You're describing a problem with running not-new German luxo 4x4s, not an EV problem. If Toyota made an EV Landcruiser, you'd probably be fine. Dull, but reliable.

They don't, so you have a dilemma. Although Tesla have a decent reliability record?

My EV experience (aging Leaf) has been trouble free. ICE ML and X5? Not so much...

 

Mt etron 50 has just got to 3 years - bought the extended warranty. First time I've ever done that, but wouldn't run an expensive car without this.
No issues to date! Now I've jinxed it.

edit - audi 'plus' warrenty is about £300 a year with a £250 excess, so I think an acceptable premium.

 

First, what video?

Second, my feeling is that if it had an ICE Audi the problems could have been that same. Modern cars feel a lot less reliable.

Third, nobody “needs” a large quality 4x4 SUV.

 

I've edited and took the first bit out. Earlier in the day I was replying to a different thread that Donald posted, I never actually posted it and decided not to and instead create this thread.

There must must be a Cache glitch with the app/my phone as I didn't write the first bit in this thread.

I didn't check the thread after I hit post as started watching TV and then fell asleep lol.

I want and need* a lux 4x4 motor as that's what I've always had as our main family car, it needs to be capable of occasionally safety towing a heavyish horse and box and other Toys around on beaches etc.

*It's a vehicle I spend most of my driving in, so I want something quality. I've had Merc MLs and BMX X5s so that's what I like and I'm not dropping my expectations for EV. If there is nothing suitable that's EV then maybe EV isn't for me for that vehicle.

Ultimately it touches on a point that there's a shed load of lux ICE 4x4s I could choose but obviously a more limited EV choice. I guess over time that will change.

 

People mentioning Musk whilst thinking about a Tesla is a bit baffling. If you base car buying decisions on the perceived morality of the company or political leanings of a CEO you'll quickly run out of options!

 

Not true at all, there is no hint of “perceived morality” about Musk. Most other car company CEOs aren’t openly nazi and racist and inciting racial violence in the UK.

I will not judge Tesla owners, or those like the OP who acknowledge Musk is a prick but will still consider a Tesla. But I will raise an eyebrow at the incredibly questionable morality of people who try to hand wave away Musk as “just another CEO”.

 

My previous EVs were an E-Tron then an I-Pace on lease. JLR were asking £1200 for one single year warranty extension, so I rejected the offer to purchase the I-Pace and got a used Cupra Born 77kWh. In the long run the Born will be cheaper to maintain and get warranty extensions.

If an expensive to repair luxury EV is a concern there’s nothing at all stopping you getting the E-Tron and buying an extended warranty for a few years. It would still be a lot cheaper than buying a used one from a dealership. Or as @MrPaulus states and my own experience shows, nobody needs an expensive to maintain luxury SUV.

 

Good point on the extended warranty. I'm fairly gutted at the moment as the e-tron seemed to tick all the boxes. Like I said the other failures I've encountered could happen with any car, but the drive gearbox thingymajig should never have failed in a car under 5 years old and 50k miles. Maybe I've just had an e-tron that was built on a Friday afternoon.

I still can't get my head past as soon as the car gets to 100k or 8 years old, then ant major batt or motor issue will mean it's worthless. Most manufacturers extended warranties don't cover that, maybe I need to do some more research.

I've ran and still for a few ICE cars, all 20 plus years old and all over 100k miles.

There's literally nothing that could go wrong that could not be fixed and not render the car effectively written off. Even if you ceased an engine if could be addressed for a few thousand.

 

Problems with cars is not specific to EVs.

Don't assume you'll get an ICE and it'll be plain sailing, you can find hundreds of posts in Pistonheads for example of people telling of their woes with an ICE brand, never to go with it again. Moving to another and experiencing different expensive issues.

Its the luck of the draw and why second hand cars aren't the same price as new.

You pay less you take on more risk as it ages. Most of the time people are fine.

 

Yeah I get that, but I could get an ICE for many times less than of the price of an EV, I could buy an older ICE, there are no older EVs that tick the boxes obviously. In 5 years time it would be a different story, but as it stands now it doesn't help my immediate situation.

If I didn't need a biggish 4x4 SUV EV and we were talking about a 2 wheel drive BMW 3 series size of car then I've got massive EV choice and its not an issue.

 

I think you've led a sheltered life where ice cars don't break with catastrophic failures. And I'm talking most but not all manufacturers.
I've been a mechanic for 46 years and most people not in the trade don't see the recurring engine/ gearbox disasters from not only the run of the mill fords/ Vauxhall's etc but the ill perceived higher quality BMW/ VW group ( Audi) / Mercedes offerings.

