[NotAJagCustomerAnymore]

You quoted 5500 USD for a secondhand motor whereas someone was selling similar in UK for £550.
(Unless I misread something) it sounds like you should take a holiday in the UK and get the car sorted here for 5k all in including hotels and Pizza.

Gaz

How do I get the car to the UK though and at what cost?

 

[Brian G]

CHF seems quite obscure internationally

Not to this international lot.. or is it that we live in the past with our EVs?

Anyone heard of the CIFA lately?

 

[Brian G]

How do I get the car to the UK though and at what cost?

In a container?

Or you could contact Cleevely Motors and offer them a free few days holiday. They repair cars on your drive! (this is not a joke... YouTube James of James and Kate and Cleevely Motors.

 

[Steveev]

Based on what I have seen of other main dealers diagnosis of problems with EVs and the far from helpful approach I would definitely want to get the opinion of an independent specialist. It could just be that their diagnosis of what the problem is is wrong anyway.
ps international lot on here understand (wie viel douzig?) swiss francs
used to live in Thalwil so not far from you; very nice place.

 

[colinstone]

Is the vibration so bad you couldn't drive it the 500 miles odd? Or even buy your own car transporter truck, and sell it later.
The Ukraine guys in the next topic might have some ideas??

 

[i3S]

How do I get the car to the UK though and at what cost?

Google “transport car Switzerland to UK”. Any number of businesses doing just that. Costs about £500. Here’s one Car Shipping To Switzerland- International Car Movements

You can also ask for bids from transport companies on this site Courier Services - Get Delivery Quotes In Minutes | Shiply

There’s loads of car transport firms with a weekly scheduled car transporter picking up and dropping off between mainland Europe and UK.

Or you could just drive it. UK from CH is only a day’s drive by car.

 

[Xinix]

You could also look if there's a place in the Netherlands. It's after Norway the country with the highest EV adoption in Europe and there's bound to be workshops that could help you out. Everybody speaks English.

 

[srichards]

James from Cleevely used to work for JLR. I'd contact Cleevely Mobile first and see if they have seen the issue before and whether a jaguar main dealer can be trusted to diagnose it properly. Getting the jag dealer to drop the motor and then send that to cleevely to repair might be another option. I'd wonder whether the vibration is something else entirely and that has to be ruled out.

Or a touring holiday in another car with the jag motor in the boot to Cheltenham and back....

You definitely need to find someone else to look at it and make sure it's definitely the motor and not something else.

I have no idea what consumer laws are like in Switzerland but the supplying dealer should really be the one getting some heat for selling a car without a full warranty if they were a full Jaguar franchise. If the car was also advertised with warranty and it's not actually the case due to late services again you might have power to go after the supplying dealer for the cost of repair. If the car was as described Jaguar would be picking up the bill.

 

[Peirpoint]

How do I get the car to the UK though and at what cost?

If you can find a UK garage who can 100% do the work then the cost to transport it on a truck is one way only.
The garage might be able to arrange or advise. But I allowed for a grand or two in my 5k complete guess.

There are transporter companies in UK I think a web site shiperly might be worth googling for.

Gaz

 

[NotAJagCustomerAnymore]

Seems that the consensus is mostly to go for the repair, albeit not through the official dealership?

The suspicion of the front motor being bad actually came from the garage where I had the tires re-balanced and the steering geometry checked (just a random workshop, not associated with Jaguar). Their chief mechanic took the car out for a test drive after they had checked the tires and the steering, and he suspected the motor being the culprit of the elevated noise levels and the vibrations.

Only afterwards did I go to the closest Jaguar dealership, where they suspected a tire being out of balance, then a bad wheel bearing (which they replaced but it didn't do anything) and finally after a thorough check according to them the only thing that was left was the motor. The mechanic I talked to said it could be something simple like a bearing inside the motor housing being a bit iffy, but he is not allowed to go service that. I also contacted another (non-Jaguar) garage but was told that they don't look at EVs at all and that I would need to go to an authorized dealership.

With regards to driving the car: At the Jaguar dealership I was told that yes I can still drive the car but no it probably won't last much longer without any repairs.

I already posted this question a bit further up, but maybe it got lost:

Does anyone understand the two month gap between the warranty start date and the registration date? As you can see, the previous owner had the car serviced (more or less) around May - which I guess to him made sense because he got the car in May - but according to Jaguar the warranty actually started in March and the car should have been serviced around March, not May.

