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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi

I know a good bit about the gen 1.5 leaf. Like it has a 24kw battery and 21.4 of this is useable from new. And it has a better heating system that uses a heat pump and battery degradation is not as bad as gen 1 leaf.

Im undecided on buying a 2013 leaf 24kw version 1.5 or a 2015 Zoe 22kw.

I know very little about the Zoe. I am hoping some of you can help me with my questions. These relate to the 2015 model Zoe.

1. Of the 22kw battery, how much of this is actually useable from new?
2. Does it have an efficient heating or heat pump system?
3. Leaf has a 12 ‘bar’ system for measuring battery? What does Zoe have?
4. Does battery degrade roughly the same as a leaf?
5. What range could one except today from a 4 year old 2015 leaf 22kw (I k ow depends on a lot of factors but ballpark)
 

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1. Of the 22kw battery, how much of this is actually useable from new?
Its actually a 25.92kWh battery, with 23.3kWh available capacity
2. Does it have an efficient heating or heat pump system?
Yes - heat pump only. There is a small bar heater to help the heat pump work in very low temperatures on some models.
3. Leaf has a 12 ‘bar’ system for measuring battery? What does Zoe have?
8 bars on Zoe dash with range estimate. Gives percentages during charging and at start up.
4. Does battery degrade roughly the same as a leaf?
The Zoe battery is cooled by the air-con system, and more carefully managed than the leaf. There has been little degradation noted. However there is an internal health percentage. If you have a battery lease, you'll get a new battery when the health goes below 75% (although that doesn't mean the range is 75%). There is a bug with the health monitor which makes this report lower than expected, fixed by a firmware update by a dealer.
5. What range could one except today from a 4 year old 2015 leaf 22kw (I k ow depends on a lot of factors but ballpark)
I assume you mean Zoe on this forum. new they are 65 to 90 miles depending on time of year and how you are driving. You'd be a bit less than that, depending on battery health, which is variable.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Than you. Yes, I meant a 22kw Zoe.
Wow, that’s great about the battery and the available capacity.

What are they like on a motorway at 120kph? Solid or a bit shaky?
 

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Wow, that’s great about the battery and the available capacity.

What are they like on a motorway at 120kph? Solid or a bit shaky?
You need to measure SOH with a dongle and CanZE. There’s no way to get it from the dash.

They're fine on the motorway at speed, although range will suffer if driven at this speed continuously.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The 2015 version Zoe with 22kw battery: Is it offered with 2 different types of onboard charger, a 22 kWh version and a 43 kWh version?
 

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You need to measure SOH with a dongle and CanZE. There’s no way to get it from the dash.
You can do a 2 pedal reset and see what range it claims with a 100% charged battery. With a 22kWh I think the standard average everyone saw was 126 miles. If some had a very good battery they got a little more. But I think 126 was basically considered 100% health.

However many miles less than 126 it claims you can work out how much you've lost as a percentage of 126 and that will give you a rough idea of degradation.

Definitely not as accurate I agree, and a little more inconvenient since you have to wait until it stops charging at 10% to check this. But its a good method if you don't have an OBD dongle and in my experience tells you what you need to know.
 

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The 2015 version Zoe with 22kw battery: Is it offered with 2 different types of onboard charger, a 22 kWh version and a 43 kWh version?
Yes. The motor will be named with the letter R or Q in front of the number. R is 22kW max, Q is 43kW max.

Q charges a bit faster, but is a bit less efficient and has a little less range.

R can charge at 22kW pretty much all the way up to 99% it's still pretty fast. So when you compare it to the Q which only hits 43 for a short amount of time, you're not actually saving that much time waiting at a rapid charger.

With a 22kWh model which probably won't be doing that many long distance trips, both models are good to consider.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Yes. The motor will be named with the letter R or Q in front of the number. R is 22kW max, Q is 43kW max.

Q charges a bit faster, but is a bit less efficient and has a little less range.

R can charge at 22kW pretty much all the way up to 99% it's still pretty fast. So when you compare it to the Q which only hits 43 for a short amount of time, you're not actually saving that much time waiting at a rapid charger.

With a 22kWh model which probably won't be doing that many long distance trips, both models are good to consider.
Thank you. Are the 22 kWh onboard charger version much cheaper than the 43 kWh? (I.e. Are you paying much of a premium for the 43)

The ‘Q’ version I presume is a newer or upgraded version of car - yet offers LESS range and less efficient......strange. You would think a newer version would improve the range.
 

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Than you. Yes, I meant a 22kw Zoe.
Wow, that’s great about the battery and the available capacity.

What are they like on a motorway at 120kph? Solid or a bit shaky?
I drove one on the motorway at 70mph. Extremely solid. Didn't even realise I was on 70.


Thank you. Are the 22 kWh onboard charger version much cheaper than the 43 kWh? (I.e. Are you paying much of a premium for the 43)

The Q I presume is a newer or upgraded version of car - yet offers LESS range and less efficient......strange. You would think a newer version would improve the range.
They are not actually much cheaper in my experience. Btw if you open the bonnet and it's an orange box then it's Q.

It's not a newer version just a different type of motor. I believe the Q came first. Then Renault started making their own motors and the R versions. It's said that the R gives a bit more range but I've heard that in reality there isn't much difference and you should go for the Q if you need it.
 

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Thank you. Are the 22 kWh onboard charger version much cheaper than the 43 kWh? (I.e. Are you paying much of a premium for the 43)

The ‘Q’ version I presume is a newer or upgraded version of car - yet offers LESS range and less efficient......strange. You would think a newer version would improve the range.
The Q motor is made by an outside company rather than Renault themselves. It was originally an upgrade that cost extra when the car was new, but these days there is little price difference between them, just like there is little difference in charging time and range in the real world.

