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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all! (Hope I’m ok putting this in the general forum, as it is about both the Zoe and e-208, so couldn’t decide which sub-forum to put it in)

I’ve been an EV owner for almost a year now, with a leased e-Golf. I have friends and family all over the country so do a lot of long trips, and that has given me a chance to assess the reality of doing such trips in an EV. I will say that, much as there is a lot I love about my e-Golf, the range is too low for me, and the charging speed so poor with a hot battery, and I would not buy another one (if VW still made them).

So I’m thinking ahead to my next car when my lease runs out, will probably be buying cash outright for the next one. And I have narrowed it down to the Zoe or the e-208. I like the fact that the charge port is on the front of the Zoe (the fact that some chargers in the UK are in places that are almost inaccessible to reverse up to is another thing that you learn from EV owning experience!), but the main reason I was leaning Zoe was the fact that it has 30-40 miles extra range than the e-208.

But after a long road trip in the Golf yesterday, in which my final charge was at a trickle due to multiple rapid charges on a very hot day, I started wondering whether how the car charges is more important than it’s absolute range, so thought I’d see what the experts here think.

Yes, the Zoe has better range, but from what I’ve read it does not have liquid battery cooling, and only charges up to 50kW. The e-208, shorter range, but again from what I’ve read it does have liquid battery cooling, and can charge up to 100kW once more of those chargers start rolling out in the UK.

So I now wonder, in the real world, lets say I was doing a drive from Scotland to the South Coast and back, which car would get me there first on a hot day? The Zoe would go longer between charges, but when I do charge, the speed would be slower (and I guess getting progressively slower due to the battery temperature), whereas the e-208 would need to stop for a charge sooner, but if I find a 100kW charger it would be a quicker charge, and it’s more likely to reliably hit those speeds all day due to the more advanced battery cooling.

What do you all think? Am I right to now be wondering whether the Zoe’s heralded longer range is really as important compared to it’s rivals as it appears on face value? Really it’s a what’s more important on a long trip, range or charging speed question.

Also, if I’ve misstated anything about the battery cooling in either vehicle, please correct me. It’s hard to find info on this stuff!

Thanks!
 

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The 208 will charge faster than the Zoe from the first charge, and should continue to charge faster throughout the day. If going a significant distance beyond the range of the battery pack, that would be my preference over a little extra range in the battery that you may get with the Zoe.

There are already plenty of chargers that can charge at higher rates than 50kW so even today that has it's benefits.
 

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Probably worth watching these videos



For the example you give, with 100kW charging available a given, which is by no means a given, the e208 would be quite a lot faster.

You can also have a go at planning journeys on ABRP.


I've also went through a similar exercise, but I've plumped for the Zoe.
 

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On a longer journey the extra boot space and interior space in the Zoe is going to be useful.

Also remember the secret Zoe trick that it can charge at 22 kW on AC. This is useful when chargers are blocked or you want to get a cheeky free charge at a destination charger.

In the real world most rapids are limited to 50 kW, so I imagine they’re pretty equivalent on a longer journey.

On UK motorways with all the roadworks I imagine you’d only need a couple of charges on a Zoe 50 to get from Scotland to the South Coast?
 

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I can't speak for the ZOE ZE 50, but my 22 kWh has absolutely no problems with multiple rapid charging. The forced air cooling doesn't have a problem in keeping the battery temperature in check. When rapid charging after a motorway run you hear the battery fans come on after a few minutes and the climate control compressor runs. There's a heat exchange radiator in the battery cooling system to deliver cold air to the batteries. By the time you get to the next rapid charger the battery has dropped in temperature to the point where it doesn't need to turn the battery cooling on straight away.

It might be worth expanding your selection list to include the VW ID3, if your going to do regular long distances the 77 kWh version with 150 kW charging might be the most suitable car for you. It's not going to be available straight away I don't get the feeling that it's going to be too long. Another car that's worth taking a look at is the Kona with a 64 kWh battery.

