Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

2023 330e - Is this how this works?!

22K views 71 replies 11 participants last post by  walkerdb7  
#1 ·
Hi all, new to plug ins, but not new to BMW. Wanted to go for a i4, but couldn't live without AWD in Chicago. Didn't want to wait like 9 months and get stuck paying for the M. I settled on the 330e.

It does not work like I thought a hybrid does and I am confused AF. Can anyone with this car put me out of mysery and help me solve if I have an issue or not?

2023 330e is in hybrid mode. I am driving in suburban Chicago where there are a regular density of traffic lights. In hybrid mode, it seems like the car drives in EV mode to exhaustion and then switches to combustion.

For example, this morning I drove somewhere that was about 7 miles away each way or 14 total. When I started the car off a full charge, it said the range was 17mi. It is 28F outside. The car is in hybrid mode. The battery range on the bottom right was down to about 8 miles when I got to my destination. On the return trip, it was exhausted about 3 miles from house. That means I drove 12 total miles in hybrid mode and the battery was done.

Is that how the hybrid mode is intended to operate?

The reason this causing me concern is that I don't understand how the hybrid mode is different than EV mode? I thought if the car the has 17 mi of pure EV driving, shouldn't that give 35mi, 50mi, etc of combined hybrid driving before the battery is exhausted?
 
#2 ·
I don't know the answer to your question, I am sure someone with specific model knowledge can advise on that (though this is mainly a UK based membership, and US cars might be different), but allow me to offer the tip that for all PHEVs, irrespective, when it is cold and you need heating on a trip longer than the electric range alone, then it is always advisable to set whatever mode you need to set to ensure the engine is running until it is warmed up.

Once you have enough all electric range to reach your destination, then you can select electric-only mode.

Allowing the car to choose the mode when you know more about your trip than the car does is not advisable. Best to select the optimum modes yourself.

Hope that might help slightly. Sounds like you have to invest some time into reading the manual and figuring how to do 'that'. Good luck.
 
#3 ·
If it's anything like my golf GTE. Then hybrid mode will use the battery as much as possible at lower speeds, and the petrol engine at higher speeds.

The point at which the engine kicks in, gets incrementally lower as the battery depletes.

Maybe you were just driving too slowly for the engine to kick in at the current battery charge.

The 7.5 golf and onwards also has the ability to adapt the hybrid system to suit the roads you're on, as long as you set the destination in the sat nav.
 
#4 ·
To rephrase my question a different way, I thought I got a low range EV and a Prius in 1 car. It feels like I have a low range EV and a ICE in 1 car. Hopefully that analogy makes sense.

Is the later correct? Is the car never just living on like 50% battery and 50% ICE?

My frusteration comes from the fact that the charge gets me through like 1 set errands because it's like permanently in EV mode. I thought with a hybrid, in hybrid mode, the charge would get me though a day or sort of ration between the gas and battery.

@Phil1 I know you have a VW and its different than a BMW, but I did notice something noting the GPS when I playing with modes. In your vehicle, can you use CarPlay or do you need the internal sat nav for the hybrid to talk to it?
 
#6 ·
To rephrase my question a different way, I thought I got a low range EV and a Prius in 1 car. It feels like I have a low range EV and a ICE in 1 car. Hopefully that analogy makes sense.

Is the later correct? Is the car never just living on like 50% battery and 50% ICE?

My frusteration comes from the fact that the charge gets me through like 1 set errands because it's like permanently in EV mode. I thought with a hybrid, in hybrid mode, the charge would get me though a day or sort of ration between the gas and battery.

@Phil1 I know you have a VW and its different than a BMW, but I did notice something noting the GPS when I playing with modes. In your vehicle, can you use CarPlay or do you need the internal sat nav for the hybrid to talk to it?
Yep you are correct that the Bmw Phevs will prioritise running on EV mode (in Auto hybrid mode) typically running on battery till exhausted except - 1 running above 60mph then ice kicks in (you can override this via EV mode)
2 Save mode -battery charges by ice
3 set journey on sat nav in eco mode and car will (intelligently !) adjust ice or EV
4 full battery then using semi Auto (selecter left position) will run on ice all day till drop back to full Auto.
Once battery is below 5% it's constantly trying to recharge by ice n mpg drops .
There are multiple combinations of modes to try out and on long trips I try to keep some charge in the battery by using the above(using save mostly on down hill sections for eg)
 
#5 ·
Internal sat nav for it to work.

Does your car have a sport mode or something similar? The GTE also has GTE mode which mostly uses the engine and then has battery boost on top of that to give it the full beans, is this the sort of thing you're talking about?

