Welcome.

I think there are a fair few who would prefer the reliability and simplicity of a simple, dumb, charge point!

In principle there is nothing to stop your dead chargemaster being replaced with a dumb charge point, as it's not a new installation. The snag is finding one, really, as there aren't readily available on the consumer market now, as they can only be used for commercial installations at workplaces and the like.

The main snag is that the wiring regs have changed and any charge point, whether smart or dumb, does now require additional circuit protection, principally a DC tolerant RCD plus some form of protection from an open PEN fault on the supply. This is built-in to new charge points, and off the top of my head I can't recall a dumb charge point that has this protection built in, other than, perhaps, the older version of the Zappi. There was one of these for sale here a few days ago, but I've just had a look and the advert no longer seems to be listed in the classified section, unfortunately.

You can disable all the smart stuff on most new charge points, though, so that might be an option. I'm not 100% sure as to how easy this is between the different makes and models; I'm sure some are easier to make brain dead than others. Perhaps those with experience of doing this might chip in to this thread.

There is no major problem with installation, if fitting a charge point with built-in protection, as you're not installing a new circuit, so legally even a competent DIY'er could swap the charge point over, as it's little harder than changing a mains outlet, really.

Edited to add:

I've found the Zappi that I saw for sale here a few days ago: https://www.speakev.com/threads/zappi-v2.189456/?post_id=3722574#post-3722574

 

Just get a smart podpoint, but don't connect to the wifi, surely?

 

If I could be certain that when I unpacked a new charger it would operate as a simple self-contained plug-and-charge unit, without even needing a swipe card, when first connected only to an approved power source, I would be a very happy bunny and buy it like a shot. Is this true for Pod Point? When I try to confirm that this is possible via the websites or by E-mail or telephone before I buy I find that all the information provided is, understandably, aimed at new installations where the aim seems to be to get you to sign up for an account with a 'service' and network, requiring unnecessary details such as VIN and payment details before you can even start using the device. Moreover, some T&Cs are quite unacceptable, for example requiring that any other users of the charger should also first register an account and that where there are regular multiple users the 'owner' should enter into a payment plan with the service provider! One service ?Pod Point has a condition that 'you cannot transfer your rights without our prior written permission', yet it does not tell you what your rights are! The 2021 Regulation 7 'Loss of communication network access' requires that 'A relevant charge point must be configured so that, in the event that it ceases to be connected to a communications network, it remains capable of charging an electric vehicle.' But is it so configured before delivery, or does it need the signing-up process to be completed before it can be so configured via an app?

I may sound a bit paranoid about this, but 15 years ago I bought five well-designed 'bedside internet radios' from a reputable UK manufacturer (they even held a Royal Warrant). Gradually I realised that these radios depended on regularly accessing a specific third-party website which acted as a directory storing the relevant access protocols. When that site made itself inaccessible the manufacturer was unwilling or, more likely, powerless to provide a software fix. So the radios became useless. I now use old mobile phones and loudspeakers for bedside internet radio here and abroad. Moral of the story: don't buy anything with embedded software from strangers not supported by the seller.

Also I confess that I sometimes imagine that cyberwarfare hackers might gradually or suddenly shut down all our smart chargers overnight.

 

How about one of these: Pardon our interruption...

 

Your concerns are quite reasonable and as a 70 year old I also share a concern about the necessity for cloud-based and app operation, more because I’ve worked in IT and have a low opinion of many modern equipment and automotive software engineers hackers.

In my case, I bought an intelligent Ohme Home Pro with a front panel display and buttons and as a starter, simply used the front panel controls and display to manually set up ‘dumb’ charge sessions (on its own it lets me defer charging for x hours and run at full charge rate for y hours, which is all I basically need most times). Yes, I did have to create an Ohme online account to commission the unit. But I could subsequently have disconnected it from the network. I wanted to know how to use it if the Ohme or Octopus servers went offline, or if I lost my broadband connection. Quite a lot of charge points don’t have any controls at all, so you can’t do anything like delay a charge session or set how long to charge for etc as I can with the Ohme Home Pro.

What I actually found is that the Ohme and its app is the most robust part of the whole infrastructure, compared to the EV (Stellantis are beyond hopeless) or the energy supplier (Octopus doesn’t have Peugeot integration anyway). But I know that if Ohme went into liquidation, or if my broadband went down, or my router blew up, or I lost my mobile phone, I’d at least be still able to program charge sessions reasonably easily using the front panel.

 

It's good to hear from another 'oldie' who has been involved with IT and who does not trust electronics. I worked for 26 years with BBC Engineering Research. After an unexplained collapse over 30 years ago I was diagnosed with HOCM and was told I was liable to die suddenly at any time unless I had an ICD (not an IED!) implant, which was claimed to be able to re-boot my heart, or I could have an op, but '15% die on the slab'. I declined both options and I am still here.

The good news is that I've just discovered the Vorsprung 'Titan' charger which offers 'Plug and Play' (sic). No talk of apps or linking to a network, yet they link to a certificate confirming that it complies with the current Regulation. I ordered (from their own website) one yesterday and it arrived this (Saturday) morning, within 24 hours of ordering. It carries a label with technical details including 'MODE: Plug&Charge'. The User Guide tells: Startup Mode: Plug and Charge.

So I'm hoping to get is going soon.

 

We install charge points, and have had a similar request from a, ahem, more mature customer. We fitted an EVEC unit, which is good value, and can also be easily put into dumb mode, simply by pressing a button on the underneath of the charger several times.

