolutely fine.

The search function has been knackered so it's much harder to find all the old threads with them.

@neilw had his Zoe repaired
@stageshoot had his month old Zoe 40 repaired

It's not just the earlier cars that have had this issue.

There were others that did that weren't regulars.

Two I can find easily. There are more.


I think @King Ming was another.

There were a few owners that had more than one Zoe and had both cars fail at different times.

I think some of the threads could have been deleted as they documented Renault being very poor at handling the repairs.
 

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Speak, Eevee!
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To me it sounds more similar to my issue except whoever tried to repair it has replaced a bunch of stuff (e.g. the motor) that they don't need to and didn't fix the actual fault. Which is why I haven't drawn comparisons between BCI problems and "Stop Danger" ones. Sometimes one can lead to another but we can't be sure they always do...

On observation the stop danger errors often seem to have been bad cells, which should be covered indefinitely by the battery lease (or is it something like 7 years for battery owned) rather than any argument about 4 or 5 year warranties.
 

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Hi guys,

Part of the difficulty is the Stop Danger warning covers so many issues. The pulse box seems to fail but the car will actually drive fine, its just not doing its job (which is to check the health of the 12v battery) and this box is nothing to do with main components battery/motor/controller/charger however it causes the error to show. Compound this with the fact that some dealers are not great at fixing the car.

Lots of threads have non specific information, e.g. "yes i got Stop Danger" but as above since that covers so much its impossible to tell what has actually happened on the car.

All I can say is I enjoy working on these cars, I like the challenge of a completely broken Zoe so if you end up with one sat on your drive (even with main battery removed if yours is battery leased) then let me know and it might get resurrected, or used to fix other dead Zoe's I find.

When they work they are great cars.

Thanks all.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Is your Zoe a R240 or Q210?

I think that you could use failure statistics from a far wider age range to support your case. I don't think the failure rate is very high (I could be wrong) but posts on this site indicate that there may well be a systematic failure (manufacturing defect) of parts of the electronics that support charging.

I have a June 2017 Q90 ZE40. The pulse box was replaced under warranty in August 2018, following a few failures to charge. The PEB was replaced under a recall (noted while the pulse box was being replaced) in September 2018.
Thank you for your reply. I think mine is a Q210 but not sure, do you know how I can find out? It does not state in my Renault handbook.
Can you also tell me what a pulse box is please?
Can you also tell me what the PEB is.
To date I have heard of something named a PCB and BCB...
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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Open bonnet. Big metal box on top? Q model. Black plastic pipe? R model

Pulse box is a device that checks the state of the 12 volt battery. It's a metal ribbed fairly small box located just under/behind the left front headlight.

The PEB is the inverter. On a Q model it is a big metal box on top of the motor but under the metal box you can see on top, which is the charger (the BCB). The R model doesn't have a separate PEB. It's functions are integrated in the big vertical box that basically contains "everything power" and is called the PEC.

A PCB is a printed circuit board ;)

Edit: fix annoying typo calling both models "Q" in the PEB section
 

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Speak, Eevee!
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Today I remembered that I keep referring to mine as a PEC. hahaha
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Dear All,
I bought a used Renault Zoe 2013.
For all of you that do not know this, the base warranty was for 4 years and the powertrain warranty was on offer for five years. Sadly for those who have not brought a manufacturers warranty complaint before September 2018 has no course of action.
My car was showing BCI faults since day one of my purchase.
My car failed to take a charge completely on some occasions yet worked fine on other occasions.
My car then proceeded to trip out and blow numerous charge points in North Wales (sorry) (public and private)
In October 2018 my car had a new motor and charger replaced under the powertrain warranty.
In July 2019 the car failed to take any kind of charge at all.
Today Renault took possession of the car again because I argued another powertrain fault.
I wish to pursue a claim against Renault that this is actually a manufacturing defect.
I need to prove this has happened to others.
Oh and by the way, if you was declined any help by Renault because they said your warranty had expired after four years. you have a right to dispute this with Renault. I can help you prove this because my argument was officially upheld by the Motor Ombudsman in July 2019.
Have you had this issue?
Will you help me fight this case?
All I need is proof that i am not the only person this has happened to.
I have successfully won part of my case, now let me help you.
No catch, I am just an avid supported of electric vehicles that has been massively let down by the poor 2013 model.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
By way of an update...
My car broke 2018, BCI message after message and then broke chargepoints. Renault repaired and replaced Motor/Charger and gave it me back. This month it broke another chargepoint and will not take a charge. Liverpool Dealership took in it and diagnosed NO faults whatsoever. On their Renault chargepoint, my car took a charge and the car is now ready for collection. I rang the chargepost people and they say it is my car at fault, not their post. Renault say the opposite and the argument continues between them...