 

[Rbrian]

Seems that the consensus is mostly to go for the repair, albeit not through the official dealership?

The suspicion of the front motor being bad actually came from the garage where I had the tires re-balanced and the steering geometry checked (just a random workshop, not associated with Jaguar). Their chief mechanic took the car out for a test drive after they had checked the tires and the steering, and he suspected the motor being the culprit of the elevated noise levels and the vibrations.

Only afterwards did I go to the closest Jaguar dealership, where they suspected a tire being out of balance, then a bad wheel bearing (which they replaced but it didn't do anything) and finally after a thorough check according to them the only thing that was left was the motor. The mechanic I talked to said it could be something simple like a bearing inside the motor housing being a bit iffy, but he is not allowed to go service that. I also contacted another (non-Jaguar) garage but was told that they don't look at EVs at all and that I would need to go to an authorized dealership.

With regards to driving the car: At the Jaguar dealership I was told that yes I can still drive the car but no it probably won't last much longer without any repairs.

I already posted this question a bit further up, but maybe it got lost:

View attachment 195507

Does anyone understand the two month gap between the warranty start date and the registration date? As you can see, the previous owner had the car serviced (more or less) around May - which I guess to him made sense because he got the car in May - but according to Jaguar the warranty actually started in March and the car should have been serviced around March, not May.

There are HEVRA garages in Europe, but the website seems to be broken. https://www.fixev.org/

Regarding the warranty date mismatch, it’s likely to have been a pre-registered car offered at a large discount - I have the same issue with my Smart #1, which has a warranty start date of November 2023, when it was registered by the dealer, even though I show as the first owner on the V5, and bought it in February this year. It was sold for £9,000 less than the list price - that’s a fair trade for losing 3 months of warranty cover! Of course, the Arnold Clark app reminds me when the service is due, so I’m unlikely to miss them, so the warranty should be in tact.

 

[Favguy]

I agree, and can confirm that the replacement drive unit will need to be coded to the car and that I think the only software tool that can do this is the Jaguar one. There may be some way to get this done, though, as drive units are readily available. This one's £500 but needs a new shaft seal: JAGUAR I PACE FRONT MOTOR DRIVE UNIT J9D3-75762-AM T4K18909 2018-2021 | eBay

View attachment 195495

I wonder if the need for coding can be circumvented by swapping out the control board from the original unit to the replacement?. If so, it would make the process much less painful. Any competent EV garage, or even an Electrical Engineer with mechanical servicing experience would have no trouble at all changing out the motor.

Assuming the motor itself is actually the problem of course, vibration doesn't sound much like a failure mode of an EV motor, outside of a bearing failure and bearings are standardised and quite cheap. As usual, the real issue is lack of knowledgeable and/or skilled personnel, main dealers are almost universally unhelpful on EV's with anything beyond basic servicing.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I wonder if the need for coding can be circumvented by swapping out the control board from the original unit to the replacement?. If so, it would make the process much less painful. Any competent EV garage, or even an Electrical Engineer with mechanical servicing experience would have no trouble at all changing out the motor.

I believe the issue is that there are motor sensor calibration constants for each motor drive unit and this is the reason that they need to be coded to the car. It may be that someone has come up with a way around needing to use the Jaguar tools to do this. JLR are very fond of coding parts in ways that stops them being swapped, though, it's a part of their strategy to try and reduce the very high level of theft that's plagued JLR for years. It's very profitable to steal JLR cars and break them for parts, and JLR have been gradually tightening up their built-in countermeasures to try and stop this.

 

[Favguy]

I believe the issue is that there are motor sensor calibration constants for each motor drive unit and this is the reason that they need to be coded to the car. It may be that someone has come up with a way around needing to use the Jaguar tools to do this. JLR are very fond of coding parts in ways that stops them being swapped, though, it's a part of their strategy to try and reduce the very high level of theft that's plagued JLR for years. It's very profitable to steal JLR cars and break them for parts, and JLR have been gradually tightening up their built-in countermeasures to try and stop this.

And there was cynical old me, thinking they were just trying to lock owners into exclusively using them for any and all servicing or repair needs at exorbitant costs!

 

[donald]

Recently my wife and I bought a second hand Jaguar I-Pace EV400. We were both eager to try out an electric car, but were of course worried about the battery going wrong. When we found out that Jaguar offers 8 years / 160’000 km of warranty on the battery, our minds were put at ease and we signed the contract. The car in question was barely five years old and had 77’000 km on the clock, with plenty of warranty remaining on the battery.

