150 miles round journey once a fortnight

A 2015 Zoe is going to be a 22kWh battery model. You're going to have to be charging it along these journeys. So there's 2 things to note here:
1) You'll want a 'Q' Model with rapid charge support. For the 22kWh that's the Q210 Zoe you would be looking at.
2) The old Zoe rapid charges using the Type 2 AC Connector. This is considered to be dying off now. If you're regularly making longer journeys you need to be aware that this connector isn't available everywhere, and right now this statement also includes the likes of many motorway service stations too.

It may be worth considering other cars like the Nissan LEAF? Specifically a 30kWh with a good battery? As well as a bit more range you're also going to be getting CHAdeMO Rapid charging. This again isn't the latest standard but does have a bit more support than rapid AC Charging. It's also a little more robust and reliable than the Zoe. The battery should still have a bit of warranty left on it, and you will own both the car and battery pack.

 

For your usage I would avoid a 22kW Zoe, a 40 would work better for you. 150 mile round trip would be hard work with the smaller battery. Kia Soul may be worth a look, seven year warranty from new. Will you be able to charge at home, destination?

 

150 mile round trip would be hard work with the smaller battery.

Only assuming that you cannot charge at your destination. A "22kWh" Zoe will charge in around 4 hours from 0-98% at a 7 or 11kW charge point, or 10 hours using a "granny" charger. So if charging is available at or near your destination then a Zoe would still work, as would a LEAF24 although a LEAF30 is 25% better.

 

battery rentals never pays off.
First you'll be paying as much on rental as petrol would cost anyway, so you're not saving anything.
Second, most people will say "but it costs less", but they dont account that when you sell the car on after you used, the extra cost on the battery owned one, is recouped pretty much 100% ( for example, buy owned for 9k, sell 2years later for 8k, buy leased for 6k, sell 2 years later for 5k) while the £1k+ a year you pay on renting the battery is gone forever.

 

attery rentals never pays off.

Have you FB one back to be proved wrong by simple maths?

 

@80689 -Type 2 is far from dying off due to all home chargers being type 2 and all motorway services having type 2 (eventually)- there are many threads on here about it . please dont scare people off any type 2 vehicle

 

I didn't say Type 2 was dying off.
I said Type 2 Rapid was dying off. Whether you want to accept it or not there's less and less 43kW AC Chargepoints available as they get replaced or removed. New chargers being installed mostly lack 43kW AC Too.

22kW AC is (very slowly) being added to most service stations at the moment, but not all. Exceptions like Skelton Lake do exist where there is no Gridserve at all for example. But you need your own 3-Phase cable and it is going to make for a slower charge compared to rapid AC. I Personally wouldn't be buying a car to only charge at 22kW max if I knew I was going to be making regular long distance journeys.

I Have nothing against the Zoe. I drove one for many years. But it's about picking a car that's suitable for your needs. And a 22kW Zoe isn't something I would consider suitable for 150 mile trips every 2 weeks especially with the changes to public charging networks at the moment and winter months ahead of us.

 

Actually I was going for the Zoe as it's still a small hatchback Vs the Leaf, also I'll be aiming to install a home charger. I think the ID3 is too new so I don't want to risk teething issues.

I would only be able to get the newer 40kwh Zoe on PCP, is there anywhere you recommend to avoid inflated prices?

Thanks for all the comments, it's helped a lot, it's coming down to the fact technology is still new and not too much choice for small hatchbacks🙄

 

I would agree 40 kWh if the 150 mi was basically non-stop or short stop. If it's 75 mi to granny, stay for a couple of hours with a decent charger nearby, you'll be absolutely fine, especially if this is your "probe the waters" and the plan is to move up in a year or two. A Q model (I have one) is probably not needed. A nice to have yeah, but the R models are not to be avoided IMHO. Warranty others will comment on. My take is: if you buy say a 2015 ZOE and it has no nasty history, I would personally take the risk. The car will probably run close to forever. (I own a 2013 Q210)

Edit:

Actually I was going for the Zoe as it's still a small hatchback Vs the Leaf, also I'll be aiming to install a home charger. I think the ID3 is too new so I don't want to risk teething issues.