 

I think you've led a sheltered life where ice cars don't break with catastrophic failures. And I'm talking most but not all manufacturers.
I've been a mechanic for 46 years and most people not in the trade don't see the recurring engine/ gearbox disasters from not only the run of the mill fords/ Vauxhall's etc but the ill perceived higher quality BMW/ VW group ( Audi) / Mercedes offerings.

Yes, there are plenty of ‘when not if’ failures waiting for a whole range of ICE engines and gearboxes that result in them munching themselves in a rather terminal way…
Unfortunately most don’t have 8 year+ warranties either.

 

When were cars reliable and cheap to run?

Cars are a lifestyle choice that will cost a big chunk of money and getting them repaired when garages charge over £2 a minute for a trained technician to unplug and put in a new unit that is billed at more than a mobile phone but cost pence to make isnt a sensible purchase.

if you think you can get a car to run for ten years and 100,000 miles without breaking down and spending more on fuel, servicing and repairs than the initial purchase price you need a reality check.

 

In 1996 my Nova SR, never went wrong and would cost about £20 to fill up.

I bought a 5 year old BMW 330CI M Sport for 10K in 2007, it had 54,000 miles on it. I converted it to LPG when it got to 100,000 miles and I had to go to Oxford Uni every day from Telford.

The car is currently semi-retired and has been sitting on my friends drive since 2021 (always thought one day I'll track it or fully restore it with my son as a project).

It made it to 298,000 miles at the point I retired it. I only retired it as mechanically fine but it was starting to rust a bit at the back and the Mrs was chewing my ear having an old car. Also decided as started working from home I would use my Merc instead of the weekend toy.

The BMW 330CI is still on its original clutch (don't ask me how or why I have no idea how it still worked). The rear exhaust made it to 250,000 miles before it started to blow and I needed to replace it.

I refreshed the suspension on it around the same mileage.

Apart from the exhaust, and some suspension components being replaced it only ever needed a new radiator expansion tank, ABS speed sensors, Brake discs and pads and a new Cam Chain tensioner.

Maybe I should, get the bodywork sorted and see how far/long it can go before something goes majorly wrong.

 

I’ve had an extended loan of an iPace, 4 years with an eTron 55, 3 years with an i4, now in an EV6. Plenty of ICE cars, mostly Mercedes/ Audi / BMW, before that. The problem is Audi, not EVs. My eTron was hopelessly unreliable and I will never own another Audi. Lovely car, if predictably inefficient, but the number of faults and the appalling service support have put me off the brand for life.

 

I hear what you're saying about the Audi service, its mote like self-service.

Weirdly just hung up the phone to them trying to get an update about mine that's been with them since last wed. As ever nobody answering the phone (I shouldn't actually have to call them as they were meant to call me yesterday with an update).

My local Audi in Shrewsbury are just too small for the number of customers they have. I can't blame the guys/girls that work there as they are doing their best but ultimately, it's not a good experience for end users/owners.

Over the years I've normally delt with BMW and Mercedes in Shrewsbury, totally different experience. Whilst the Merc dealership is massive in comparison to Audi, the BMW dealer is about the same as Audi yet customer service is way better (maybe less customers so more time who knows lol).

I was fairly sure I was going to get a e-tron 55 next, I'm defo staying away unless I can buy my current one at a really keen price and ill suck up the service experience.

 

Over 26 years of car ownership I had 2 out of the 11 (4 of them EVs) cars I have owned that had catastrophic engine or gearbox issues. Both were petrol cars, one had about 55,000 and the other about 90,000 miles on them. I just put both failures down to luck of the draw.

The brand I have sworn off is Nissan. I had a terrible Qashqai that had a catalogue of 14 faults from minor to major in the 15 months I owned it. Only 1 of them (AC re gassed) was ever fixed and that was temporary. When the AC failed again and Nissan said it was stone damage and was not covered under warranty, I just sold it. I was never as happy to take a £10,000 loss selling something on in my life.

 

A couple of my friends has just had to write off a 6 year old petrol Qashqai after an engine failure that would be more than current value to fix.

 

What are the options for battery/motor warranties beyond the 8yr/100k miles I wonder. We bought a 3 year old ID4 with 60k on it, it essentially had 5 years warranty, after that point we will or baby take our chances or trade it in but I'd be happy to keep it if the risk/cost of failure was manageable. I also figured that 5 years is a long time and reconditioned motors/battery cells may be far more commonplace by then, but I haven't really looked into it.