For several months we were quite happy with the car, until recently when it started to develop slight vibrations in the steering wheel at certain speeds. We took it to a nearby Jaguar dealership for inspection. The garage suspected that either a wheel was out of balance or one of the wheel bearings had gone bad. Both would have been comparatively cheap and easy fixes.

However, after a few days the dealership called us and informed us that one of the two electric motors was faulty and needed to be replaced. The projected repair cost was 26’000 USD, which was roughly 25% of the original sticker price or 75% of the car’s current value. Since the original three year warranty had already expired, it would be up to us to pay the repair in full.

Astonished by this very steep quotation, I inquired what the dealership was going to do to the car. The mechanic told me that Jaguar dealerships are not authorized to work on the electric motor. The whole motor would need to be removed, sent to Jaguar HQ, and a new motor would need to be bought from Jaguar and installed in the car. Cost of a new motor would be around 22’000 USD, with an additional 4000 USD in labor cost.

At this point I was also in contact with a Jaguar customer care representative via email, to whom I pointed out that an electric motor should not fail after only 82’000 km. Together with the dealership, I asked Jaguar to cover at least part of the repair cost as a goodwill gesture. Jaguar replied that the previous owner had missed the 12 month and 36 month services by a few months each, and therefore Jaguar refused any goodwill gesture.

Back at the dealership I asked what the dealership typically does to the electric motor of an EV when it services the car. To the surprise of probably absolutely nobody, electric motors don’t get serviced. At all. Avid readers might even remember that the Jaguar dealership already told us that it is not allowed to work on the electric motors in any way (except removing them from the car entirely).

Service, no service or late service, the electric motors would be in exactly the same condition. When I pointed this out to the Jaguar customer care representative, he stopped responding to my mails.

Do you think it was a good move by Jaguar to deny any goodwill on the grounds of delayed service intervals, even though the electric motors do not get serviced at all? And what would you do with the car now?

I offer nothing but a brutal situation report. With a little bit of sympathy at the end ...

BEVs are great when they don't go wrong and brutally expensive when they do. I get a lot of back-chat from people trying to assert this is no different to ICE ownership. I disagree.

I strongly recommend to never own a BEV without a warranty unless you can afford to scrap it and it owes you nothing already.

You have examined the situation in regards missed services. In the UK we have a motor ombudsman who has set precedent that if a missed service would NOT have picked up some later fault, nor related to it, then it is irrelevant and the vehicle manufacture needs to honour the warranty. That is the basic principle here.

However, in your case, it has moved on from that and it is about 'good will'. Jaguar are declining 'good will' because of late services. Their choice to do so, nothing that can be argued logically from there.

I always recommend early services for warranty purposes. It usually makes no difference at all to overall cost because if you do an annual service then your last service is at the end of the warranty.

e.g. 3 years warranty, 1st service in the last week of 1st year, 2nd last two weeks of 2nd yr, 3rd last month of 3rd year. = 3 services.

Or, 1st service after 9 months, 2nd after 18 months, 3rd after 24 months = 3 services.

This is particularly (more) true for leasing cars, because you might feel like taking the risk to not service the car at all after the 2nd year (your choice) but that's not an option if you are leasing.

Meanwhile, find yourself someone who will replace the drive unit. There will be someone. Don't abandon all hope. People have done more difficult jobs than that on BEVs before now.

I hope it is a brutal experience that concludes with satisfaction for you, rather than more brutality. Good luck.

 

[donald]

One further observation, you say bought 'recently'. Your country may (should?) have laws about merchantable quality and if you can later prove that the fault was latent at time of purchase (you might well be able to) then you would have a claim to recover your costs.

So, keep those costs reasonable (sounds like you have to) and keep the old unit untouched for now. Don't butcher it, and tell the repairer not to either, keep it sealed and complete.

Write to the vendor once the car is repaired, ask for your money back on that, or explain to them that you have the old unit to inspect to see if the cause was likely present when the vehicle sold.

They can then agree, agree in part, or refuse and you might then look for a professional engineer to inspect the part.

Reason to do it that way is that you can't fairly ask the vendor to refund the engineer's inspection cost to prove something the dealer might have already agreed on, but you can if they had previously refused to assist with the repair cost after the event.