The golf also has battery hold and battery charge modes. Battery hold doesn't use the electric drive much and holds the charge level. Battery charge, actively charges the battery using constant regen, which is obviously very bad for fuel economy.

Generally speaking though, no they won't work 50/50 as that would be a bit pointless from a fuel economy point of view. They're designed to be charged then used, not run like you're suggesting.
 
#7 ·
You can expect it to drive in EV mode until the battery is exhausted then act as a hybrid with the engine on most of the time, the electric motor will still help you pull away from the lights and the engine will switch off in crawling traffic.

I looked at the 330e a few years back but the battery was just too small. I wanted 30 miles of real-world all-electric range.
 
#8 ·
I've got a 530e, which I think uses the same powertrain.

What @Norniron man says is right. However, point 3 is limited in that the algorithm assumed it has all the battery available for the journey, so if you need to return the same day and can't charge at your stopover, you'll have to go back on ICE alone.

It'll also switch to ICE if you boot it and try to accelerate more quickly than the electric motor can achieve....but you really want to avoid doing that without having warmed the ICE up first, since running an ICE hard when cold is going to reduce its life.

Generally, I think I can do a better job of deciding when to switch between EV and ICE modes than the car does, since I (usually!) know where I'm going and the types of roads I'll be using.

I switch to EV mode in slow stop/start traffic, where the EV side really works well. It also prevents the ICE continually stopping and restarting. If I know I'm likely to keep moving for a mile or two, then I switch to sport mode (or flip the gear lever left) to switch to ICE...but I then try to keep rolling so the engine doesn't stop again at least until it's fully warmed up.

If you're doing a lot of high-speed miles (motorway/freeway), then the battery save mode it quite good. Setting that to just below the current (no pun intended!) battery level will get it mostly using the ICE, but it'll switch to EV when the traffic slows down. It'll also regen to keep the battery at a useful level for when you exit to slower roads again.

It's actually kind of fun. If you really don't want to think about it, just let it do its own thing. But it can make drives a lot more interesting trying to decide the optimum propulsion system for the traffic conditions, that'll leave you with 1 mile electric range left when you get home!
 
#9 ·
If you set the satnav on a longer trip it may use the ICE sooner and keep some battery for later in the journey. Without the satnav it doesn't know what sort of road is ahead so it will just use up as much battery as it can: you might only be going as far as the battery takes you so unless it can tell otherwise there's no advantage to saving any battery for later.

I've got experience of both the 225xe and 225e but assume they're similar to the 330e in this regard.
 
#10 ·
If you set the satnav on a longer trip it may use the ICE sooner and keep some battery for later in the journey. Without the satnav it doesn't know what sort of road is ahead so it will just use up as much battery as it can: you might only be going as far as the battery takes you so unless it can tell otherwise there's no advantage to saving any battery for later.
It's a nice idea in theory, but it's never worked properly for me, given I often need to go home again afterwards, and there's no way.(that I've found) to make it only use 50% battery on the outward journey.
 
#11 ·
IME the low range PHEVs (10-15 perhaps 20 at outside EV range) do better driven using the manual override to control EV mode Vs ICE mode. Use EV when starting and in town (stop start traffic). Use ICE/hybrid ("E Save" or "Hybrid" in Merc terms; not sure about BMW) over 35mph or so. Conserve sufficient battery for urban traffic at destination and for return trip.

With a bit of mode switching at appropriate times you can get 50mpg (imp) on a run (and full EV on short journeys), despite the underlying ICE only delivering 35mpg or so.

Unfortunately I suspect the manufacturers won't be spending any more effort to tweak the software to get better EV usage automatically, as PHEVs with such small batteries are no longer tax efficient so aren't sold.

Full BEV is a lot less faff to drive, of course, and probably easier to deal with in software.
 
#15 · (Edited)
After a bit of digging (RTFM) I've realised it is possible to put numerous "Vias" into the route in the VW.

It's a bit convoluted though as it will automatically assume you're starting position (where the car currently is). The final destination, you need to set as the current location also, and then start the navigation. Once you've started navigation, only then can you add stopover locations into the route.

Hopefully that may then save 50% of the battery for the return journey in theory. I'll try it next time I'm on a longer drive 🤭

Edit : This is only really useful if it's a journey you know you're unable to make with battery only power. I wouldn't bother even setting a route if I knew I can make it without.
 
#26 ·
Hi all, new to plug ins, but not new to BMW. Wanted to go for a i4, but couldn't live without AWD in Chicago. Didn't want to wait like 9 months and get stuck paying for the M. I settled on the 330e.