 

If you want a reliable car then buy one from a manufacturer with a strong reputation and record for high reliability - Toyota, Lexus, Honda.

I don't understand your proposed list of models, you indicate you want a highly reliable SUV but then list a load of premium 'show pony' type vehicles rather than reliable workhorses - if I wanted a reliable SUV type vehicle to last me the next 10 years I'd be looking at the BZ4x or the RAV4 PHEV, or something from Lexus. I'd also read up on what the reliability of the Honda eNy1 is like - is it a true Honda, with Honda engineering and reliability or a re-badged Chinese model, where reliability might not be so strong.

 

Model Y is one of the most reliable EVs out there. Something like 0.5 failures per 1000 cars.

Towing capacity is also 1600kg.

Tesla Model Y - Towing Capacity & Weight Limit Information

Tesla Model Y Towing Capacity - Quickly search for the correct Tesla Model Y model and year to find the braked and unbraked towing capacity for your vehicle.

www.towingcapacity.co.uk

 

I had an EQC and now have an EQE, both were reliable but the EQE has had some silly niggling problems with not loading OTA but nothing that has stopped the car at any point also I do not believe American build quality is as good as German (I know it should be in a factory designed with all the same techniques etc) as I had 2 door handles fail and a piece of windscreen trim fall off…shoddy.
The EQC was faultless over 30k but I am not sure it is the car for you, range was no issue for me but it is not the best out there, and charging is limited to 11kw max AC and 110kw max DC. Towing limited is 1800kg BUT a lot of the cars in the UK market were hanging around during the COVID hiatus and there seems to be some issues with the batteries having suffered (it is an 8yr 150km I think warranty) have a look at MBEQ forum there are a few disgruntled owners there.
The EQE is also only 1800kg towing but some are 22kw Ac and max charge is 170kw DC. I love my car best car I have ever owned. Later models (mine is 23) seem to cope with the OTA better. Not as many issues popping up apart from the software oddities yet as with the EQC (but the EQC is an older car). If you could track one down it could be worth a punt and the battery warranty has been extended to 10 yrs cannot recall the mileage.
It is a shame that you need to change now as I think the new GLC EQ will be an excellent car and has the potential to be the best in it’s class Though it too will have a gearbox this time (neither the EQC or EQE do so that cannot fail at least😉). it will not be available until next year and as ever it is often wise to let the first builds go through the system…..my error with my EQE I think.
Overall I still think the EQ range were pretty well sorted when they came to market but all cars are complex these days and many of the software issues for example that affect mine no doubt affect ICE too as they were not drive related but rather either ancillary (ambient lighting) or the dreaded OTA.
Get why people recommend the Model Y but to me it is an incredibly ugly car and not at all sure it would match the ride comfort of any of the big German 3 which is why so many of us do not even consider Tesla (and that is before we think about any other criteria like who we want to spend our money with!).
So wanting a comfortable SUV to enable a more active lifestyle there is not a great deal of choice sadly.

 

As you know was thinking about going EQC 400 next, I'm wondering if I should maybe hold out for a couple a of years and pick up a EQE SUV when the prices are lower.

I hear you on the Model Y, I don't like the looks and I know it just won't feel as solid as a German equivalent.

The BMW IX looks (front grill) are starting to warm on me and I know they are meant to be deemed reliable.

I don't know maybe I should bite the bullet and see if I can just buy the e-tron from the lease company for the right money (i mean a lot of it has been replaced now so it's almost a new car lol), if it doesn't go pop or cost anything extensive for 2-3 years then really i've had my monies worth vs leasing costs.

 

Buys unreliable German tat, complains when it breaks down….. 😂

Maxis eTerron9 does what you want, buy one at 2yrs old and it’ll be £25k because it’s overpriced and Chinese, and most brits want some sort of German wankpanzerwagen

 

What a load of utter twaddle.

 

Don't know what your budget is, but have you looked at the BM iX, 2nd hand similar prices to an X5, same with the iX1 (similar prices to it's ICE models).

 

You seem to be one of the few people for whom a phev would actually make sense.

 

Just to clarify my comments, I worked at Listers Audi for a while( now at ford) ,my nextdoor neighbour is mechanic at our local Merc dealer, and neighbour 4 doors down is mechanic at BMW dealer. Quite unusual for a road of 35 houses I guess. So we know about each others brand issues.

 

My friend bought one of the first Ford Mustang 5.0 litre V8 Mach 1's in the country when they first came out. Bright Red, Black Racing stripes the whole deal.

