[Roschambo]

I am thinking of buying myself a second hand electric car, either a zoe or a leaf, the 30 or 40 kWh version.

One of the questions is what is the maximum length of "stick" that will fit in either one? From the rear window into the passenger footwell or up onto the dashboard? For occasional building material transport.

Also what is the difference in battery degradation between the zoe and leaf?

 

[80698]

I Can't give you exact measurements, but I can tell you that the LEAF is significantly larger than the Zoe. The LEAF will likely work out a fair bit cheaper too, assuming you want to own and not lease the battery pack.

Zoe has a better battery health over the long term than a LEAF since it has a proper thermal management system. Nissan's batteries are passively cooled so tend to wear a bit faster. That's not to say it is a bad choice though. Still very capable, good value for money, and with a little bit of care you can keep the battery in pretty good shape for years to come.

 

[Roschambo]

Well I live in Europe, the Zoe is a bit cheaper even if I were to buy the battery pack, another option would be to buy a 210 quickcharge with the battery upgrade/lease battery 15k for the leaf and 8k for the upgraded 210 zoe, it will still have to pay the battery lease though.

 

[Aleras]

The Leaf is a substantially bigger car, it's a large family hatchback. With the seats down you can get a decent amount in the back. I did a full load to the tip and got a surprising amount in.

On the battery degradation the trend is around 2% loss a year. I just bought a 16 Plate 30KWH Tekna with 19k on the clock as a town car. It's got 90.5% SOH on Leaf Spy at 5 years old.

A guy with an Etron on here that is 18 months old his battery is losing around 3.3% a year capacity thus far. It's already lost 5% of its capacity all be it a 40k miles.

At that rate it will have lost going on 10% in 3 years which is shocking really. There are gen 1 leafs that did big miles as taxi etc and had nothing like that degradation even with higher mileage.

So providing you check properly and buy a decent one the battery degradation is not bad at all compared to other EVs. Leafs don't do well in hot climates but the UK is not hot so no issue over here.

If you look on here the Zoe reliability is not as good as the Leaf it would seem. It's got a pretty poor reputation build quality wise.

A friend of mine has had two leafs over 9 years. Other than tires and servicing he's had no issues at all with either of them. They are reliable well made cars.

 

[Roschambo]

The Leaf does seem to be a better car as the Zoe is still a French car... Electronics and French cars don't seem to mix well. However the Zoe with lease is significantly cheaper.
If they just homologated the Zoe to be able to tow a trailer.

 

[proddick]

"The Leaf isn't an unreliable car, so the fact that it sits in the bottom three here is a testament to the dependability of electric cars in general" Source - 2020 What Car? Reliability Survey: electric cars

 

[Aleras]

Zoe isn't on that list ! Also it's early gen 2 cars by the sound of it. It's not bottom 3 either. Have to assume Zoe is further down that list ?

 

[proddick]

Zoe isn't on that list ! Also it's early gen 1 cars by the sound of it. We are not talking about early gen 1 cars here.

There are two entries for Leaf. Zoe is less reliable than Leaf from previous data, but still far more reliable than many ICE, particularly JLR!

I wouldn't suggest choosing between Zoe and Leaf based on reliability, but what suits someone based on use case and personal preference. For example, I hate analogue speedo so would not have a Leaf, despite slightly better reliability.

 

[Aleras]

And substantially more space, more equipment etc... No analogue Speedo on Gen 1 leaf ?

Also the Zoe isn't even in the top 8 reliability wise. So substantially less reliable is the working assumption. I very much doubt substantially better than JLR. Certainly not based on that list !

 

[proddick]

And substantially more space, more equipment etc... No analogue Speedo on Gen 1 leaf ?

Yes, as I say people should choose based on their needs. Some may want more space, others may need a smaller car due to parking space, etc.

Both are good electric cars, but people need to be realistic about range on older Leaf especially if battery has lost a bar or two.

 

[Aleras]

Absolutely you would never buy one without checking out the battery properly as I suggested.

 

[Roschambo]

My current car is a Daihatsu Sirion that I bought for 900 euros 5 years ago. It can tow up to 750 kg. And now because I want to be less of a burden on the environment while being able to visit my recently disabled father. I would have to spend 15k+ to buy an electric replacement (I need the range) that is not even allowed to tow anything. So all options are bad

 

[cah197]

Outlander PHEV?

 

[Roschambo]

Outlander PHEV taxes are quite high, 50 euro per month, and it would in total use more fuel when going to visit my father than the Daihatsu Sirion.

 

[Aleras]

In this price range I doubt you can find an EV that can tow.

 

[foureyes]

2.4m studs..

 

[cah197]

Outlander PHEV taxes are quite high, 50 euro per month, and it would in total use more fuel when going to visit my father than the Daihatsu Sirion.

Who told you going the EV route would be cheaper?

 

[SuperLeaf]

If you can afford it, I would go with the Leaf 40. It’s about as big as a Tesla Model 3 and you can fit things up to 3 meters long.

If you want to save money, consider a Leaf 30 and if need be, a (Free) quick charge on the way to your disabled parent.
No amount of quick charges will exceed your savings at purchase.

The Zoe, I can’t recommend, the reliability is not consistent although it’s mostly hit and miss.

 

[Roschambo]

2.4m studs..

That is not bad, my Sirion can do the same.

Who told you going the EV route would be cheaper?

I do not mind spending more for less, but the PHEV has not much ev range, and when it runs out, it will quickly become better to have driven the distance in my Daihatsu


In terms of range it would be about twice as expensive to buy a 40kWh leaf, I misread the listing before, it was excluding VAT, 9k vs 18k. It would take 10 years to for the battery lease to overtake the leaf which at that point will probably need a new battery too...

 

[SuperLeaf]

That is not bad, my Sirion can do the same.


I do not mind spending more for less, but the PHEV has not much ev range, and when it runs out, it will quickly become better to have driven the distance in my Daihatsu


In terms of range it would be about twice as expensive to buy a 40kWh leaf, I misread the listing before, it was excluding VAT, 9k vs 18k. It would take 10 years to for the battery lease to overtake the leaf which at that point will probably need a new battery too...

Leaf 30’s are popping up for around 10K Euro.

I would go with that.

You are in The Netherlands, you’ve got free fast chargers at a handful of Lidl’s and otherwise Fastned all over the place.

Even a 24kWh could work.

I regularly drive from Antwerp in Belgium, to Schiphol to take flights. It’s about 160km/100 miles.
I Fastcharge once near Rotterdam and once near Schiphol.
My Leaf 24 only has 16kWh remaining, but I make it work by taking more time for the trips.
The savings are worth the effort.

Shell/New Motion has cheap fast chargers at some of their gas stations, like the one in front of the Feyenoord stadium, only 35 euro cents per kWh.