None of the Ecotricity DBT rapids will do more than 43kW AFAIK.

Chademo is limited by both current and voltage. Do we know what the voltage of the 40kWh Leaf is, "full" and "empty"?

 

I mentioned in another thread,hearsay i picked up on was this is well documented in Japan already,,im waiting for Bjorn Nyland to roadtrip the new Leaf as i am sure he will show us soon enough,even though its winter still.

 

I hope he does it soon, because I need to decide in the next week or so whether to order one. It needs to be ordered before the end of February.

 

I think its a very important point that needs to be clarified TBH.

 

I think its a very important point that needs to be clarified TBH.

Paging @Miles Roberts - have you done any long-run higher battery temperature tests you can share with us?

 

I charged 27.4kWh from 9% SOC to 84% on the Ecotricity Rapid at Penrith in 43 minutes - outside temperature was 2deg C.

 

That's a 38kW average. Would be interesting to know if a true 50kW is possible, that would need a vendor other than Ecotricity of course!

 

Might be well worth finding some ABB or CM UltraCharger units to try, quite a few bigger capacity or differently configured battery cars seem to get poor charge rates from DBT units.

 

I find my 30kWh charges a bit slower in this cold weather. Mind, having warmed up the battery to the degree shown in the video it does cause some concern. Could a be a problem with just that specific car, or could it be the DBT chargers need a software update to understand the needs of the new 40kWh battery? Clearly the charging curve of the 24 differs to the 30 with the 30 tapering off down later. A similar update may be required for the 40 if that is how it works. Is it not the charger that controls the charging rate on a rapid, not the car?
PS Shouldn't this thread be in a dedicated Leaf 40 section? Hint @Admin !

 

It was a bit of an eye opener for me, not that I am likely to do more than one rapid on any trip I forsee but obviously a concern for some.
I would have liked to have seen the figures on the DBT screen to see how they related to what the car was showing. I am not a big rapid user but have never seen rates that low on either a 24 or a 30 unless SOC is much higher. Dont know enough about the protocols to guess at a cause.

 

LeafSpy might give a more informative ongoing figure and show the charge rate curve. One has to wonder if the denser battery chemistry causes the 40 to struggle to actively cool the battery compared to the 24 and 30 and the hinted at spec of the 60 includes active battery temperature management so even Nissan seem to believe it is a requirement. Do they need to modify the 40 design to include it now? Could it be just the UK built cars have this issue?

 

I was wondering why they launched it in Winter, when the logical best time to launch an EV is in Summer when the range will be at its best. Now I see why

 

So if one purchases a Leaf 40 and it proves that the battery does overheat come the summer, what redress is there to get the matter resolved? I seem to remember that with the original Leaf owners in the hottest parts of America discovered during the summer that prolonged exposure to heat aged to battery quickly to the extent it reduced its capacity and usable range. Is history about to repeat itself?

 

At the moment I am seriously cooling on the whole "purchase" idea, and may switch to a personal lease... or a different model. I had a change of circumstances that meant I was able to buy this time, and the Leaf 2 looked like a reasonable option.

 

Cooling seems a good idea

 

Has this been picked up on elsewhere? Surely the US Leaf 2s have been through similar rapid charge patterns and I would expect generally at higher ambients.
I am not a prolific follower of other forums so generally wouldn't come across this. Time to get googling methinks.

 

Was the issue prophetized here by Transport Evolved?

Head, sand, bury?

 

Can someone, please test this at a Nissan dealer with their PodPoint Rapid - you get a free charge and a decent cup of coffee!

 

Nissan dealers have DBT rapids like the EcoT ones. Their Pod-points are just fast 7kW chargers.

 

I believe there are some Lidl rapids near both Leo and Aaron's home abodes so it would be interesting to try some repeated rapid charges on a tour of these; albeit the issue seems to be excessive heat retained in the battery pack preventing further true rapid charges rather than the rate of the initial rapid charge of the day.
I suppose most wouldn't need to do repeated rapid charges on the same day given the range available now, but for some it certainly will be when on a long holiday or work trip. The slow rate achieved on subsequent charges with the battery getting hotter and hotter seems to have the potential to damage the battery and make inefficient use of rapid charging posts. If those charges have to be paid for by time, or just have a time restriction on them the benefits of the larger battery will be offset by inefficient charging so why bother with the larger battery?
It really does need a similar test on chargers other than EcoT's to eliminate the possibilty the issue is down to the DBT units rather than the car. Presently the car looks to be the 'culprit' but that isn't wholly confirmed. Maybe someone borrowing a demo for an extended test could check this out too.

 

With the 30kw normally I plan to get between 75 - 90 miles @ 60mph indicated between rapid charges so that allows the heat build up to dissipate, the important factor is the time taken to cool!