When he first had it day 1, he came out of Morrisons to see two police officers in the carpark, Police car park parked next to it and them peering through the windows.

He gingerly approached the car asked if everything was ok, they said yeah we're just admiring the car as they haven't seen on before. When they realised it was his car they asked if they could sit in it and take picture lol.

Anyway my friend doesn't really do a lot of mileage and to be honest I'm not sure why he even bought the car as he's not a massive petrol head, works from home and only really goes to the pub via taxis's.

After about 1 year and 3000 miles the car started making some really bad engine noises, he took it into Ford, they got some engine guy from London over as were obviously fairly concerned by what they thought/heard. After much time without out the car and Ford fairly upset by it all, they replaced the entire engine.

I'm not entirely sure what the actual failure was and they seemed to not really want to give my friend explicit details.

 

Drive train: ICE 2,000 moving parts. EV 20 moving parts. Which has the most points of failure? Modern cars appear to suffer most with software issues which affects both. Whether you get a good one or bad one seems to be a matter of luck especially in the used market as you have no idea how the car was treated by previous owners. EV car ranges are on the increase while ICE decreases which dictates where all the manufacturer investment goes, so hopefully a nice new EV SUV will come along for you soon.

 

Yeah fully get that, the only thing is, it's all fine and dandy if you are buying something new or well under 8 years old/100k miles as if they motors or batts have an issue no drama warranty time. If you're outside of those parameters and your EV has an issue with the Batts/Motor, its bye bye time for the vehicle.

Example I could buy a 2021/23 e-tron or Merc EQC 400 for £20-25k with 50k miles on it. In 3 years i will have done just over 100k miles. If the batt/Motor goes pop im facing a massive bill/write-off.

Whilst the car seems good value at £20-25k vs the £70-80k+ when new, as soon as it gets to 100k miles or 8 years old, who would really want to buy it, the market price will plummet.

If an ICE car has an issue with its engine, its normally one/a few of the 2000+ parts that's failed, those can be fixed, parts can be sourced and garage labour rates can be chosen from the countless places. Yes it could still cost some dosh. I had to have the valve guides all replaced on my BMW 4.6i.s X5, the parts costs £300 the labour was £1800. At the same time I had them replace a load of other components as they cars engine and everything Infront of it was basically stripped back so made sense.

When an EV motor fails it's like whole new Motor time and you're at the mercy of the manufacturer on the cost of the component and their obvious mega labour rates.

If the batt goes, same story.

Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing EVs, as I've said I've been converted from ICE to EVs and I was a massive petrol head. We've currently got two EVs the e-tron and the ID.3.

I really want to continue with EVs but I also don't want to lose a shed load of money if something goes wrong. There's no way I would burn a guaranteed shed load of money/depreciation buying a new German SUV just to have a failure peace of mind.

Maybe for now the answer is to just do another re-release for a few more years, at least if the car goes wrong its covered.

I do love EVs, I've just always owned my cars and possibly at the moment for what I want it's a bit early with what's available in the used market.

 

Both the EV9 and Ioniq9 have large towing capacity, decent range, and fast charging.
They are big though.

Not sure if the Lucid Gravity will be on any good lease deals, but it might also be a contender.

The french brands i don't think will meet the towing needs, but I'm not 100% on those capacities.
And then you could always go Chinese. Zeekr X7 would be a possibility then. But there are a lot of ev's to choose from

 

You obviously need to go with what you think works best in your circumstances but have you thought if what your strategy would be post 2030 or 2035? Are you expecting the EV experience to become that much better or would you go for picking a good ICE and keep it going. It looks like you've done that before.

 

I'm assuming I won't make it to 30/35 as will get electrocuted by the EV before then (that's what some FUD said in the pub so it must be true)

Kind of hoping more companies will emerge that can repair EV motors and Batts if you encounter issues, like you can with ICE engines, instead off the default you need a new one at xxxxx price.

If you have someone drive into your beloved EV at the moment and there is structural damage, from what I'm seeing online (maybe this is all FUD sites etc) the default action is to write the vehicle off. The cars are built around the batts, there's not enough places or people qualified to touch them so its bye bye time.

Something needs to change so buying an older higher mileage used EV is not such a gamble if the motor/batt needs fixing.

I'm not sure what the data/numbers are, but there must be a substantial amount of people that do not have the means to buy/lease/PCP a new/nearly new EV/or ICE for that matter, so they need/use older higher mileage vehicles. What are these people going to do when they have a batt/motor issue that out of the 8yr/100k warrenty?

