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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I note that there are 46kW AC chargers, with Type 2 connectors, appearing.
Can my Zoe GT Line R135 50kWh, use these and get the full 46kW, or will the charge be limited to 22kW?

TIA

Fof
 

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I note that there are 46kW AC chargers, with Type 2 connectors, appearing.
Can my Zoe GT Line R135 50kWh, use these and get the full 46kW, or will the charge be limited to 22kW?

TIA

Fof

Unfortunately it's limited to about 22 kW maximum by the charger. The earlier cars had chargers that were OK up to about 43 kW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, guys
I guess the car's onboard charge controller must therefore limit the i/p power?
There is no way the 46kW AC charger can know the car's limitations.

Fof
 

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Thanks, guys
I guess the car's onboard charge controller must therefore limit the i/p power?
There is no way the 46kW AC charger can know the car's limitations.

Fof

The charger is always in the car for AC charging, the thing you connect to is just a switched AC power outlet. It's the charger (in the car) that sets the charge rate, with the proviso that it cannot draw more current that the AC charge point advertises is available, via the Control Pilot connection.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Again, thanks, but I'm still not sure.:unsure:
When charging a Li battery, the controller initially charges the battery using CI (Constant Current) mode.
Once it gets to approx 80%, it switches to CV (Constant Voltage), which is why the final 20% charge can take much longer to complete.
Does the inbuilt charge controller, limit the CI mode to 22kW? Why would it, as the 3 phase public chargers have had an o/p of 22kW maximum, until very recently.

Sorry, Jeremy, but I didn't see your reply till I had posted.
 

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Again, thanks, but I'm still not sure.:unsure:
When charging a Li battery, the controller initially charges the battery using CI (Constant Current) mode.
Once it gets to approx 80%, it switches to CV (Constant Voltage), which is why the final 20% charge can take much longer to complete.
Does the inbuilt charge controller, limit the CI mode to 22kW? Why would it, as the 3 phase public chargers have had an o/p of 22kW maximum, until very recently.

The key thing is to remember that for AC charging the charger, all of it, is built in to the car. The charge point (the fixed thing you plug into) is just a fancy switched AC power outlet, it has no charging functionality, just contacts that can close to supply AC power to the car plus some communications stuff to make this safe.
 

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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
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It's a really small subset of Zoes with a specific Continental motor that can charge at 43kW. It tends to be older rapid chargers that offer this and it will likely disappear as these older rapids are replaced. In the UK 22kW AC is rare enough at the commercial sites.
 

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Renault Zoe Intens Q210 22kw 2013
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There is a resistor between (either the CP pin or PP pin - the 2 little pins at the top cannot remember which one now) to the PE pin (protective Earth) of the female type2 plug that plugs into the front of the Zoe to tell the charger what to charge at (or what cable rating of the lead is) when its handshaking (the few seconds it takes before it starts charging)

Early Q Zoe's charged up to 43kwAC - then the R Zoe's charge up to 22kwAc max through the type 2 socket .

CCS equipped Zoe charges through the 2 big DC pins under the Type2 socket , when hooked up to a DC charging post and up to (i think it is) 46kw DC

Along the charging the load charges according to battery temp and state of charge of the battery and other factors - the BMS of the Zoe will adjust all that automatically so it wont damage the battery.

On (well AC anyway , and I presume maybe DC charging?) when the batterys are charging and get to the full capacity (IE near to 100%) the current will go right down and a trickle just to finish off charging and balance all the cells evenly (on Ac type 2 charging for sure I think this could take place between 99% and 100%)

This is my understanding of how it all works.
 

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Again, thanks, but I'm still not sure.:unsure:
When charging a Li battery, the controller initially charges the battery using CI (Constant Current) mode.
Once it gets to approx 80%, it switches to CV (Constant Voltage), which is why the final 20% charge can take much longer to complete.
At 22kW it charges almost completely before needing to revert to voltage, and I think it is not constant either but cycles up to the specified (whatever it is) voltage limit rather than hold it there, not sure on the ZE50 in particular.

Obviously, at a constant current, the power is not fixed at 22kW but increases as the voltage of the charge (battery/charger) increases.

Does the inbuilt charge controller, limit the CI mode to 22kW? Why would it, as the 3 phase public chargers have had an o/p of 22kW maximum, until very recently.
It is the charger's maximum power. Converting AC into DC is done via a SMPS-boost type of converter, and 22kW represents the maximum throughput current in its circuit at maximum battery voltage (or thereabouts). In exactly the same way that a single phase charger may be limited to 6.6kW (or 3.3kW). Regulation of the current is done by adjusting the pulse length that the switching circuit pumps into the DC link capacitor.

The issue with high power boost converters is you need very large capacitors and inductors. The 43kW AC Zoes did this by using the motor coils as the inductors, which was possible with the Continental design motors which were externally excited (that means, the magnetic field of the rotor is generated by an externally supplied current .. you can't do that with PM motors, it would end up generating motor torque!).
 

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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
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My understanding is all Zoe motors are externally excited and none are permanent magnet. Again all Zoes use the motor coil as inductor for the charging circuit, hence the ability to charge at 22KW AC when most cars max out at 11kW. But it was only the specific model that upped this to 46kW.

having an externally excited rotor means no need for rare earth magnets in the motor, which makes quite a difference for the supply chain.
 
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