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90% of Leaf are 16A and I believe there have been discussions of Zoe tripping home chargers in the past due to initial charging current being beyond borderline?

As a pragmatic workaround, maybe it is worth modifying a cable to limit the current to 20A by changing resistor to 680 ohm. Or maybe even a switch to select 20A or 32A.
 

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Why doesn't renault just alter the UK zoe software to limit the current draw to a lower level so the car doesn't trip posts?
 

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Why doesn't renault just alter the UK zoe software to limit the current draw to a lower level so the car doesn't trip posts?
Or provide an option in car to reduce, like in MB, Tesla and probably others?

Hence why I used the phrase "pragmatic workaround" :D
 

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Why doesn't renault just alter the UK zoe software to limit the current draw to a lower level so the car doesn't trip posts?
...because (in general) the car doesn't exceed current limits.

That's what's so mystifying about Zoe issues. Lots of people say that the Zoe has excessively large inrush currents, yet for everyone who has problems with a B Curve 32A MCB and replaces it with a C curve or a 40A unit, there are loads of others (me included) who have absolutely no overcurrent issues at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
@mgboyes Is that something I can get fitted to the car? The issue for me is its a significant public charging posts that I'm having problems with (I can still charge on some posts). I can charge at home without problem (for now), but I'm obviously limited if I drive up to a *working* public charge point and its a roll of the dice if the car will work with it, when other non-Renault cars at least have no trouble.
 

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@mgboyes Is that something I can get fitted to the car? The issue for me is its a significant public charging posts that I'm having problems with (I can still charge on some posts). I can charge at home without problem (for now), but I'm obviously limited if I drive up to a *working* public charge point and its a roll of the dice if the car will work with it, when other non-Renault cars at least have no trouble.
No I'm talking about the spec of the circuit breaker that's installed with the charge point. Lots of home installers now use over-sized or slow-tripping breakers because of rumours that Zoes take excessive currents, but there's no actual hard evidence (that I've seen) that they do.
 

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rumours that Zoes take excessive currents, but there's no actual hard evidence (that I've seen) that they do.
Surely a post saying 105% is evidence?
 

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Surely a post saying 105% is evidence?
Yes it certainly is evidence, that this particular Zoe might be drawing too much power at this particular charging point. It's an intriguing start. But without knowing how the current is being measured, and without more than one car showing the same behaviour, and ideally at multiple points, it's still a good way from being convincing evidence that Zoes in general draw too much power.

Actually that's an interesting point. Is this a 43kW or 22kW Zoe? If the former then if for some reason this chargepoint is incorrectly putting out a pilot signal above 32A then the Zoe is the only car that would hit issues since nothing else is capable of exceeding 32A anyway.
 

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Yes it certainly is evidence, that this particular Zoe might be drawing too much power at this particular charging point. It's an intriguing start. But without knowing how the current is being measured, and without more than one car showing the same behaviour, and ideally at multiple points, it's still a good way from being convincing evidence that Zoes in general draw too much power.

Actually that's an interesting point. Is this a 43kW or 22kW Zoe? If the former then if for some reason this chargepoint is incorrectly putting out a pilot signal above 32A then the Zoe is the only car that would hit issues since nothing else is capable of exceeding 32A anyway.
I agree might just be a few Zoe where chargers are slightly outside tolerances.

The resistors in the plugs should tell both the car and charger 32A max, so shouldn't offer or take more than that. Personally I would just change one to 20A as a workaround and if does then work, try and get Renault or post operator to fix.
 

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Surely a post saying 105% is evidence?
Going slightly off-topic here, that 105% isn't really evidence for the B- vs -C breaker debate: that's a matter of 400% vs 900% overload for a few milliseconds; here we have a post apparently reporting a sustained 5% overload (though I suppose it could mean "exceeded by an arbitrary amount the limit which is set at 105%"). I say sustained both because the OP was able to charge a few seconds before it tripped, and also because an instantaneous limit of 105% would be unlikely to work reliably on any car.

Returning to topic, if we believe the message on the chargepoint that the car is drawing excessive current, there's various possibilities:
  • Chargepoint is measuring the current inaccurately (unlikely in itself as at least some other cars will draw the max available, but could be a small inaccuracy compounded with other issues).
  • Chargepoint's pilot output is slightly incorrect, offering greater than 32A. Most other cars wouldn't notice this as they never draw more than 32A, though a Tesla (for example) shows the advertised current on the display - you'd see "32/34A" if the post was accidentally offering 5% extra.
  • Zoe is mis-reading the chargepoint's pilot and drawing more than 32A as it thinks is permitted (only if it's a 43kW Zoe). The cable could be a factor in this, particularly if it's a long one: capacitance lowering the slew-rate of the pilot signal and making it harder to read accurately.
  • Zoe reads it as 32A but then draws slightly more than 32A, due to some tolerance error.
It could of course be several of these factors in combination adding up to more than the 5% the post will apparently tolerate.