Maybe insurance companies could charge a higher premium and if the car is written off by Batt/Motor they can claim the market value of working model.

hmmmmm i may just have solved the whole problem. If I was insured against it say £250 a year extra on my premium, no issue I would be looking at 100k plus EVs.

 

Someone set up a EV specialist insurance company, you can have my Business, I will let you have my idea for free.

Quicker..................

 

I'm currently back in an ICE and I hate it.

Having to go to a specific place to fill the car....blergh...and it takes around ~15mins all in:
Lets say I drive out of the supermarket, 1 minute to drive over to the pumps,
wait for the car in front of me to clear their pump - 5mins if they dont do any shopping in there,
I drive up to the pump and use it - 5mins,
wait my turn at the kiosk - 3mins,
leave the garage get in the car and turn the car on before leaving - 1minute,
and we will ignore the up to 5mins spent queuing to leave the petrol station via the only exit onto the busy shopping center roundabout) to keep things fair, but mark my words I'm stuck there...

It's even longer if you forget you are going out the next day and are on fumes and need to go out specifically to fill up as that adds 10mins at the front and 10mins at the end.
"I can add 400miles in 4mins in my diesel" my arse...

In my EV I get out of the car after parking at home & grab the cable - lets imagine it takes me 1 full minute...(purposely being mean to myself, opening the door, getting out, stepping 5ft to the charger and grabbing the cable takes less than that)
I plug it in- lets imagine it takes me 1 full minute... (opening the charge port and moving my hand towards it.. also not a full minute)
I then go inside - lets imagine it takes me 1 minute... (which I would have to do upon returning in my ICE but I'll include it...still doesnt take a minute to walk to the door from the drive)

Thats 5x faster than a derv.

"But you can't do 400 miles!" they scream.
No, quite right. but If I want to add 250miles it will take me 3 mins, if they want to add 25miles, 250 miles or 400miles it will take them the full ~15mins.

I like the smell of Petrol and Diesel, but having to lug myself there is a pain.

 

I'm currently back in an ICE and I hate it.

Having to go to a specific place to fill the car....blergh...and it takes around ~15mins all in:
Lets say I drive out of the supermarket, 1 minute to drive over to the pumps,
wait for the car in front of me to clear their pump - 5mins if they dont do any shopping in there,
I drive up to the pump and use it - 5mins,
wait my turn at the kiosk - 3mins,
leave the garage get in the car and turn the car on before leaving - 1minute,
and we will ignore the up to 5mins spent queuing to leave the petrol station via the only exit onto the busy shopping center roundabout) to keep things fair, but mark my words I'm stuck there...

It's even longer if you forget you are going out the next day and are on fumes and need to go out specifically to fill up as that adds 10mins at the front and 10mins at the end.
"I can add 400miles in 4mins in my diesel" my arse...

In my EV I get out of the car after parking at home & grab the cable - lets imagine it takes me 1 full minute...(purposely being mean to myself, opening the door, getting out, stepping 5ft to the charger and grabbing the cable takes less than that)
I plug it in- lets imagine it takes me 1 full minute... (opening the charge port and moving my hand towards it.. also not a full minute)
I then go inside - lets imagine it takes me 1 minute... (which I would have to do upon returning in my ICE but I'll include it...still doesnt take a minute to walk to the door from the drive)

Thats 5x faster than a derv.

"But you can't do 400 miles!" they scream.
No, quite right. but If I want to add 250miles it will take me 3 mins, if they want to add 25miles, 250 miles or 400miles it will take them the full ~15mins.

I like the smell of Petrol and Diesel, but having to lug myself there is a pain.

But the counter to all that would be. You come back from a trip with the car at 5% or less because you wanted to minimise your costs charging it back up, then as you pull on the drive a relative 50 miles away phones and needs you urgently, you need two hours to turn around?

 

Haven't read through the comments but it seems like EVs are more reliable (less maintenance, service, and breaking down) than ICE, so the response to one bad EV should be to remember that. If you have a bad experience with EV, change brand, do a little research on the reliability of the brand and model you are considering, and stick with EV.

 

I find it odd that people say filling their ice is inconvenient, granted I live in rural Dorset but I can’t remember the last time I had to queue for a pump or to pay. It really is in/out in under 5 mins.

 

It would take me about half an hour to fill up. Nearest pump is about 10 mins away.

 

Filling at the pump at the local grande surface could be relatively quick but probably 10 mins by the time the card was read and approved and the fuel put in but get your timing wrong and it was an annoying wait with me invariable choosing the wrong pump qudue and then on the motorways could be the same …not the simple always just a 5min stop as alleged By many.