[simcity]

Why would anyone steal an EV? They are worthless second hand because nobody wants them.

1) They are only any good for short trips around town.
2) The battery only lasts 3 years
3) The tyres produce so much particulates they are worse for the environment than diesel
4) They catch fire all the time
5) They use loads of rare materials that are exclusively mined by children in poor countries
6) They are so heavy they destroy roads
7) They are all about control
8) They are uninsurable because of reason 4
9) The national grid can’t cope
10) They run on coal so aren’t clean anyway
11) Hydrogen is the real future. Toyota…
12) China
13) They are too expensive (ignore the worthless second hand part)
14) They kidnap people
15) They cause car parks to collapse
16) They also cause car parks to collapse due to fires
17) They are the cause of WW3

I’m not sure about 17 but if it happens then there will no doubt be some sort of connection so didn’t want to miss that one!

I thought I just stumbled into a brainstorm session at the Daily Fail. 😎🤣

 

[simcity]

Perhaps if manufacturers stopped the stupid keyless entry systems, there wouldn't be so many thefts. How hard is it to get a fob from your pocket and press a button for goodness sake.

They’ve been fitting motion sensors into keyfobs so that the keys are “silent” from an RF perspective once they’re set down. On another forum we tried a little experiment and found the fobs on our cars went to sleep in under a minute.

 

[4EV-ER]

I wonder if it's the used parts sales market that attracts them. You can make thousands selling batteries / cells to used market. Leafs and Zoe's have a large use base with demand for replacements. Model S batteries are the most repairable and been around longer so more demand for repair parts.

 

[Cheshirecat]

Why would anyone steal an EV? They are worthless second hand because nobody wants them.

1) They are only any good for short trips around town.
2) The battery only lasts 3 years
3) The tyres produce so much particulates they are worse for the environment than diesel
4) They catch fire all the time
5) They use loads of rare materials that are exclusively mined by children in poor countries
6) They are so heavy they destroy roads
7) They are all about control
8) They are uninsurable because of reason 4
9) The national grid can’t cope
10) They run on coal so aren’t clean anyway
11) Hydrogen is the real future. Toyota…
12) China
13) They are too expensive (ignore the worthless second hand part)
14) They kidnap people
15) They cause car parks to collapse
16) They also cause car parks to collapse due to fires
17) They are the cause of WW3

I’m not sure about 17 but if it happens then there will no doubt be some sort of connection so didn’t want to miss that one!

Thanks for that
Was thinking of getting one….not now 👍

 

[Contented Cat]

Sadly, it is not a FUD. Exactly the same happened to mine and our insurance company said that they have seen a lot of them stolen this year. They don't tend to be recovered and they believe a lot of them are simply taken apart for parts as they are so expensive and hard to find. They already have a massive lawsuit in the US on their hands... check the news. All related to the lack of security. I think the insurance for these cars is going to rocket so they won't be worth buying

 

[WithEthyl]

Perhaps if manufacturers stopped the stupid keyless entry systems, there wouldn't be so many thefts. How hard is it to get a fob from your pocket and press a button for goodness sake.

At the very least, there should be the option on all cars to switch off the keyless entry and use it as a regular push button fob. I did that with mine, I don't see the point of a trivial, negligible labour saving in avoiding pushing a button if it means having to faff about keeping keys in Faraday pouches or worrying about their proximity to the door, or side of the house. What concerns me is when I change cars, it doesn't look like all models give you that option.

They’ve been fitting motion sensors into keyfobs so that the keys are “silent” from an RF perspective once they’re set down. On another forum we tried a little experiment and found the fobs on our cars went to sleep in under a minute.

And that's find if you are buying a brand new car today, but it doesn't fix the issue with the hundreds of thousands, probably millions, of existing cars which still have that vulnerability. The car manufacturers are not going back, replacing or upgrading existing key fobs to fix the vulnerabilities in the cars they sold over previous years, they leave the owners to deal with the issue.

 

[Contented Cat]

Haha - and I've just come across this article, another vote of confidence in Ionic 5! I wonder how this investigation concludes... US opens safety probe into Hyundai Ioniq 5 EVs over power loss reports

 

[simcity]

And that's find if you are buying a brand new car today, but it doesn't fix the issue with the hundreds of thousands, probably millions, of existing cars which still have that vulnerability. The car manufacturers are not going back, replacing or upgrading existing key fobs to fix the vulnerabilities in the cars they sold over previous years, they leave the owners to deal with the issue.

It is what it is for existing cars. Always has been, always will be. If you want better security (or inherent flaws removed) then there’s no option but to buy a newer model that hopefully doesn’t have those issues. I’ve never in the history of autos heard of a manufacturer retrofitting better security to its existing fleet - have you?

 

[simcity]

Sadly, it is not a FUD. Exactly the same happened to mine and our insurance company said that they have seen a lot of them stolen this year. They don't tend to be recovered and they believe a lot of them are simply taken apart for parts as they are so expensive and hard to find. They already have a massive lawsuit in the US on their hands... check the news. All related to the lack of security. I think the insurance for these cars is going to rocket so they won't be worth buying

Sorry to hear that. What’s the vulnerability they exploited?