 

Yes, for many users it won't be an issue and even then can be worked around by keeping the speed down a bit which will give more time for cooling and put less strain on the battery due to working it hard while driving (Aaron seems to have driven a long time at 70.) Mind, people do and that's perfectly legal!

 

As Aaron clearly concedes that he started with little charge before hitting the first rapid. Whereas most would be leaving from home with 100% so hopefully looking at 260 miles before you would need to do your second rapid on a long trip.
Even so unacceptable for usability for a few people and potentially a barrier to take up for Joe Public.
Still if this thermal management proves to be an issue it will be an own goal on behalf of Nissan.
The last thing EVs need is yet another horror story.

 

Is there anyone else claiming ownership of a Leaf 2.X and experience of rapid charging it? Can't believe there are only two private owners so far!
Also, has anyone paired the car with Leaf Spy to get battery stats etc? (I presume the OBD port is accessible?)

 

You may well be number three on here @John Kendrick i am hopefully collecting on the 1st March but cant forsee any journeys using rapids anytime soon.

 

1st March here too; sensible to wait a few days for the new reg! Mind, I haven't heard its arrived at the dealer yet but date advised for that is imminent. My current insurance expires on 20th Feb so have to renew it, then change it almost immediately for the new car!
I find it hard to believe only two UK customers to date, mind there could be others who don't come here of course.
As to the battery issue, I tend not to rush things to conserve charge which was essential with my Gen 1 Leaf and no chargers around and the habit's stuck. Better than doing speed awareness courses! I can't see any normal need to be doing multiple rapid charges in one day and Aaron did at least make it home OK on that last long leg. He wouldn't have on any previous Leafs.
Keep up the good work Aaron and Leo. Will I have to start a Youtube channel?? Mmmm. Can't see myself equalling Ian Sampson's, ELM's, Aaron's and others efforts though. However, if the needs be!

 

Cmon surely others must have seen this possibly coming as a potential issue knowing how the 30 behaves and knowing the 40 isnt actively managed,yes?

 

If it's no worse than the 30 I won't have a problem as I haven't had a problem with that! But if it is, not good! I suspect if any Leaf 2 purchasers have found an issue we'd hear about it one way or the other when they come here to complain.
It begs the question some will soon be posting here as new readers looking to buy a new car soon (and forgetting PCP rates, cash price etc.compared to Leaf 1) is the Leaf 2 a sensible EV to purchase? Some will clearly say why not get a Zoe, but that might be too small for some. Others will say get an Ioniq, but clearly can you get a new one easily? Someone else will say get a Soul, but they're an acquired taste! Model 3? Not here yet? i3, worth considering if you don't mind it being a BMW! eGolf, same really, some will have been put off by their emission scandals and prefer to avoid the brand. However, regarding the Leaf 2 my answer would be it's too soon to say. What do others think and will this battery issue be a show stopper?

 

The unknown here is not how happy the pack is with temps as i wouldnt care,it would be how restrictive a rapid charge rate you would get when the temp rises in the pack and the ambient temp is higher like during summer.

We all know the 30 can have issues,the question for me would be is the 40 more or less susceptible to it?

My instinct is it will be no worse or less of an issue than the 30 but it would stop me buying the car until it was proven either way.

 

The 40 kWh should be better as the current draw at any speed will be a lower C rating for the larger battery. i.e. a lower proportion of the current capacity.

 

The geekier amongst us certainly recognise this as a stopgap car for Nissan. Even so, to see the charge restricted to 22kW on a "rapid" is a shocker. I hope it's a firmware glitch that can be easily corrected. The world needs this car to work! It does seem shortsighted of Nissan to stick with no thermal management. Glad I didn't wait for this car now.

 

The c

Charging is not shown to be restricted by the car, I have used Rapids that are under performing and do not give an expected rate of charge.

 

What worries me is that the charge rate drops to 27kW on the second charge, and 22kW on the third when the ambient temperature is <10C. In summer what will happen when it is 30C in the UK, or in places where it stretches to 50C!! This smells like a major problem.

 

What worries me is that the charge rate drops to 27kW on the second charge, and 22kW on the third when the ambient temperature is <10C. In summer what will happen when it is 30C in the UK, or in places where it stretches to 50C!! This smells like a major problem.

Sorry, you had me up until that point, and then I couldn't read the rest as I couldn't stop laughing.

 

This 'new' (face lift) Leaf is looking more and more like a hack to me.

We need to wait for the 60 as it has battery cooling tech. Probably coming this year and much sooner than Nissan are letting on.

There is the ENV40 5/7 seater which has battery cooling however... that's what I'd get if I had to choose now.