[JohnDory]

I just bought a ZE40 R110 (2019 plate) yesterday. I've been having trouble getting it to charge at a decent rate on public chargers. Today the battery was at around 60%. I plugged it in to two different 22kW chargers, and both times the estimated charge time was around 6 hours. For one of these charging sessions I left the car for over an hour and added only 5kW hours of charge, so it doesn't seem like the charge rate increases after it starts charging.

It seems like the vehicle might be limiting the charge rate to 3kW, even though the charger is rated at 22kW. My question is, why? It is cold today, sub zero temperatures. Could that be the reason?

I'm worried that charging this car is going to be completely impractical if it's going to take >12 hours to charge 0 to 100% even connected to the fastest charger that the vehicle supports. Could this be a defect with my vehicle, or due to cold weather, or is this normal behaviour for a ZE40?

 

[proddick]

Are you sure the cable you are using is a 3 phase 32A? With a used car it is possible an incorrect cable was included.

 

[JohnDory]

Are you sure the cable you are using is a 3 phase 32A? With a used car it is possible an incorrect cable was included.

Hmm, no I'm not sure at all. Is there an easy way to check whether it's a 3-phase or single-phase cable? If it were single phase though, should I not still be able to get 7kW? I'm pretty sure it's limiting to 3kW.

 

[proddick]

16A cable would limit to 3.3kW. Check for markings on cable and let us know.

 

[80698]

Put the heater on full power, then go for a good drive, ideally along a motorway for 20 minutes or so. That should put a good load on the battery and heat it up. Go straight to a chargepoint afterwards and try plugging in. See if you get a faster rate anywhere near 22kW.

It definitely sounds like the battery is too cold. If you check the cable as suggested above me and it is definitely 32A (Ideally 3x32A) try my above suggestion. You'll likely find that it will then start charging at close to full speed.

 

[JohnDory]

I did drive it for a bit (20km) before attempting to charge it earlier, so it should have had some chance to warm up. At the moment I've left it to charge (slowly) at a charge point near my flat. When I go to take it off charge I'll take a look at the cable and report back. Hopefully that's the issue. Thanks for these suggestions!

 

[Dave Barr]

I have a ZE40 Q90 and the slow charging on a cold battery is perfectly normal I'm afraid. Somewhere in the forums is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the expected charge speeds with the SOC and battery temperature.

I was charging on my local 22kw today at 70%. It crawling

at 2.5 kW at 80% SOC. It was - 6c at my house last night so the battery was still very cold after a 10 mile spirited drive. The battery heater was on as well.

 

[Dave Barr]

Q90 only charging 26kW DC?

Evening, folks. (y) I'm currently at a 43 kW rapid charger. I've noticed that, according to CanZE, the car is taking in 42.2 kW AC but is only charging a converted 25.9 kW DC. This is disappointing and only marginally better than if I were to plug in to a cheaper (or free) 22 kW charger. Is...

www.speakev.com

You'll find the spreadsheet there in a post by @yoh-there

I suspect your cable etc is fine and it's just the cold battery.

 

[AndrewC]

I did drive it for a bit (20km) before attempting to charge it earlier, so it should have had some chance to warm up. At the moment I've left it to charge (slowly) at a charge point near my flat. When I go to take it off charge I'll take a look at the cable and report back. Hopefully that's the issue. Thanks for these suggestions!

That distance is way too short to warm it up much at all. The low temperature combined with the battery at 60% SOC will lead to very slow charging.

 

[proddick]

Sorry, it is BS that a Zoe that only charges at 3kw is due to a cold battery unless it is close to full (as above). I had a Zoe ZE40 for almost 3 years and it never charged that slow, irrespective of battery temp at 60% SOC.

There are only two explanations for the OPs issue - either the wrong cable (16A single phase is my suspicion) or a faulty car.

 

[JohnDory]

Ok, so to update: I checked the cable and it says 32A, 480V. Don't know if this means it's single-phase or 3 phase. There are also some inscrutable markings: "coroplast S05BQ-F 5x4 + 0,75 VDE REG -NR 8491 17/18 CE" if that means anything to anyone.

The car managed to complete charging, it took about 4 hours to go from 60% to 100% in the end.

Does anyone know how the presented kilometers of range remaining should be interpreted? When charged to 100% it said 236km range remaining. This is a lot less than the 'nominal' range of the car (300km WLTP), does the max range change depending on battery conditions? Should I expect to see a higher max range in summer when the battery is warmer? Or does this range indicate capacity decrease due to aging of the battery, and if so how much lower is this than a brand new car?

The 'kilometers remaining' value also seems to fall off very quickly, much faster than the actual distance driven. It was down to 234km before I left the charging station car park, and down to 228km by the time I'd completed the <2km trip back to my flat.

If my full battery is 236km, and I can only drive 1km for every 4km does that mean that I will only get 60km of range out of my 300km EV??? It's -5 degrees C outside, and the car has done 20000km, so I know I should expect the capacity to be a bit lower, but what I've seen so far seems drastically worse than what I expected.