Apparantly, 2013 models have a known problem to Renault and this was addressed years ago by installing a software update.
Apparently with BCI faults, the car would develop an earthing problem and the car would build up an earth resistance and stop charging. This would lead to the car breaking the chargepoints, as mine has.
The chargepoint Engineers say it is the Battery Management System that needs checking by way of an OBD diagnosis (under the dash) and the new software update.
Apparently Renault has known about this for years but unfortunately for me, have not seen a case like mine for years. Sods law.

I was right though.
There seems to be an issue with my car.
I just need to prove it now and I am now very lucky enough to be able to raise my complaint with the Director of Renault UK who is head of the Charging bit. I did a bit of complaining today and the result was a conversation with the Director himself who has promised to hear my complaint and resolve my issue. Lets see how this goes.

Please feel free to pass on any comments that you want the Director of Renault UK to hear.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
the reason my zoe was tripping RCDs on 22kw and 44kw was due to a faulty filter but last year the bcb or charger assy and motor replaced!! the whole unit looked brand new!! the same fault continued and i now argue the same part has been replaced (this dealership was qualified to replace the modular part as opposed to the whole BCB. any thoughts? any one know about part numbers 296G96652R or 296055209R??
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Open bonnet. Big metal box on top? Q model. Black plastic pipe? R model

Pulse box is a device that checks the state of the 12 volt battery. It's a metal ribbed fairly small box located just under/behind the left front headlight.

The PEB is the inverter. On a Q model it is a big metal box on top of the motor but under the metal box you can see on top, which is the charger (the BCB). The R model doesn't have a separate PEB. It's functions are integrated in the big vertical box that basically contains "everything power" and is called the PEC.

A PCB is a printed circuit board ;)

Edit: fix annoying typo calling both models "Q" in the PEB section
where is the filter?
 

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Zoe Devotee
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where is the filter?
If its a 2013 it can only be a Q210, the R240 motor wasn't released until 2016.

Look I see you've got a lemon, but could you please stop spamming every post you can find? Lets concentrate the issue and discussion into 1 thread.

FYI I agree you should reject the car and get your cash back. On a similar, but more positive note, I've got a 2014 Zoe for sale which has been mechanically (including charging) faultless since I bought it in 2015 (ex dealer demo). 54k miles under its belt, extended Renault warranty on car and its up for sale NOW. ;) Zoe is a great car, i'm only upgrading because my family is getting older/bigger so need a bigger car.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you for all of your help people. I am new to this and I do not mean to spam so please forgive me.

Can I ask for help?

My BCB was replaced last year (the Charger Assembly and the Motor) within those parts is my filter but the dealership could not pin point the filter and replaced the whole box - am I right?

This week, the Filter has been replaced again after it breaking only 8 months later.
I am trying to argue that this part, when it breaks, which it does repeatedly, it leaks current down the earth and causes a 'safety risk' - the RCD's tripping on charge points only proves that the unit is doing its job - otherwise I would be at risk of shock right?

I do not feel this part should failed so soon and i am arguing that the car is not capable of continuous fast and rapid charging - which is why this part has failed so soon after repair. Is there a minimum amount of time an electrical part on a motor vehicle should last from being new??

Renault say that they will not allow me to reject a vehicle on the basis that this part has failed again. Any thoughts?

They keep saying that the base warranty is only for 4 years and this part is not under the warranty - we all know this is incorrect.

How long should a part like this last?
any electrical laws to cover the product?

any help would be appreciated
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I know today that the filter is part of the charger assembly which was replaced last year on my car. The filter was replaced this week. This particular part has not been modified since the car was manufactured back in 2013. The charger assembly has been superseded by another part but the filter is definitely the original design.

Yesterday I rejected the car on the basis that the same part had failed. This was rejected by Renault because; I bought my used car from a dealer and a car cannot be rejected on the basis that a part has failed. Renault say it is normal for parts to fail.

Today I rejected the car on the basis that the filter Renault replaced in Oct 2018, which failed again 4-6 months later Feb-Apr 2019, is the actual manufacturing/design defect. I argue it is not of sound quality because it is a creating safety issue; tripping RCDs on charge points. I also argue the car is not of sound quality on the basis the part itself is not durable given it has failed so soon after replacement. As I have rejected the filter, i must reject the car. the filter can only be replaced with another filter of the same specification (because no modification is available) and so the car must be replaced to fix the issue.