There ya go!!!

 

Doesn't really mater which 22kWh Zoe you buy, if you're on a long trip a Q did make more sense than an R until the Electric Highway ripped out all the AC rapid chargers. At best these sites will do 22kW AC (when they get round to installing chargers) so go for the cheapest best condition car you can find.

150mile round trip will be fine in a 22kWh Zoe just be aware you'll need 2 stops in winter, you might get away with 1 stop in Summer if you're car has low degradation and you drive it well and you destination charge to 100%. A stop at 22kW will take about an hour so factor that into you're 150mile trip. Might have taken 2-ish hours in an ICE but with a 22 it will take 4+

If you only use the 22 as a local run around i'd say it will be perfect for you. If however, like most folk, when you get your EV you love it so much you want to drive it everywhere you might wish to consider spending a bit more and going for a Zoe ZE40 or just any other brand with a larger than 40kWh battery.

 

Thanks for this, if I just make the jump to the higher ZE40 what kind of price would you say they're worth now?

Thanks everyone, it's really helped reading everyone's input!

 

Hello 🙂

I was looking about a week ago and came across 2021 reg Zoe’s starting from £20K.
There was a 2015 reg, battery owned with about 22k miles which was £11k but it means the battery warranty is just ended so decided against it

 

You can now buy out the battery on any battery-rental Zoe, so if you want a battery owned car then you have the full pick of Zoes available.

As others have said, I'd go for the ZE40 as you should just about manage the 150 miles in Winter. To give you an idea of battery buyout cost, we were recently quoted £3750 for a December 2017 ZE40 and £2,800 for a March 2016 22kwh. That said, I would say is that if you buy a battery rental ZE40 you would probably be better off paying the lowest monthly rental tariff and waiting until the battery gets to about £3,000 before you buy it out as the cost to buyout decreases faster than the monthly rentals until the price reach about £3,000. If you buy out the battery they give you a 8 year from when it was new warranty on it.

 

Thank you, to clarify if I buy out the battery of a say 2017 model, I will then have 4 years warranty left on it. Are you able to extend the warranty further post the 8 years completion in any way- without paying the monthly lease cost?

 

Nope. You can’t extend the battery warranty. Just the car itself. Only continuing to waste money on a lease would keep it going for longer.

With that said. You shouldn’t need to. Loads of people who are new to the world of EVs worry about this, but you aren’t going to suddenly need to replace your battery pack. In the Zoe especially, degradation isn’t bad at all.

Most cars will just lose a very small bit of range each year. It will drop gradually over time, very slowly. That’s how all batteries tend to wear. So not something that would mean you need to replace it. That would require something to have gone catastrophically wrong.

Don’t worry about battery warranty. It’s good to have when you first get the car as you can identify if there is a sign if something that doesn’t seem right if you were unlucky and got a bad car. It can be fixed for free. But after a while it’s not such a concern.

The warranty on the car itself is the greater worry to most. That’s something most will want to keep going in the long term.

 

By the time the car is 8 years old, a £59/mo perpetual battery warranty will be amazing value. Considering it's no cheap thing to drop and replace the battery even at a HEVRA garage, getting rid of the battery lease bears careful consideration if you want to keep the car for a long time.

 

by the time a battery goes bad, you already paid 15-20k of lease which is enough to buy a brand new EV.

 

Thank you everyone 🙂

 

After going from a 22kWh to a 40kWh car I can say that it is a freeing experience having the extra range.
Unless you found a really good deal then I'd be biased towards a ZE40, battery owned if you can find one at a decent price.