Just a thought for you if money is an issue and you want to look at suing a case.

 

[Aleras]

Recently my wife and I bought a second hand Jaguar I-Pace EV400. We were both eager to try out an electric car, but were of course worried about the battery going wrong. When we found out that Jaguar offers 8 years / 160’000 km of warranty on the battery, our minds were put at ease and we signed the contract. The car in question was barely five years old and had 77’000 km on the clock, with plenty of warranty remaining on the battery.

For several months we were quite happy with the car, until recently when it started to develop slight vibrations in the steering wheel at certain speeds. We took it to a nearby Jaguar dealership for inspection. The garage suspected that either a wheel was out of balance or one of the wheel bearings had gone bad. Both would have been comparatively cheap and easy fixes.

However, after a few days the dealership called us and informed us that one of the two electric motors was faulty and needed to be replaced. The projected repair cost was 26’000 USD, which was roughly 25% of the original sticker price or 75% of the car’s current value. Since the original three year warranty had already expired, it would be up to us to pay the repair in full.

Astonished by this very steep quotation, I inquired what the dealership was going to do to the car. The mechanic told me that Jaguar dealerships are not authorized to work on the electric motor. The whole motor would need to be removed, sent to Jaguar HQ, and a new motor would need to be bought from Jaguar and installed in the car. Cost of a new motor would be around 22’000 USD, with an additional 4000 USD in labor cost.

At this point I was also in contact with a Jaguar customer care representative via email, to whom I pointed out that an electric motor should not fail after only 82’000 km. Together with the dealership, I asked Jaguar to cover at least part of the repair cost as a goodwill gesture. Jaguar replied that the previous owner had missed the 12 month and 36 month services by a few months each, and therefore Jaguar refused any goodwill gesture.

Back at the dealership I asked what the dealership typically does to the electric motor of an EV when it services the car. To the surprise of probably absolutely nobody, electric motors don’t get serviced. At all. Avid readers might even remember that the Jaguar dealership already told us that it is not allowed to work on the electric motors in any way (except removing them from the car entirely).

Service, no service or late service, the electric motors would be in exactly the same condition. When I pointed this out to the Jaguar customer care representative, he stopped responding to my mails.

Do you think it was a good move by Jaguar to deny any goodwill on the grounds of delayed service intervals, even though the electric motors do not get serviced at all? And what would you do with the car now?

Anyone in this situation is not going to be happy obviously.

No the motors shouldn't fail at that mileage. No Jag customer service is not great.

On the other side you didn't buy car from them new ands it's out of warranty so as with most manufacturers good will gesture very unlikely.

I like the Ipace good looking cars at auction I have seen low mile HSE 21 / 22 plate for circa £20k plus fees.

Reliability and Jag customer service puts me off. In your circumstances I would have sourced a drive unit from a write off and had an independent EV shop swap it out . Repairs bill would be a fraction of that quoted by Jaguar

On a side how are the motors / drive train not covered as with 8 years battery warranty. They are on Tesla and other than large drive units on early model S NEVER fail even with hundreds of K miles...

 

[Prof.X]

The main issue is repairability! Things brake and always will, but there should be a degree of fixability to it! I mean I doubt your motor is truly dead, but because it is a HV EV part it is like boogie Man and everyone is afraid to touch it! Have you tried to change the Motor oil?

 

[Aleras]

The main issue is repairability! Things brake and always will, but there should be a degree of fixability to it! I mean I doubt your motor is truly dead, but because it is a HV EV part it is like boogie Man and everyone is afraid to touch it! Have you tried to change the Motor oil?

Also extended warranty a must really.

I got three years three months aftermarket warranty when I bought model S. It wasn't that expensive offering some extra protection.

 

[Favguy]

Also extended warranty a must really.

I got three years three months aftermarket warranty when I bought model S. It wasn't that expensive offering some extra protection.

Personally I'm not convinced over most extended warranties. As an insurance product with a profit margin, cover is always going to be based on the average risk and cost of a likely claim then a fat profit margin added for the insurer. Any warranty including a proper level of battery and comprehensive major drive train component cover for instance is going to be very costly. So unless you're far more unlucky than average, over time, it's always better to not take out warranties. This assumes you have the financial ability to pay for any unexpected failures at the time they occur of course. House and car insurance aside, we insure/warranty nothing at all and just pay if/when needed. So far it's proved to be a very good decision.