 

[Contented Cat]

There are software updates happening all the time. This is something that should be potentially addressed as a software solution, not a physical solution. They could have done it ages ago. The fact there is still no comment from them or action speaks volumes. Customer comes last

 

[simcity]

There are software updates happening all the time. This is something that should be potentially addressed as a software solution, not a physical solution. They could have done it ages ago. The fact there is still no comment from them or action speaks volumes. Customer comes last

So this is an account / bluelink exploit?

 

[Cheshirecat]

@Contented Cat Welcome to the forum by the way

 

[LostMyIoniq]

Hi All, I am the 'not so' lucky owner who lost their car in the article. I only wish it was FUD but sadly a real theft of a real car and a family whose life got a bit more challenging because of it. The keys were stationary for days and so if they do go to sleep you can be clear it is not a relay theft. The fact it was cloned seems unlikely. It would have had to happen many days before we travelled and I believe the keys rotate codes so how would an old code played back open the vehicle? They go up to the car and touch the handle and it opens. Ruling out relay it seems they must have something that mimics the key, a digital clone seems likely, and if so how do they get it? Surely the telemetry data at Hyundai would offer some explanation, which I am sure they must collect, but none of this was offered up as part of the explanation. If they have it and its helpful then it remains a secret. I would urge you all to fit some form of security that stops the car being driven even with the key (ghost etc, crooklock) as you probably need to operate on the assumption someone has your key. Mine went 3 days after a neighbours suffered the same fate, all went to the same location so it is clear this is organised. I am now aware of many owners who are in the same boat so although no one is warning you from any authoritative source, be careful, its a lot of car to lose so easily.

 

[simcity]

Really sorry to hear that @LostMyIoniq

Are you absolutely certain that your keyfob(s) do actually go to sleep / stop transmitting. If they don’t then there is always the possibility this was targeted relay theft.

If the keys do go silent then, cloning keys is generally not something trivial or simple to accomplish without physically having the keys.

The other possibility is that there was an exploit on your actual account / Bluelink functionality. If that’s the case then Hyundai won’t be shouting about it from the rooftops and they will be quietly patching things. Though it could constitute a far more serious fleetwide risk. This is how Tesla got caught out a few years ago. Luckily David Colombo was a white hat kind guy instead of a serial car thief entrepreneur

 

[LostMyIoniq]

Really sorry to hear that @LostMyIoniq

Are you absolutely certain that your keyfob(s) do actually go to sleep / stop transmitting. If they don’t then there is always the possibility this was targeted relay theft.

If the keys do go silent then, cloning keys is generally not something trivial or simple to accomplish without physically having the keys.

The other possibility is that there was an exploit on your actual account / Bluelink functionality. If that’s the case then Hyundai won’t be shouting about it from the rooftops and they will be quietly patching things. Though it could constitute a far more serious fleetwide risk. This is how Tesla got caught out a few years ago. Luckily David Colombo was a white hat kind guy instead of a serial car thief entrepreneur

I have not idea what it was and if the keys go to sleep as documentation on that is scant so this is all theory although online people testify to the car not opening if the keys are not moved. You could test it yourself. The company with the facts is keeping mum.

 

[Leafocaster]

I remember reading about car thefts they linked to a car service garage, a dodgy employee was cloning the fobs and selling the information on. Greed caught up with him as it was too obvious how the key fobs were being cloned.

 

[Padrino]

I remember reading about car thefts they linked to a car service garage, a dodgy employee was cloning the fobs and selling the information on. Greed caught up with him as it was too obvious how the key fobs were being cloned.

Or perhaps you have watched "Gone in 60 seconds" to many times? The Mercedes employee was the one ordering keys for them 😂😂😂

 

[simcity]

I remember reading about car thefts they linked to a car service garage, a dodgy employee was cloning the fobs and selling the information on. Greed caught up with him as it was too obvious how the key fobs were being cloned.

Indeed. If you've physically got hold of the original key you can clone it without too much bother, as it's simply programming a blank key after all.

 

[WithEthyl]

It is what it is for existing cars. Always has been, always will be. If you want better security (or inherent flaws removed) then there’s no option but to buy a newer model that hopefully doesn’t have those issues. I’ve never in the history of autos heard of a manufacturer retrofitting better security to its existing fleet - have you?

It isn't the 1980s or 1990s when electronic systems where physically fixed at the point of manufacture, today most of these systems are running firmware which can be updated to address any weaknesses. At the very least, updated to ensure any bugs and vulnerabilities are fixed and to include the option for owners to disable keyless functionality which introduces vulnerabilities.

 

[simcity]

It isn't the 1980s or 1990s when electronic systems where physically fixed at the point of manufacture, today most of these systems are running firmware which can be updated to address any weaknesses. At the very least, updated to ensure any bugs and vulnerabilities are fixed and to include the option for owners to disable keyless functionality which introduces vulnerabilities.

Sure but not everything is designed with over the air or even fixed firmware upgrades in mind. I am thinking more along the lines of physical key fobs for instance rather than ECUs in the vehicle. Some of these improvements may require new hardware or chipsets.

Of course allowing the user to switch something off completely, should be possible, but then not having the function in the first place would also be a remedy. 🤷‍♂️