You really need to educate yourself on everything there is to know about warranties though if looking at an older car.
Any 22kWh car can have a warranty if the previous owner has kept up with the extended warranty, the vast majority do not. I'd not buy a Zoe without the extended warranty still running, even with repairs starting to come at sensible prices. The extended warranty is a nice safety net to fall back on. If a car doesn't have a warranty then you cannot add it back on.
Even ZE40 from 18/19 only have a three year warranty so some will already be out of original warranty. That could get expensive. There are ways to tell if a car has warranty as long as you can see the reg number

I think the battery warranty is a bit overhyped as they don't seem to degrade to a point where it will pay out. The old BMS software has normally been updated but the odd old one does show up here on occasion, normally sorted by the dealer for free after getting RCI involved. Apart from that 8 years is just a point where they will still be above the 70-75% threshold. Which makes sense from a manufactures point of view.

As others have said buying a battery owned car means it will be worth more when you come to sell it than a lease car, it is VERY unlikely to depreciate £600 a year more than a lease car, which is the crossover point. If they depreciated by the same percentage the price point would obviously get closer but by a decreasing amount, and still not close to the lease price. If you have the money battery owned seems the financially better call.
Old cars are getting the point where the lease might seem a good idea but having to pay out at least £600 a year for something you are probably never going to use just seems like a waste to me. At what point do they become unsaleable due to the high ongoing costs. A battery owned car is always going to have a resale value of at least the battery pack for power walls and the like.

You pays your money, you takes your choice. Just remember “Caveat Emptor”

 

My battery lease is dead money but i got a £16k car for £11k - thats how i look at it

 

but when you sell it, its also worth £5k less. so ultimately, the owned battery would of turned out cheaper overall. -Source: basic maths

 

i agree totally - financially stupid - "source me" lol (but that only happens when/if i sell the car)- and my £16k car cost £11k

Some people rent a home some people buy. neither is wrong its what ever suits the individual

 

if you dont sell the car. you will pay £10k more for every decade you keep the car. The more you "dont sell" the more you lose. so "keeping" as an argument factor is terrible

 

All comes down to whether you have the money at the time or not. There is some risk you take on when you own everything outright. If you plan to run the car as in X4dow's example and really hammer it then you'd be daft to take on the responsibility. That is rather an edge case though. For most of us the TCO is a decent factor in the decision.
If you aren't looking that far off, plan to live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse then why are on earth are you looking at a Zoe

It normally comes with age, when younger you have less disposable income yet still want the best shiny shiny you can get and lease/renting is seen as the solution. Once you become an older and somehow taking in thousands becomes the norm, throwing an extra few grand in to the pot is just common sense, with a dose of "why doesn't everyone just do this".
I have friends on both sides and we have many silly arguments about this sort of thing.

 

All comes down to whether you have the money at the time or not. There is some risk you take on when you own everything outright. If you plan to run the car as in X4dow's example and really hammer it then you'd be daft to take on the responsibility. That is rather an edge case though. For most of us the TCO is a decent factor in the decision.
If you aren't looking that far off, plan to live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse then why are on earth are you looking at a Zoe

It normally comes with age, when younger you have less disposable income yet still want the best shiny shiny you can get and lease/renting is seen as the solution. Once you become an older and somehow taking in thousands becomes the norm, throwing an extra few grand in to the pot is just common sense, with a dose of "why doesn't everyone just do this".
I have friends on both sides and we have many silly arguments about this sort of thing.

Why are you talking about "some risk"?
I bought my battery, if it died today, in 2 years, or in 4 years, i get a new one as well.
There's no "risk".
Would you pay £5000 MONTHLY rent for a house worth £200k? Because if there's a leak, the landlord will fix it?
That's what we comparing here.

I'm not debating the HIRING vs BUYING argument. I'm debating the fact that on renault zoes, the HIRING side, it highly overpriced. You're paying £1000+ a year RENT on something worth 4-5k,which if you paid the 4-5k for ownership, would ALSO be warranted up to 8 years and you'd recoup those 4-5k after you sell the car on. There's no risk, only people that understand basic maths, and those who dont.