I know that my contract of sale is with the other dealer but I am still under contract with Renault UK. The warranty is the contract. My car went into Renault in July 2018. Just before the 5 year powertrain warranty expired. It was repaired in October 2018. In July 2019 the car was recalled on the basis that the same part had failed again or the fault wasn't fixed properly in the first place. Renault accepted this. It is the same part that was replaced under my powertrain warranty that has failed again so soon. surely this cannot be right. this is not normal wear and tear. A part that costs over £1000 should not start to become defective after only 4 months. surely there is a design fault.

It is hard to isolate my incident too as I argue that it is continuous fast and rapid charging that is making this fault come to Renault's attention. If people are home charging on 7kw posts, it may prolong the problem and the filter may last longer, but then you have to get the fault within warranty. What my complaint has also highlighted is that, as Renault UK are denying warranty after 4 years, this must put consumers off pursuing a complaint if they feel they have to pay for this repair. It unclear how many people actually challenge Renault UK on this.

I read somewhere that another person was denied a repair for the filter for a third time under warranty? If I took back this vehicle after repair, the filter would have failed again after another 6 months and the responsibility would be on me to replace this.

How is it fair that under the circumstances, we are forced to pay for a battery lease in a life long contract for a vehicle that breaks every 6 months.If other people are not experiencing this problem every six months then the questions have to be asked whether or not they are charging on 7kw mostly and occasionally fast and rapid chargers - OR - is the problem not actually the filter? something else has been missed by the Dealership?

I also argue that the filter is not fit for the purpose of charging on 22kw or 44kw plus charge points.

The car is currently sat with Renault Dealership until Renault receive and most likely refuse my request to reject the vehicle again on Monday. I have today also emailed the Head of Electric Charging at Renault - Ben Fletcher.

Any thoughts?
 

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I know today that the filter is part of the charger assembly which was replaced last year on my car. The filter was replaced this week. This particular part has not been modified since the car was manufactured back in 2013. The charger assembly has been superseded by another part but the filter is definitely the original design.

Yesterday I rejected the car on the basis that the same part had failed. This was rejected by Renault because; I bought my used car from a dealer and a car cannot be rejected on the basis that a part has failed. Renault say it is normal for parts to fail.

Today I rejected the car on the basis that the filter Renault replaced in Oct 2018, which failed again 4-6 months later Feb-Apr 2019, is the actual manufacturing/design defect. I argue it is not of sound quality because it is a creating safety issue; tripping RCDs on charge points. I also argue the car is not of sound quality on the basis the part itself is not durable given it has failed so soon after replacement. As I have rejected the filter, i must reject the car. the filter can only be replaced with another filter of the same specification (because no modification is available) and so the car must be replaced to fix the issue.

I know that my contract of sale is with the other dealer but I am still under contract with Renault UK. The warranty is the contract. My car went into Renault in July 2018. Just before the 5 year powertrain warranty expired. It was repaired in October 2018. In July 2019 the car was recalled on the basis that the same part had failed again or the fault wasn't fixed properly in the first place. Renault accepted this. It is the same part that was replaced under my powertrain warranty that has failed again so soon. surely this cannot be right. this is not normal wear and tear. A part that costs over £1000 should not start to become defective after only 4 months. surely there is a design fault.

It is hard to isolate my incident too as I argue that it is continuous fast and rapid charging that is making this fault come to Renault's attention. If people are home charging on 7kw posts, it may prolong the problem and the filter may last longer, but then you have to get the fault within warranty. What my complaint has also highlighted is that, as Renault UK are denying warranty after 4 years, this must put consumers off pursuing a complaint if they feel they have to pay for this repair. It unclear how many people actually challenge Renault UK on this.

I read somewhere that another person was denied a repair for the filter for a third time under warranty? If I took back this vehicle after repair, the filter would have failed again after another 6 months and the responsibility would be on me to replace this.

How is it fair that under the circumstances, we are forced to pay for a battery lease in a life long contract for a vehicle that breaks every 6 months.If other people are not experiencing this problem every six months then the questions have to be asked whether or not they are charging on 7kw mostly and occasionally fast and rapid chargers - OR - is the problem not actually the filter? something else has been missed by the Dealership?

I also argue that the filter is not fit for the purpose of charging on 22kw or 44kw plus charge points.

The car is currently sat with Renault Dealership until Renault receive and most likely refuse my request to reject the vehicle again on Monday. I have today also emailed the Head of Electric Charging at Renault - Ben Fletcher.

Any thoughts?
See if you can get them to disclose which component ( in the filter module) has failed twice. The capacitor could fail due to overvoltage on the mains, peculiar to your particular charging location.
 
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