To get to the bottom of it really needs someone with some accurate test equipment to monitor the pilot signal and the current actually drawn by the Zoe.

However, @proddick 's suggestion of borrowing a 16A charge cable would be a useful first step. Likewise finding a local Tesla driver to try charging from that post (ideally with your cable) to see what output it is advertising.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I just wanted to provide an update on whats happened with my vehicle: Despite assurances back in August that all the software on the car was updated (as I was suspicious from things I'd read that software could be an issue here), I had the car in a couple of weeks back for some issues and as part of that was able to get lots of battery/charger software updated. At this point, it was actually pointed out that much of the software was last updated much earlier in the year when I had the PEC unit replaced.

Most of the issues went away. All but one of the chargers where I've always had issues, work, and the ones that worked but told me the car was drawing too much power, now don't tell me that. I've regularly tried theses posts between August and having the software updated a couple of weeks ago.

The one charge point I still have an issue with, I can get two other Zoes to charge at (a car club car, and the dealers demo vehicle), but mine cuts out after ~40-60 seconds (it used to be 5 seconds before the software update). I took both my car and the car-club car there at the same time with the same cable, and was able to video the two cars, behaving differently at the same socket one after the other, and I've got a video of the dealer car charging there for a good few minutes.

Its now in the dealers for a broken heater, which has been re-gassed, but still isn't working. Renault closed the charging complaint case months ago, so I'm not expecting anything will be done about the issue which I can now prove to them, but I'll see what they say non the less.
 

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I’ve had my ZOE since October last year, it was a year old ex-demo (65 reg), its a great car to drive, and aside from the repairs and current charging issues, I’ve enjoyed having the vehicle. Earlier this year, I had to have the PEC unit replaced (thankfully under warranty – the cost of that unit (£5k for the part, total cost for the work ~£7k) makes me question owning one of these vehicles after the warranty runs out!).

For the past four weeks I’ve had the vehicle back at the dealers, as I’ve had a number of charging problems with CYC public charging posts. I went to three different charging points, on three different charging posts, at two different car parks, owned by two different councils, and was unable to charge at any of them; the first two posts were the same type of charge post – a socket on either side with a plastic flap covering them, the third was a single socket with a lockable metal door that unlocks when you swipe the CYC card. In all instances the vehicle drew a small amount of charge as part of the on-going checks / “Ready to charge” as it says on the post, but cut out after 5 – 10 seconds (Video showing what happens on YouTube). In the first two instances, the dashboard went blank, and the charge post reported that charging had stopped. The third post, which I have used successfully in the past, went red after a few seconds, with an error along the lines of “power limit exceeded”, and the vehicle had a red error on the dash stating (along the lines of) power had been cut (it wasn’t the Battery Charging Impossible error or anything like that). Between moving the car from the first to the second charge post, a (non-Zoe) EV plugged into the first one, and charged without issue (confirmed by speaking to the driver). I also called CYC to check there was no issue with my CYC account.

I had the vehicle recovered to the dealer, initially all they could find was the fault from the third charging attempt which according to them indicated the error was with the charge post; and the vehicle was charging at their charge point without issue. They took my vehicle and another ZOE to one of the other charge points, found my vehicle didn’t charge, but theirs did. According to my CYC logs, they also tried the vehicle on a fourth point on one of the same posts, and that didn’t work either. They tried a cable swap, and this made no difference. This allowed them to fault the vehicle, and replace (I believe) the charging port on the car. Just under three weeks later I took the car back.

The next day, I went back to those same three charge points, and exactly the same thing happened, so I took the vehicle back to the dealer. One minor difference, was I left the car plugged in for a longer period of time at one post, and every now and then it would keep retrying, and stopping again.

The dealer first tried the car on their charge post, and one other public charge post, and didn’t find any issue; after a few more days they were able to take my vehicle and their vehicle to two of the posts where I was having issues: neither vehicle would charge. I’ve spoken to CYC, and they confirmed the posts are working, communicating and even confirmed the last time they were used successfully for three of the four posts (the one which went red and reported an error, the last event they had was a start/stop event, so couldn’t confirm, but I’m waiting to hear more from them). They seemed quite alarmed that a Renault dealer was passing blame to their posts.

I am now in a situation where the dealer believes the fault is with the charge posts. As a consumer, I don’t accept this, because other vehicles are using those posts, and CYC are reporting they are working.