 

Having had one, I can certainly recommend the ZE40 and for your use profile I think would be fine. The availability of 22kW charging is increasing and even a 7kW charging point near your destination (eg Tesco) would give you some margin on the return leg of the 150 mile round trip in winter.

My opinion is you would do best getting a good deal on a battery lease car and pay the £59 month for a year or two. By then buy-out prices will have dropped and maybe give you time to save up? Personally I wouldn't finance the extra cost of the battery at present. A bought-out battery has 8 year warranty (from date of registration) so I suggest as young a ZE40 as you can afford and (as you do few a year) don't worry if higher mileage.

As others have said, an active warranty on the car is important.

 

So, based on you title, you're considering shelling out £14k on a 2015 Zoe!!!!?

FFS, talk about over-priced.

How is anyone going to be able to afford these things in a 2nd hand market?

If you want an EV, go find a new car lease deal. There is no other sensible way to throw your money away on a car at the moment, unless you are planning to do long trips in which case you might need an ICE.

 

I would say that even a overpriced used car is still a better deal than leasing. Leasing/renting is always the most expensive way of getting anything.

 

All, thank you everyone. It's now about the best finance options.

I prefer to not pay the depreciation and go for an older ZE40 and not pay depreciation, however given the rise in inflation does new Zoe make sense?

This is the first time I'm doing PCP which will be for both - and want warranty and peace of mind in case anything goes wrong and would need to pay for the home charger, I haven't ever done a PCP before, but as I understand I can sell the car in a year if I so choose without a penalty.

Should I be scouting places such as carwow, or are there better places to look?

Thank you

 

.....and want warranty and peace of mind in case anything goes wrong ....

What sort of warranty are you expecting?

 

I think a ZE40 is a solid choice if you can afford it.

Cards on the table, I have a 22kWh since 2018 and love it but I would NOT buy one in 2021. After battery degradation (SOH hovers around 85% on mine) you're looking at 65 miles in winter, less however many miles you can get down to before you or your passengers start crying. If you could easily charge this wouldn't be so bad and certainly do look on Zap-Map and see what's around and what reliability is like. If there's a lot of "BP Pulse" don't rely on it, only about 1 in 6 of them work. As it stands there's no AC on the motorways here (this might change eventually?) so I can only go South, where there are cities like Lancaster and Preston (though it requires some patience as you have to come off the motorway and enter city traffic and lights etc). North I'm probably screwed. North-East (extended family) definitely screwed. Tebay? No AC. Kirkby Stephen? Geniepoint don't repair their old units, it's been offline for several months. Scotch Corner? No AC. I literally cannot make that journey any more unless I'm willing to sit at a 7kW part-way for 4 hours, we have to revive my dad's diesel or hire a car.

In a 40kWh it's much less of an issue. You have almost twice the range and it'll be a lot easier to find a 22kW socket somewhere within range.

I would respectfully disagree with the comment that a Q motor (rapid charging) is important - 43kW AC is a rare sight now. The motorways are all 22 or nothing now, with the odd exception of an old Ecotricity unit that hasn't been upgraded yet. Modern Geniepoints are 22kW socket, the old ones with the 43kW cable are falling apart and not getting repaired. Modern BP excludes AC, the old 50kW ones with 43kW AC are like 1 in 6 working. It's pretty much a unicorn, at least around here. And from 20 to 80% you're looking at a difference of like 10 minutes anyway.

Battery lease depends on the individual I suppose. I have the minimum at £49/month (never heard of them charging the excess) and calculated that for the cost of the battery I'd have to keep it for something like 8 years before it's uneconomical. You can buy the battery and sell it for more, or not and sell it for less. For me ultimately it's how much I want to spend per month on a car, which is about £100, which you sure as heck can't get on a PCP

Also I got mine for just under £7k and the same age car still seems to be worth about £7k so that's a positive.

 

Really insightful reading this, thank you so much everyone.