The one thing that puts me off the e-208 and the Kona for that matter is that they have been designed to have either an electric drive train or ICE which means that there's a compromise in the utilisation of space. A pure EV platform means the bonnet can be shortened to sufficient for a crumple zone only giving more space inside the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks 80698 and booms! I’ll watch those videos!

On a longer journey the extra boot space and interior space in the Zoe is going to be useful.

Also remember the secret Zoe trick that it can charge at 22 kW on AC. This is useful when chargers are blocked or you want to get a cheeky free charge at a destination charger.

In the real world most rapids are limited to 50 kW, so I imagine they’re pretty equivalent on a longer journey.

On UK motorways with all the roadworks I imagine you’d only need a couple of charges on a Zoe 50 to get from Scotland to the South Coast?
Thanks cah197! That’s a good point about the 22kW on the Zoe, always keen to save a fees £s where I can! The extra space isn’t a big deal for me though as I’m single and don’t have kids, so don’t carry much with me.

I take your point on the lack of 100kW chargers, but this should change over time. Plus, what I’m really wondering here is whether it’s even 50kW Vs 100kW in reality between the two cars? I imagine it may be this for the first rapid charge of the day, but if the Zoe is anything like my e-Golf without liquid battery cooling, that 50kW speed gets lower and lower with every rapid charge I do on a journey. Whereas I’m imagining the liquid cooled e-Golf will hit it’s stated charging speeds more reliably all day?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I can't speak for the ZOE ZE 50, but my 22 kWh has absolutely no problems with multiple rapid charging. The forced air cooling doesn't have a problem in keeping the battery temperature in check. When rapid charging after a motorway run you hear the battery fans come on after a few minutes and the climate control compressor runs. There's a heat exchange radiator in the battery cooling system to deliver cold air to the batteries. By the time you get to the next rapid charger the battery has dropped in temperature to the point where it doesn't need to turn the battery cooling on straight away.

It might be worth expanding your selection list to include the VW ID3, if your going to do regular long distances the 77 kWh version with 150 kW charging might be the most suitable car for you. It's not going to be available straight away I don't get the feeling that it's going to be too long. Another car that's worth taking a look at is the Kona with a 64 kWh battery.

The one thing that puts me off the e-208 and the Kona for that matter is that they have been designed to have either an electric drive train or ICE which means that there's a compromise in the utilisation of space. A pure EV platform means the bonnet can be shortened to sufficient for a crumple zone only giving more space inside the car.
Thanks, that’s good to know! Maybe I’m being unfair to the Zoe by comparing it with my e-Golf in charging speed degradation. I just know that my charges get slower and slower in an e-Golf throughout the day, and assumed a Zoe without liquid battery cooling would be the same. But maybe I’m wrong about this?

Oh man, I’d love an ID3, but unfortunately I won’t shake enough out of my piggy bank to afford that! :LOL:

You do make a good point on the ‘compromised’ nature of EV platforms that are also ICE platforms. As I say, I don’t carry a lot of people/stuff, so it’s not a deal-breaker, but more space is still a nice to have either way!
 

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Hi all! (Hope I’m ok putting this in the general forum, as it is about both the Zoe and e-208, so couldn’t decide which sub-forum to put it in)

I’ve been an EV owner for almost a year now, with a leased e-Golf. I have friends and family all over the country so do a lot of long trips, and that has given me a chance to assess the reality of doing such trips in an EV. I will say that, much as there is a lot I love about my e-Golf, the range is too low for me, and the charging speed so poor with a hot battery, and I would not buy another one (if VW still made them).

So I’m thinking ahead to my next car when my lease runs out, will probably be buying cash outright for the next one. And I have narrowed it down to the Zoe or the e-208. I like the fact that the charge port is on the front of the Zoe (the fact that some chargers in the UK are in places that are almost inaccessible to reverse up to is another thing that you learn from EV owning experience!), but the main reason I was leaning Zoe was the fact that it has 30-40 miles extra range than the e-208.

But after a long road trip in the Golf yesterday, in which my final charge was at a trickle due to multiple rapid charges on a very hot day, I started wondering whether how the car charges is more important than it’s absolute range, so thought I’d see what the experts here think.