I’ve asked the dealer if there is a known issue with Renault ZOEs given neither my vehicle or theirs would work at these working charge posts, and they have said they will check with Renault UK. I’ve asked my Customer Service contact and Renault UK the same question, and they have advised they are not technical and that the dealer could answer that question.

I’ve asked how they were able to fault the vehicle a few weeks ago, yet are not able to fault it now (I am suspecting they might not have bothered taking their own vehicle to the charge post the first time, but have just claimed they did; given that this is the same post they now say their car won’t charge at either), but because they replaced a part and I took the vehicle back, this is now a ‘new case’, and previously they didn’t take much documentary evidence of their investigations.

I’ve asked why non-Zoe vehicles have charged, and they cannot answer that.

I’ve raised the issue with the finance company, who defer to their answers of a) we have 8 weeks to respond and b) we know the manufacturer are looking into this for you

I am now deeply worried that I’m going to be given a vehicle back which I cannot reliably use. Each charging post is going to be a roll of the dice as to if it will work, which means I either need to accept that the range is 50% of what it says, so I can always charge at home, or I need to continually look at using ZE assist to recover the vehicle. Despite really enjoying driving the car, I’m starting to think I should have looked at a different manufacturer if it won’t work at charge posts that are known to work.

Its only because I’ve had this issue three times in a row that I took the vehicle in, but looking back on my charging history, I’ve had this same situation happen before (but because it was a one off at a charge point I wouldn’t normally use, I wrote it off as the charger) and to see another car using the charge post shortly afterwards (I’ve obviously experienced issues where I know its the charge post – charge post displaying an error / red light / or the “Battery Charging Impossible” message).

Has anyone else experienced this issue of charging cutting out after a few seconds while its doing its on-going checks? The fact the third post (which was a different type of post) threw an error indicating that power limit had been exceeded, makes me think that the car is trying to draw too much power for some posts and the posts are cutting it off (and that the other posts just don’t display the error message). Also, does anyone have any tips for how to deal with being stuck in the middle of Dealer/Renault/RCI finance (and potentially CYC). Unfortunately I’ve had the vehicle for more than 6 months, so rejecting the vehicle seems to be out. I’m not sure how I can move this forward, and I’m not sure what to do with a vehicle where I don’t know if I can charge it at a public post.

Thanks,

Michael
Please can you help me. For 18 months now my Zoe has been tripping the RCD on public charge points.
I spent 5 hours today with BP Chargemaster at a 22kw post and these are his readings, any idea what they mean.
The Engineer told me the common earthing problem older models have IS NOT the reason why the car trips the charge post.
He did say that the earth was too high and that is what causes the RCD to trip.
Can you take a look for me?

-------------No Load (V)--------Load (V)
E-N--------0----------------------0
E L1-------247.4----------------243.5
E L2-------250.7----------------247.6
E L3-------248.4----------------246
N L1-------247.2----------------243.9
N L2-------250.5----------------247.4
N L3-------249.3----------------246.4
L1-L2------434.7----------------428.7
L1-L3------432.7----------------425.4
L2-L3------436.6----------------431

----------EFLI---------- A-------------PSCC---------- A
L1--------0.2----------1133------------ 0.2------------1159
L2--------0.23----------1004---------- 0.22----------1052
L3--------0.31----------748----------- 0.24----------954

Current
L1---------- 30.86
L2----------31.07
L3----------31.45
E (charging) 594 ma
E (*no load) 0.5 ma

ANY HELP IS MUCH APPRECIATED

I think I am having the same problems!!
 

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Going slightly off-topic here, that 105% isn't really evidence for the B- vs -C breaker debate: that's a matter of 400% vs 900% overload for a few milliseconds; here we have a post apparently reporting a sustained 5% overload (though I suppose it could mean "exceeded by an arbitrary amount the limit which is set at 105%"). I say sustained both because the OP was able to charge a few seconds before it tripped, and also because an instantaneous limit of 105% would be unlikely to work reliably on any car.

Returning to topic, if we believe the message on the chargepoint that the car is drawing excessive current, there's various possibilities:
  • Chargepoint is measuring the current inaccurately (unlikely in itself as at least some other cars will draw the max available, but could be a small inaccuracy compounded with other issues).
  • Chargepoint's pilot output is slightly incorrect, offering greater than 32A. Most other cars wouldn't notice this as they never draw more than 32A, though a Tesla (for example) shows the advertised current on the display - you'd see "32/34A" if the post was accidentally offering 5% extra.
  • Zoe is mis-reading the chargepoint's pilot and drawing more than 32A as it thinks is permitted (only if it's a 43kW Zoe). The cable could be a factor in this, particularly if it's a long one: capacitance lowering the slew-rate of the pilot signal and making it harder to read accurately.
  • Zoe reads it as 32A but then draws slightly more than 32A, due to some tolerance error.
It could of course be several of these factors in combination adding up to more than the 5% the post will apparently tolerate.

