[Truthmatters]

As a contribution to this discussion I saw an article about van drivers 3/4's of whom are prepared to go electric. I confess that it surprised me at first but thinking about it when your livelihood is tied to the costs of transport it can have a galvanising effect on any preconceived notions stoked by so called "journalists" looking for clicks. I don't know what the penetration of full BEV is in the Taxi game, my Cousin is married to a Taxi driver and he has just bought a Tesla and I see many taxi's that are going full BEV too, but I suspect it is rapidly growing even if for only those purely economic reasons.

This trend is interesting to me because I'm a great believer in word of mouth as the great driver, and conversations down the Pub are some of the best. Now I know Pub's are dying on their arse but they are still gathering places where conversation often turns to "cars" etc. If you have Taxi drivers and van drivers extolling the virtues of EV's that to me is an interesting turn of events.

 

[KenB]

So one can buy a 1.5L Golf for c £24.5K or a ID3 for the same/fractionally less.
The ID3 accelerates nearly 20% faster and has 50% more power and Torque.
The running costs of the ID3 are a fraction of the Golf.

And the Golf is manual, hard work,noisy, polluting !!!!

I am amazed that anyone is saying a ICE is better than a EV and on a EV forum of all places.

 

[Mark I]

As a contribution to this discussion I saw an article about van drivers 3/4's of whom are prepared to go electric. I confess that it surprised me at first but thinking about it when your livelihood is tied to the costs of transport it can have a galvanising effect on any preconceived notions stoked by so called "journalists" looking for clicks. I don't know what the penetration of full BEV is in the Taxi game, my Cousin is married to a Taxi driver and he has just bought a Tesla and I see many taxi's that are going full BEV too, but I suspect it is rapidly growing even if for only those purely economic reasons.

This trend is interesting to me because I'm a great believer in word of mouth as the great driver, and conversations down the Pub are some of the best. Now I know Pub's are dying on their arse but they are still gathering places where conversation often turns to "cars" etc. If you have Taxi drivers and van drivers extolling the virtues of EV's that to me is an interesting turn of events.

As a driver of a car variant of a small BEV van, I'm not surprised. Considered as a car, my e-NV200 is entirely acceptable, not exciting, far from outstanding. But by the standards of a van, it is by a good margin the nicest I've ever driven. As an old design with a short range, it has its drawbacks and newer products are no doubt better, but if my business or employer were paying for it and the work fitted the charging opportunities, I'd be choosing an electric van far ahead of any diseasel.

 

[Charlie S]

I just watched a YouTube video - from a guy with a climate science and policy masters degree - and he makes the same point about a guy down the pub in this video.

Climate Town videos are absolutely amazing!

 

[donald]

Modern diesel engines are insanely good, smooth, powerful and crazy efficient and i think they could be developed even further .

It's true. The power performance per stroke of the latest generation is astonishing. On the straight and level, my 1.6 Passat engine would idle in 6th gear and drag the car along at 38mph at just under 1000 revs. It is as quiet as a BEV like that (and quieter than a Zoe). How the hell that is even possible, I struggle to believe.

That is all done whilst meeting Euro 6 without the need for ad blu (mine was not one of the 'cheat' class of engines).

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Modern diesel engines are insanely good, smooth, powerful and crazy efficient and i think they could be developed even further .

But what would be the point of developing a better diesel? They will still be less efficient, less flexible, more complex, more polluting, etc compared to an electric motor. And new better diesel is still unlikely to meet future emissions standards in a cost effective manner.
Diesel technology is obsolete, money spent developing it would come to fruition perhaps a decade from now. What would be the point in building even a 40% efficient diesel when electric motors are already in an efficiency range diesel can never reach.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Approaching saturation…

EVs At A Record 98.4% Share In Norway — KGM Musso Arrives - CleanTechnica

August saw plugin EVs at a record 98.4% share in Norway, up from 95.7% year on year. BEVs alone took 96.9% share.

cleantechnica.com

 

[donald]

But what would be the point of developing a better diesel?

So they can run off plant oils, straight out of the field?

'Solar powered diesel'.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

So they can run off plant oils, straight out of the field?

'Solar powered diesel'.

Less efficient, more polluting and more expensive than running a Bev from solar or wind in the same field.

 

[donald]

Less efficient, more polluting and more expensive than running a Bev from solar or wind in the same field.

Are you so sure?

Do the arithmetic. Show me how much it costs to store solar electricity (generated at 10% efficiency) for a year.

Here is storage of 10MWh of oil;-

Cost = £200.


Now picture 200 x 50kWh car batteries.

Cost = >£200,000.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Are you so sure?

Do the arithmetic. Show me how much it costs to store solar electricity (generated at 10% efficiency) for a year.

Here is storage of 10MWh of oil;-
View attachment 216143
Cost = £200.


Now picture 200 x 50kWh car batteries.

Cost = >£200,000.

Nice try. Nothing to do with storage. It’s about how much useful energy services you get from a unit area of land.

 

[donald]

Nice try. Nothing to do with storage. It’s about how much useful energy services you get from a unit area of land.

Everything to do with storage.

How can you use summer time solar generation in winter?

 

[Truthmatters]

But what would be the point of developing a better diesel? They will still be less efficient, less flexible, more complex, more polluting, etc compared to an electric motor. And new better diesel is still unlikely to meet future emissions standards in a cost effective manner.
Diesel technology is obsolete, money spent developing it would come to fruition perhaps a decade from now. What would be the point in building even a 40% efficient diesel when electric motors are already in an efficiency range diesel can never reach.

A Caterpillar with wings is not a Butterfly.

 

[colinstone]

The CO2 overhead of building a BEV is way more than an ICE, as BBC Sliced Bread explained a couple of years ago.

 

[CasperStorm]

Agrivoltaics anyone?

 

[donald]

A Caterpillar with wings is not a Butterfly.

Nor is a caterpillar with a lithium ion battery stuffed up its a**.

BEVs are no panacea. They also pollute. I don't know why people want to whitewash that reality.

 

[Rbrian]

The CO2 overhead of building a BEV is way more than an ICE, as BBC Sliced Bread explained a couple of years ago.

True, but it even on a coal powered grid it will still emit less carbon, including manufacturing, within a few years. Less than that on a cleaner grid. And it isn’t all about co2 - also particulates, which are less damaging outside of a city. Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah: Air pollution a factor in girl's death, inquest finds

 

[Truthmatters]

Nor is a caterpillar with a lithium ion battery stuffed up its a**.

How many miles per kWh do they get?

 

[EggyBread]

So one can buy a 1.5L Golf for c £24.5K or a ID3 for the same/fractionally less.
The ID3 accelerates nearly 20% faster and has 50% more power and Torque.
The running costs of the ID3 are a fraction of the Golf.

And the Golf is manual, hard work,noisy, polluting !!!!

I am amazed that anyone is saying a ICE is better than a EV and on a EV forum of all places.

ID3 can't take roof bars so not a valid comparison, lol!

 

[EggyBread]

Yeah, our old £20 VED Golf diesel seems to be going up in value too. Although, it's been replaced with a nearly new car [wife's] it's being kept in the family. In fact just come out the home made spray booth, lol! After having cars since 17 I've opted out of car ownership with the sale of the Leaf last year. No plans to ever get another.