Yes, the Zoe has better range, but from what I’ve read it does not have liquid battery cooling, and only charges up to 50kW. The e-208, shorter range, but again from what I’ve read it does have liquid battery cooling, and can charge up to 100kW once more of those chargers start rolling out in the UK.

So I now wonder, in the real world, lets say I was doing a drive from Scotland to the South Coast and back, which car would get me there first on a hot day? The Zoe would go longer between charges, but when I do charge, the speed would be slower (and I guess getting progressively slower due to the battery temperature), whereas the e-208 would need to stop for a charge sooner, but if I find a 100kW charger it would be a quicker charge, and it’s more likely to reliably hit those speeds all day due to the more advanced battery cooling.

What do you all think? Am I right to now be wondering whether the Zoe’s heralded longer range is really as important compared to it’s rivals as it appears on face value? Really it’s a what’s more important on a long trip, range or charging speed question.

Also, if I’ve misstated anything about the battery cooling in either vehicle, please correct me. It’s hard to find info on this stuff!

Thanks!
Not enough between them in terms of time to destination on long trips in UK so would decide on other reasons after test driving both.
 

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Plus, what I’m really wondering here is whether it’s even 50kW Vs 100kW in reality between the two cars? I imagine it may be this for the first rapid charge of the day, but if the Zoe is anything like my e-Golf without liquid battery cooling, that 50kW speed gets lower and lower with every rapid charge I do on a journey. Whereas I’m imagining the liquid cooled e-Golf will hit it’s stated charging speeds more reliably all day?
Well of course the e208 only charges at 100 kW for a short period before ramping down. So I don’t think the difference is that much considering the range is less in the e208.

Considering the range of the Zoe is well over 200 miles on a charge, you’d need to be travelling well over 400 miles to require a second charge. I haven’t tried it personally, but I doubt there’s much degradation in charging speed.
 

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Considering the range of the Zoe is well over 200 miles on a charge, you’d need to be travelling well over 400 miles to require a second charge. I haven’t tried it personally, but I doubt there’s much degradation in charging speed.
I also don't have personal experience with the ZE50 yet, but from what I have heard the charge rate on the 3rd charge doesn't go above 30kW going by recent testing involving continuous driving and charging which was in hot weather.

I've attached the Zoe charging curve from Fastned here. They don't currently have one for the 208 sadly. You can likely assume that this will be how it behaves for the first 2 charges (which should be more than enough range for most) and then will eventually slow down from that point forward.

133427
 

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Just to complicate things further, I would throw in a used 28kWh Hyundai Ioniq into the mix.

One thing from Bjorn's video that I took away was that the older 28kWh is unexpectedly good despite it's lower battery capacity. When compared with the e-208, the incredible efficiency and good charging rate made it comparable on long road trips.

Pick up a good used one for much cheaper, and will very likely have much lower depreciation costs given you can buy used. They have good long warranties as well I think?
 

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I also don't have personal experience with the ZE50 yet, but there's one in the company I work for undergoing testing right now. From what I have heard from the guy who has been playing with it, the charge rate on the 3rd charge doesn't go above 30kW going by recent testing involving conrinuous driving and charging which was in hot weather.

I've attached the Zoe charging curve from Fastned here. They don't currently have one for the 208 sadly. You can likely assume that this will be how it behaves for the first 2 charges (which should be more than enough range for most) and then will eventually slow down from that point forward.

View attachment 133427
The e-208 will charge faster on a 50kW charger: Has anyone charged an e-208 on a 150kW charger? How was...

00-73% 49.5 kWh
73-82% 27 kWh
82-87% 22 kWh
87-88% 11 kWh
 

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Just to complicate things further, I would throw in a used 28kWh Hyundai Ioniq into the mix.

One thing from Bjorn's video that I took away was that the older 28kWh is unexpectedly good despite it's lower battery capacity. When compared with the e-208, the incredible efficiency and good charging rate made it comparable on long road trips.