To get to the bottom of it really needs someone with some accurate test equipment to monitor the pilot signal and the current actually drawn by the Zoe.

However, @proddick 's suggestion of borrowing a 16A charge cable would be a useful first step. Likewise finding a local Tesla driver to try charging from that post (ideally with your cable) to see what output it is advertising.

Please can you help me. For 18 months now my Zoe has been tripping the RCD on public charge points.
I spent 5 hours today with BP Chargemaster at a 22kw post and these are his readings, any idea what they mean.
The Engineer told me the common earthing problem older models have IS NOT the reason why the car trips the charge post.
He did say that the earth was too high and that is what causes the RCD to trip.
Can you take a look for me?

-------------No Load (V)--------Load (V)
E-N--------0----------------------0
E L1-------247.4----------------243.5
E L2-------250.7----------------247.6
E L3-------248.4----------------246
N L1-------247.2----------------243.9
N L2-------250.5----------------247.4
N L3-------249.3----------------246.4
L1-L2------434.7----------------428.7
L1-L3------432.7----------------425.4
L2-L3------436.6----------------431

----------EFLI---------- A-------------PSCC---------- A
L1--------0.2----------1133------------ 0.2------------1159
L2--------0.23----------1004---------- 0.22----------1052
L3--------0.31----------748----------- 0.24----------954

Current
L1---------- 30.86
L2----------31.07
L3----------31.45
E (charging) 594 ma
E (*no load) 0.5 ma

ANY HELP IS MUCH APPRECIATED
 

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Please can you help me. For 18 months now my Zoe has been tripping the RCD on public charge points.
I spent 5 hours today with BP Chargemaster at a 22kw post and these are his readings, any idea what they mean.
The Engineer told me the common earthing problem older models have IS NOT the reason why the car trips the charge post.
He did say that the earth was too high and that is what causes the RCD to trip.
Can you take a look for me?

-------------No Load (V)--------Load (V)
E-N--------0----------------------0
E L1-------247.4----------------243.5
E L2-------250.7----------------247.6
E L3-------248.4----------------246
N L1-------247.2----------------243.9
N L2-------250.5----------------247.4
N L3-------249.3----------------246.4
L1-L2------434.7----------------428.7
L1-L3------432.7----------------425.4
L2-L3------436.6----------------431

----------EFLI---------- A-------------PSCC---------- A
L1--------0.2----------1133------------ 0.2------------1159
L2--------0.23----------1004---------- 0.22----------1052
L3--------0.31----------748----------- 0.24----------954

Current
L1---------- 30.86
L2----------31.07
L3----------31.45
E (charging) 594 ma
E (*no load) 0.5 ma

ANY HELP IS MUCH APPRECIATED
Hi does your vehicle drive OK, and is there any noise from the motor when slowing down? When you accelerate you always get a bit of a whine with a Zoe but there should be no whine when slowing down, is that the case?

Whereabouts in the country are you? It might be worth finding a good HEVRA garage and seeing what they think. https://www.hevra.org.uk/

Cheers.
 

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Hi does your vehicle drive OK, and is there any noise from the motor when slowing down? When you accelerate you always get a bit of a whine with a Zoe but there should be no whine when slowing down, is that the case?

Whereabouts in the country are you? It might be worth finding a good HEVRA garage and seeing what they think. https://www.hevra.org.uk/

Cheers.
I have a noise from the motor yes, but drives okay, the noise is constant.
I am in Wales and I have spoke to HEVRA on twitter about this. I need Renault to identify the fault though so I can actually get it repaired under warranty
 

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I have a noise from the motor yes, but drives okay, the noise is constant.
I am in Wales and I have spoke to HEVRA on twitter about this. I need Renault to identify the fault though so I can actually get it repaired under warranty
the supply frequency measured was 50HZ, the voltage was within parameters.
the engineer said there shouldn't be any voltage on the earth, he also said there was some reading on the earth ... could that have come from the post?? is that normal?
 

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I have a noise from the motor yes, but drives okay, the noise is constant.....I need Renault to identify the fault though so I can actually get it repaired under warranty
Hi the noise should reduce when you take your foot off the accelerator. Is the noise the same when you are slowing as when speeding up?

I doubt you’re going to be able to get Renault to identify the issue. If it was me I would go to the nearest Hevra garage and get their opinion or even pay them to do some diagnosis so you can point Renault in the right direction and get it fixed.

Afterwards you can then try and claim the costs you paid to the Hevra garage back from Ren.

Otherwise I can see you getting nowhere unfortunately.

Thanks.
 
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