It does not work like I thought a hybrid does and I am confused AF. Can anyone with this car put me out of mysery and help me solve if I have an issue or not?

2023 330e is in hybrid mode. I am driving in suburban Chicago where there are a regular density of traffic lights. In hybrid mode, it seems like the car drives in EV mode to exhaustion and then switches to combustion.

For example, this morning I drove somewhere that was about 7 miles away each way or 14 total. When I started the car off a full charge, it said the range was 17mi. It is 28F outside. The car is in hybrid mode. The battery range on the bottom right was down to about 8 miles when I got to my destination. On the return trip, it was exhausted about 3 miles from house. That means I drove 12 total miles in hybrid mode and the battery was done.

Is that how the hybrid mode is intended to operate?

The reason this causing me concern is that I don't understand how the hybrid mode is different than EV mode? I thought if the car the has 17 mi of pure EV driving, shouldn't that give 35mi, 50mi, etc of combined hybrid driving before the battery is exhausted?
I have had a 330e for three years now, but it's an RWD, not AWD. My car has a real battery range of 50km + under the conditions I am driving, I am driving to and from work on one full charge. During the summer I get about 5-10 km extra, during the winter 5-10 km less, depending on how cold it is. I am talking about the exact same route. If I take a different route, where motorway is part of the route, then I get less range. I charge at home every day. I have electric driving as default, so every morning the car starts with electric driving, but if I am not careful with the throttle pedal then the car will switch to hybrid. The difference between hybrid and electric is the top speed. In hybrid electric driving is limited to 110 km/h top speed, while in electric it is 140 km/h. Otherwise I don't see any other differences. If your range is too low then it's either too cold, or your driving conditions are more difficult, or driving style is more aggressive. During winter the roads are wet or snowy, it's dark (at least here) both in the morning and the afternoon, so I use more light. Naturally, also more heating is needed for comfort, and I am also pre heating the car, so the range is reduced. I don't know how warm the cabin is in your case, I don't like a lot of heat, so my climate is set to 18-19°C (64-66°F) all year around and in Auto mode.

The AWD version of 330e uses more juice than the RWD version I have, but 12 mi range is very low. That's half of what I get during the coldest and darkest winter day. I can't say that it's wrong and unacceptable, but I think you should drive for a while on the same route and build your own opinion. Driving random routes is pointless because it will result in random range results. Also, if you don't drive back and forth the same route then you won't get the energy back if the major part of the route is uphill and your battery gets discharged on that part. In my case I take the same route every day, the part to work is pretty steep uphill and after driving 25 km, arriving to work the car shows that I have 20 km range left. That information is enough for me and I know that I can drive the 25 km back home on battery only, because the major part in that case will be downhill. The GOM is called GOM because it's based on a guess, the guess is based on your last leg, so if the last leg is 25 km uphill then it will be based on higher consumption so it will show lower range left than what I get in reality.
 
#48 ·
I am not familiar with any BMW PHEV so forgive me if I am completely wrong here but having experience of the Ampera PHEV it sort of did operate like a Prius once the main traction battery was exhausted.
When coasting the ICE shuts down and you're running on a small buffer at the bottom of the battery under very light loads, at moderate/high loads the ICE fires up again. When at a halt the ICE is switched off and remains off, if you pull away gently until you've used up that tiny buffer and the ICE starts again. This is exactly how a regular Prius functions except the Prius shows its whole battery range (about 1KWh I believe) on the display whereas a PHEV will display empty during this time because you've used your main 12KWh or however large the 330e battery is and are just using the small buffer at the bottom.
Does the 330e not act like this? Once the battery is consumed does the ICE run the whole time? That would seem counterproductive
 
#49 ·
I am not familiar with any BMW PHEV so forgive me if I am completely wrong here but having experience of the Ampera PHEV it sort of did operate like a Prius once the main traction battery was exhausted.
When coasting the ICE shuts down and you're running on a small buffer at the bottom of the battery under very light loads, at moderate/high loads the ICE fires up again. When at a halt the ICE is switched off and remains off, if you pull away gently until you've used up that tiny buffer and the ICE starts again. This is exactly how a regular Prius functions except the Prius shows its whole battery range (about 1KWh I believe) on the display whereas a PHEV will display empty during this time because you've used your main 12KWh or however large the 330e battery is and are just using the small buffer at the bottom.
Does the 330e not act like this? Once the battery is consumed does the ICE run the whole time? That would seem counterproductive
That's exactly how the 330e works also. So if the OP means this as "Prius mode" then it is there, and in fact even better, since the car does recuperation also, even when using the friction brakes. It does that through using the electric motor as generator as much as possible and as long as you are not applying strong braking. Apparently the OP meant something else, if I understand him right.
 