 

Contact Martin at evbitz.uk who repairs broken EVSEs. Basically he bins the broken junk & puts a nice dumb controller inside, with robust Contactor(s) & a reliable controller made by Viridian. You can see details of this bit at ecoharmony.co.uk.
Might be a whole lot cheaper than buying new. Here's a post showing a repair by him to a PodPoint, pre-dates the latest safety regs so would have a few extra bits now.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/pod...dpoint-3kw-evse-repair-using-viridian-controller-contactor.155327/post-2931421/

I rebuilt my ancient Rolec dumb EVSE with one of the Viridian units, and I specced their optional PEN-fault protection, also the DC 6mA protection. Martin would re-use your case & cables I expect, these should be ok.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/rol...upgraded-with-dc-leakage-protection-and-pen-loss-detection-safe-at-last.154968/

Incidentally I'm about to test a home-built add-on to my Viridian controller, to vary the charge current according to how much "free" electricity is availiable from my 4kW solar panels. Just need summer to come along! So Mine is "dumb", but I can right now set the charge current from my laptop from 6 to 32A in handy 1A steps, just need the sun to appear & I can select that as the "brains" instead.

 

It's not at all hard to build a simple charge point, TBH. Just needs some vary basic wiring ability. Both of our charge points are home built, both use the Viridian EPC module, a 32A DP contactor plus, as an added extra, a time switch to allow off-peak charging and a waterproof 3 position switch to allow the mode and charge current to be set. Total cost of these units was something like £180 each when I built them, some years ago (the parts are all still available though). I did have the advantage of being on a TT supply (so no open PEN fault concerns) plus I fitted a Type B RCD on each of the supplies, to provide the needed DC earth leakage protection. Here's a photo of one of ours (the one my wife uses for her Zoe, which is limited to 20A because it's run from the garage sub-main):

and a close up of what that three position switch does (taken after I'd changed the waterproof boot on the toggle switch):

 

Looks like they have found away around the smart charge point regulations, this EVSE is only compliant if used with the Monta app - at least that is how I read the stuff on the website. Interesting so setup then bin the app, not quite what the regulations expected....

Me I have a Zappi bought before the requirement to be online, so its never been connected to the WWW never been updated (so works as well as the day it was installed) Programmed via the front panel.

 

It is a smart charge point as far as the regs go. I had a look at it a while ago and it's a budget option (about £400 supply only) that seems to have all that's needed, open PEN fault protection (probably just voltage sensing) and 6mA DC tolerant RCD functionality. It has charge start dithering and everything else needed to comply. The major downside is that it's only got an IP55 rating, so I'd be very reluctant to put it in an exposed outdoor location, TBH. Fine in a garage or other sheltered location though.

 

My reading of the regulations - The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021
Is that there definitely needs to be some kind of user interface to turn on/off the peak time charging lockout.
Now that does not need to be an app, I believe my project EV can do it locally from any laptop with an ethernet port and a web browser, or some kind of interface display for reprogramming.

10.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a relevant charge point must be configured so that—

(a)it incorporates pre-set default charging hours which are outside of peak hours;

(b)when it is first used, the owner is given the opportunity to—

(i)accept the pre-set default charging hours;

(ii)remove the pre-set default charging hours; or

(iii)set different default charging hours;

(c)at any time after it is first used, the owner is able to—

(i)change or remove the default charging hours if these are in effect;

(ii)set default charging hours if none are in effect.

 

My reading of the regulations - The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021
Is that there definitely needs to be some kind of user interface to turn on/off the peak time charging lockout.
Now that does not need to be an app, I believe my project EV can do it locally from any laptop with an ethernet port and a web browser, or some kind of interface display for reprogramming.

10.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a relevant charge point must be configured so that—

(a)it incorporates pre-set default charging hours which are outside of peak hours;

(b)when it is first used, the owner is given the opportunity to—

(i)accept the pre-set default charging hours;

(ii)remove the pre-set default charging hours; or

(iii)set different default charging hours;

(c)at any time after it is first used, the owner is able to—

(i)change or remove the default charging hours if these are in effect;

(ii)set default charging hours if none are in effect.

I'm pretty sure that even the latest Zappi can be set to be a dumb charge point from the front panel. Certainly the first "smart" version could be easily set up like this. I think there is a very strong argument for providing an easy to use manual override on all smart charge points, so that if there is a connectivity problem, or just something like an owner not wanting to faff around with apps etc, they can still just charge their car.

By a quirk of fate, I've ended up sort of looking after a couple of dozen EV early adopters, only because they former a local sustainability group around 20 years ago, and I joined their group when I first started building this passive house, in 2013. Most of their founder members are a fair bit older than me, and a lot of them still have the Zoe's and Leafs they bought back then (plus an i-MiEV and an i3). Most still have their ancient Rolec charge points (grant funded I believe) that are now like trigger's broom (because I've repaired pretty much all of them over the years with new parts).

Although there are a handful of these "originals" that use mobile phones and embrace technology, at least half of them won't have anything to do with anything smart. For people like this there is very much a need to provide something that is easy to use and doesn't need them to invest in a bit of technology in order to make it work. I'm due to fit a replacement charge point for a couple that are in this group in the next week or so, as their son in law is buying them a "new to them" car, as they old one is very much on it's last legs. Their old Rolec is in a dire state, so I'm replacing it with a second-hand Zappi. My reason for picking the Zappi is mostly because it will work just fine just from the front panel buttons (plus they have an old FiT PV system so it will allow them some free charging as well).