Pick up a good used one for much cheaper, and will very likely have much lower depreciation costs given you can buy used. They have good long warranties as well I think?
A 28kWh Ioniq is good competition against a 40kWh car from any other brand in most cases. But against these 50kWh models you're not going to have the range to compete. Yes you'll charge faster, but you will have to stop more to do so, and ideally will have to plan all your stops at higher powered chargers to stop it from making your journey take longer. They are good cars, but not quite good enough if you're regularly travelling longer distances imo.
 

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A 28kWh Ioniq is good competition against a 40kWh car from any other brand in most cases. But against these 50kWh models you're not going to have the range to compete. Yes you'll charge faster, but you will have to stop more to do so, and ideally will have to plan all your stops at higher powered chargers to stop it from making your journey take longer. They are good cars, but not quite good enough if you're regularly travelling longer distances imo.
IIRC the useable capacity for the Ioniq is 28kWh (gross is ~30kWh), whereas the e-208 is closer to 45kWh useable (50kWh gross).

On Bjorn's 1000km he averaged 214wh/km on the e-208, vs 160wh/km for the Ioniq. If my maths is correct, based on the useable capacities above that would give the e-208 a range or around 130miles and the Ioniq around 110miles.

Really isn't much in it when you account for useable capacity and efficiency....I imagine you would plan the same charging stops for both cars in nearly all journeys?
Explains exactly why the challenge was done in 12hr15mins in the Ioniq and 12hr30mins in the e-208.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks everyone for the info and links... having looked through it all, I think it has cleared it up a bit for me. I may be over-simplifying, but here’s how I‘m thinking of it now...

For long round trip drives (let’s assume no destination charging) of 400 miles or less, the Zoe is probably the better proposition. Will need to charge once, and can go further on the charging you did at home before the journey (thus cheaper!). The e-208 on the other hand you will likely need to charge twice, and although faster charge speed on all rapid chargers, you probably still won’t make up the time of the extra stop plus it’ll be more expensive as more of the electricity you use on your journey will have come from expensive rapid chargers.

Once you start going on round trips of over 400 miles, that’s where the e-208 pulls ahead assuming you can find 100kW+ rapid chargers in convenient places on the route (a big assumption in the UK in 2020), because you can do multiple very rapid charges to around 75% or so along the way.

Is that fair? If so, this nudges me back towards the Zoe as although I do sometimes do round trips of over 400 miles, most of my longer trips will be within that 400 mile round trip radius. Plus, of course, a lot of the time I will be able to find destination charging anyway.

Then, ultimately it’ll be the other things to weigh into the final decision... no auto emergency braking or adaptive cruise in the Zoe; less space in the e-208; less convenient charge port location in the e-208; no arm rest in the Zoe; no seat height adjustment in the Zoe... etc. etc.

Ioniq is an interesting suggestion! I’ll look into it more, but I wonder if the fact that the newer Ioniq with the bigger battery’s efficiency is so much less suggests that the efficiency of the older one in the test may have been an anomaly anyway? Will look into that some more but I think I’m probably still Zoe Vs e-208!
 

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I also don't have personal experience with the ZE50 yet, but there's one in the company I work for undergoing testing right now. From what I have heard from the guy who has been playing with it, the charge rate on the 3rd charge doesn't go above 30kW going by recent testing involving conrinuous driving and charging which was in hot weather.

I've attached the Zoe charging curve from Fastned here. They don't currently have one for the 208 sadly. You can likely assume that this will be how it behaves for the first 2 charges (which should be more than enough range for most) and then will eventually slow down from that point forward.

View attachment 133427
I think that chart is from early Fastned beta testing on the Zoe50. It's a bit better than that now.

But charging slows on the third charge you say? So I'm going to have to wait a little longer after 800 miles or so?

I suspect that would be a welcome bit of rest...
 

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Thanks everyone for the info and links... having looked through it all, I think it has cleared it up a bit for me. I may be over-simplifying, but here’s how I‘m thinking of it now...

For long round trip drives (let’s assume no destination charging) of 400 miles or less, the Zoe is probably the better proposition. Will need to charge once, and can go further on the charging you did at home before the journey (thus cheaper!). The e-208 on the other hand you will likely need to charge twice, and although faster charge speed on all rapid chargers, you probably still won’t make up the time of the extra stop plus it’ll be more expensive as more of the electricity you use on your journey will have come from expensive rapid chargers.