 

[dparr59]

I drove 10 miles today and ( SOC 35% ) plugged into a 22kw socket Geniepoint and in 39 mins got nearly 6Kw
Car has been sat outside for 5 days and the temp was -1
I find you need to drive over 40 miles at 60-70 mph to warm the battery up at this time of year
thats why its cheaper to charge up at home to full and then charge up after a good long run on route and charge from a low state of charge ( 20% )
There is a free Engie charger 3 miles away but at this time of year its quicker and cheaper if i charge up at home
then drive 3 miles to find the speed is the same as charging at home or worst even if it is free.

When​			24/01/2021 15:02:00​
	Where​			GP11698 @ Morrisons Selby​
	Outlet​			#1 22kW AC Type 2 Socket Only​
	Duration​			39 minutes​
	Energy​			5.84 kWh​

Charging at Home :

Warm Battery Summer ( Q90 ZE 40 )

 

[Dave Barr]

Sorry, it is BS that a Zoe that only charges at 3kw is due to a cold battery unless it is close to full (as above). I had a Zoe ZE40 for almost 3 years and it never charged that slow, irrespective of battery temp at 60% SOC.

There are only two explanations for the OPs issue - either the wrong cable (16A single phase is my suspicion) or a faulty car.

So... I faked my Canze screenshot? Or the Maxpwr spreadsheet is just a conspiracy theory? 🤣 As I said earlier, my battery heater had to come on just get that. Sure it improved to 3kw just as I unplugged it after shopping for nearly 30 mins. The fact remains, the chap's cable looks like the right one pointing to it be a cold battery situation. And given his location, it'll be the most significant contributing factor.

As I have said in other threads, I drive 100 miles in winter before I stop to charge as the battery is a pain to get to heat up sufficiently to allow a 22+ kW charge rate.

Please have a look at the Maxpwr spreadsheet even if you don't have a Q90 just to the effect the cold and SOC have on the charge rate.

 

[dparr59]

Maxpwr spreadsheet

Zoe Q90 Rapid Charge Curve - Mapped and Graphed

I know rapid charging contains lots of variables, but today was about the perfect set and I got the chance to monitor and map the charge curve. So this is a fairly accurate chart showing charge dropoff in good conditions. I arrived on the charger with 9% Battery left, it was a motorway run so...

www.speakev.com

 

[yoh-there]

@JohnDory It's of course possible there is something wrong with the car and/or cable. But if I understand you have it since yesterday. I suggest to drive around a bit for a couple of days. Staring at the guess-o-meter with 100% full battery and the car not aware of your driving style, the cold, etc, really can throw you on a completely wrong tangent. Slow down. Do a charge after a drive and on 25% State of Charge. 99% sure everything is mighty fine.

Apologies if this sounds a bit disparaging, not intended that way.

 

[srichards]

Zoe is nesh. Worth trying a tethered rapid AC to see if that's any better. That would rule out cable issues if it's the same.

If the cabin temperature is set to be higher eg 24c does that help warm the battery at all with the extra power used and heat from the cabin hopefully seeping through?

 

[Hilltop Dave]

There are also some inscrutable markings: "coroplast S05BQ-F 5x4 + 0,75 VDE REG -NR 8491 17/18 CE" if that means anything to anyone.

The "5x4 + 0,75" means there are five 4.0mm2 conductors (3 phases, plus Neutral and Earth) plus one 0.75mm2 conductor for the control wire. The use of 4.0mm2 conductors for 32A is a bit mean, and could result in the cable getting over warm if left coiled (My Nissan-supplied Type 2 to Type 1 lead uses 6mm2 conductors).

 

[ArthurGreenWorld]

Out of curiosity I went with my ZE50 and plugged into a 22kw post... About 2 miles from home. Car battery and car COLD. Using standard Zoe type 2 cable.

Outside temp 2deg .. 1.14pm .. SOC 64%

@1.29pm 15min charge 3.12kw= 12.48kw/h. 70%

@1.44pm 30min charge 6.3kw= 12.6kw/h. 76%

@2.14pm 1hr charge 12.9kw=12.9kw/h 89%

Range was shown at 152miles 3.4m/kw 89% battery.

 

[Dave Barr]

Using Canze I've found that the ZE50 battery warms up a heck of a lot quicker than my ZE40. I don't know what the difference in design is but the charge curve is a lot better, even on just AC 22 kW charging. The temp would rise from 1c to 13c in under an hour. The ZE40 doesn't heat as quick. I assume the ZE50 has a more potent battery heater than the one n in the ZE40.

 

[80698]

Using Canze I've found that the ZE50 battery warms up a heck of a lot quicker than my ZE40. I don't know what the difference in design is but the charge curve is a lot better, even on just AC 22 kW charging. The temp would rise from 1c to 13c in under an hour. The ZE40 doesn't heat as quick. I assume the ZE50 has a more potent battery heater than the one n in the ZE40.

The battery pack is the same physical size between the ZE40 and ZE50 isn't it? Maybe it's just the increased density allowing a faster build up of heat?