The R motor made by Renault themselves ended up being the only option in the end. The latest ZE40 release was only available with the R110 Motor in the end after the discontinuted the rapid charge one. 22kW charging is more than fast enough on a city car, and the efficency is more valuable than the slight boost in charging speeds in my opinion.

Worth noting here that since you are comparing a Zoe to a LEAF, you will likely get a noticeable boost to your energy efficiency compared to your original LEAF especially if you get a Zoe with R motor, and don't do too much driving above 60mph.The only EV I have ever seen to beat Zoe on efficiency in the real world is the Hyundai Ioniq.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The Q motor is made by an outside company rather than Renault themselves. It was originally an upgrade that cost extra when the car was new, but these days there is little price difference between them, just like there is little difference in charging time and range in the real world.

The R motor made by Renault themselves ended up being the only option in the end. The latest ZE40 release was only available with the R110 Motor in the end after the discontinuted the rapid charge one. 22kW charging is more than fast enough on a city car, and the efficency is more valuable than the slight boost in charging speeds in my opinion.

Worth noting here that since you are comparing a Zoe to a LEAF, you will likely get a noticeable boost to your energy efficiency compared to your original LEAF especially if you get a Zoe with R motor, and don't do too much driving above 60mph.The only EV I have ever seen to beat Zoe on efficiency in the real world is the Hyundai Ioniq.

22kw charging is like heaven compared to the leafs 3.6kw. Will meet my needs all day long.

I know in the leaf that ‘rapid, charging via the ‘chademo’ is not really great for the battery in the long term and is best avoided.

As the Zoe has 22kw charging, is this considered ‘rapid’ ? And therefore not great for the battery?
 

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As the Zoe has 22kw charging, is this considered ‘rapid’ ? And therefore not great for the battery?
Not really, it’s just fast charging.

The ZOE has active cooling so is less affected by heat issues like the Leaf.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Reason for these questions is as follows

I had a 2011 leaf with 85,000 km on it. The SOH was 76%. So in fairness not bad for its age. However, It fell outside my needs when it came to range by about 25-30km.

I have sold it. And looking to buy another EV. Now my issue is budget, I don’t have a lot.

I can get a gen 1.5 Leaf 2013 or 2014 with my budget. It will maybe have about 85% battery.

I am wondering if this newer car with the better heat pump will get me this extra 25km.

Or would a 2015 Zoe with the 22kw battery be a better option. I think before 2015 that the Zoe’s were battery lease only......and I don’t want this.

The thing is I won’t really know if the cars will meet my needs as cannot really get a trial to test my scenarios. Which is the reason for all the pedantic questions ;)
 

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Reason for these questions is as follows

I had a 2011 leaf with 85,000 km on it. The SOH was 76%. So in fairness not bad for its age. However, It fell outside my needs when it came to range by about 25-30km.

I have sold it. And looking to buy another EV. Now my issue is budget, I don’t have a lot.

I can get a gen 1.5 2013 or 2014 with my budget. It will maybe have about 85% battery.

I am wondering if this newer car with the better heat pump will get me this extra 25km.

Or would a 2015 leaf with the 22kw battery be a better option. I think before 2015 that the Zoe’s wee battery lease only......and I don’t want this.

The thing is I won’t really know if the cars will meet my needs as cannot really get a trial to test my scenarios. Which is the reason for all the pedantic questions ;)
Cheapest battery owned I've seen is £10k from DSG Morecambe and that's for the base spec

Leaf has 3.6kW but it also has 50kW Chademo right? Whereas Zoe will just have 22kW
 

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Reason for these questions is as follows

I had a 2011 leaf with 85,000 km on it. The SOH was 76%. So in fairness not bad for its age. However, It fell outside my needs when it came to range by about 25-30km.

I have sold it. And looking to buy another EV. Now my issue is budget, I don’t have a lot.

I can get a gen 1.5 2013 or 2014 with my budget. It will maybe have about 85% battery.

I am wondering if this newer car with the better heat pump will get me this extra 25km.

Or would a 2015 leaf with the 22kw battery be a better option. I think before 2015 that the Zoe’s wee battery lease only......and I don’t want this.

The thing is I won’t really know if the cars will meet my needs as cannot really get a trial to test my scenarios. Which is the reason for all the pedantic questions ;)
You should definitely manage to go further with a Zoe than you would in a LEAF of the same age. And the battery degradation is generally much less of an issue too.

If you want to get one with a battery inlucded, make sure it is an 'i' model. Though generally these seem to hold their value a lot more than the LEAF from what I have seen.

I don't suppose there are any car clubs or carshare companies in your area? That would be a way to get one of these cars for a few hours or a day and put it to the test for range. It is a lot of money to spend and then find out you can't do what you need to with it. I'm not sure I would want to take that risk.
 

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What daily range do you need?

The ZOE is more efficient in the first place and loses less battery capacity so would almost always have better range.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You should definitely manage to go further with a Zoe than you would in a LEAF of the same age. And the battery degradation is generally much less of an issue too.

If you want to get one with a battery inlucded, make sure it is an 'i' model. Though generally these seem to hold their value a lot more than the LEAF from what I have seen.

I don't suppose there are any car clubs or carshare companies in your area? That would be a way to get one of these cars for a few hours or a day and put it to the test for range. It is a lot of money to spend and then find out you can't do what you need to with it. I'm not sure I would want to take that risk.
Well the Zoe would be a year or 2 newer ;)
But you reckon both same age etc that Zoe has better range, interesting.

A lot of money to spend alright. No real car clubs in my area. West of Ireland :)
 
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