Once you start going on round trips of over 400 miles, that’s where the e-208 pulls ahead assuming you can find 100kW+ rapid chargers in convenient places on the route (a big assumption in the UK in 2020), because you can do multiple very rapid charges to around 75% or so along the way.

Is that fair? If so, this nudges me back towards the Zoe as although I do sometimes do round trips of over 400 miles, most of my longer trips will be within that 400 mile round trip radius. Plus, of course, a lot of the time I will be able to find destination charging anyway.

Then, ultimately it’ll be the other things to weigh into the final decision... no auto emergency braking or adaptive cruise in the Zoe; less space in the e-208; less convenient charge port location in the e-208; no arm rest in the Zoe; no seat height adjustment in the Zoe... etc. etc.

Ioniq is an interesting suggestion! I’ll look into it more, but I wonder if the fact that the newer Ioniq with the bigger battery’s efficiency is so much less suggests that the efficiency of the older one in the test may have been an anomaly anyway? Will look into that some more but I think I’m probably still Zoe Vs e-208!
From the sounds of it, for your requirements, it really won't matter what you go for. So it's down to what you prefer to drive and what deal you can get.

Good luck and happy EVing!
 

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Ioniq is an interesting suggestion! I’ll look into it more, but I wonder if the fact that the newer Ioniq with the bigger battery’s efficiency is so much less suggests that the efficiency of the older one in the test may have been an anomaly anyway? Will look into that some more but I think I’m probably still Zoe Vs e-208!
I thought the efficiency was the same? I know he quotes 200wh/km on his 1000km of the 38kWh, but that was in the winter with average temps at 3degrees.

The reason it is much slower overall is partly that it was done in winter, but also the 38kWh had a much lower charging curve for reasons that are not entirely clear....
 

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Thanks everyone for the info and links... having looked through it all, I think it has cleared it up a bit for me. I may be over-simplifying, but here’s how I‘m thinking of it now...

For long round trip drives (let’s assume no destination charging) of 400 miles or less, the Zoe is probably the better proposition. Will need to charge once, and can go further on the charging you did at home before the journey (thus cheaper!). The e-208 on the other hand you will likely need to charge twice, and although faster charge speed on all rapid chargers, you probably still won’t make up the time of the extra stop plus it’ll be more expensive as more of the electricity you use on your journey will have come from expensive rapid chargers.

Once you start going on round trips of over 400 miles, that’s where the e-208 pulls ahead assuming you can find 100kW+ rapid chargers in convenient places on the route (a big assumption in the UK in 2020), because you can do multiple very rapid charges to around 75% or so along the way.

Is that fair? If so, this nudges me back towards the Zoe as although I do sometimes do round trips of over 400 miles, most of my longer trips will be within that 400 mile round trip radius. Plus, of course, a lot of the time I will be able to find destination charging anyway.

Then, ultimately it’ll be the other things to weigh into the final decision... no auto emergency braking or adaptive cruise in the Zoe; less space in the e-208; less convenient charge port location in the e-208; no arm rest in the Zoe; no seat height adjustment in the Zoe... etc. etc.

Ioniq is an interesting suggestion! I’ll look into it more, but I wonder if the fact that the newer Ioniq with the bigger battery’s efficiency is so much less suggests that the efficiency of the older one in the test may have been an anomaly anyway? Will look into that some more but I think I’m probably still Zoe Vs e-208!
I have recently done a trip from Bournemouth to Dundee, Blairgowrie to Bournemouth in the ZE50.

That was a distance of 510 miles and we needed 4 charges, each way. This was travelling at about 60-65 mph up until the fourth charge but then just over 70mph for the last part of the journey knowing that we could get down to 10% SOC at our destination where we could then top up.

I was surprised just how comfortable and stress free the journey was in the Zoe....it was a joy to drive.

I posted details of the journey along with a chart detailing the stops, etc. which might be helpful.

First EV Long Journey - Bournemouth-Dundee /...
 
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