#57 ·
A little late to this, but, here's my experience. I have to say, my initial understanding of how the system worked was completely wrong. Took a while to work out what was going on in different modes.

This is specifically about the 330e (and that is a 5 year old model). Other BWM models are or maybe configured differently and will operate differently. There is a lot to unpack here....

The simple way to view things is - The 330e ICE and electric motor are in line on the powertrain. The electric motor is part of the gearbox. The gearbox itself works pretty much just the same in EV mode as in ICE mode. The ICE and HV system work in concert with each other, switching modes and trading energy as demand calls.

The standard Auto mode will elect to use the HV battery until depleted, or, speed exceeds 50mph, or, you call for more power than the battery system alone can supply (80 BHP) - ie. hard acceleration or going up a or even starting on steep hill.
Even at high speed, the battery system can and will augment the ICE under low torque demand - flat terrain, even speed, etc - you will see mpg get better and power flow from the battery, even maybe only for a few seconds at a time. The two systems constantly work together. When you call for a little more power (eg just going up a slight incline), some extra EV power is added to the ICE and, when available, is power bled off by the electric motor acting as generator to recharge the battery (if the battery is depleted below its baseline level). That means the ICE operates more a little more efficiently using less fuel itself when it isn't needed and can be augmented by the HV system, but, then uses just a little more when it is in demand and the battery level needs to be bought up above complete discharge. The system tries to maintain a baseline distance of 1 to 2 miles electric coverage as far as it can by bleeding that energy from the ICE. That additional fuel usage to do that is less noticeable and is done in a higher power band in the ICE. You will often see no range or zero miles in the battery which then increases to 1m (which is closer to 2 miles in reality). The ICE recharges the HV battery when needed.

If you look on the app, the distance is always one mile greater than the in car display - that shows the rounded down integer number of miles available - that played around with my head for a while!!!.

So, under normal conditions when the HV battery has been used up, a little charge is fed back when some is available without massively increasing fuel consumption, and then the EV system takes over again under low torque demand. That process keeps recycling. Just like a standard HEV.

Energy is recovered to the battery when braking and coasting (by the electric motor on the gearbox) although the physical brakes will cut in under harder braking and the final stop. The balance of recharging and recovery rates also changes between standard and Eco modes. Perversely there seems to be less recovery in ECO mode when you take your foot off the accelerator and coasting - I presume that is if you are more careful when slowing down, you can lift off earlier than in Auto mode and coast to a stop over a longer distance - the effect of energy recovery braking is less. Comfort mode slows you down more quickly (without using the brakes) when coasting because energy is recovered more aggressively.

Eco mode reduces the profile of the accelerator making it more gentle than Comfort or Sport modes.
Any passenger compartment heating or cooling demand really sucks power out the HV battery. This effect is more pronounced when the HV battery is cold itself so range is already reduced. Time preconditioning can help if you can. But, the HV battery heater isn't much help when below zero degrees (Centigrade) - that heater is only available with preconditioning for a time departure. It doesn't have time to ward the battery when you switch on preconditioning manually. It takes an hour to two to heat the HV battery it seems.

Eco mode I also suspect reduces the feed to the electric steering motor - That is a big user of power. Inputting large and aggressive steering inputs will also drain the HV battery more quickly.

Have found the satnav has little effect on the switching from EV to ICE mode - I suspect that while it has some knowledge about the type and speed of roads in your planned journey, it has no knowledge of terrain.

Terrain makes a big difference too. I have a 4 mile uphill journey to get to the motorway. That just sucks energy from the HV battery. On the basis that I will often then be on the motorway often for 50-100 miles, it seems to be beneficial to put the system into save mode when setting out, which means the battery energy is retained for later and the ICE is already well warmed up before hitting the motorway. The thought of dropping into high load at speed on a stone cold engine doesn't sound a kind way to treat the ICE.

There is an awful lot of complexity in all this.

All that said, the range of my battery system has plummeted over the last couple of years. I could originally and easily get 25+ miles on a charge. That then dropped initially to approx 17 miles, then 11 miles and then recently plummeted to 5-6 miles recently. The dealer has, despite a number of trips for diagnosis, only just admitted that two of the five battery modules in the HV battery are faulty - that was shown after many Drivetrain warnings and even red alerts (ie STOP!). They are being replaced today under the 6 year manufacturer battery warranty.

Despite the problem of much reduced range and consequential inefficient charging due to the battery fault, the car has still returned 55+mpg at an average speed of over 35mph over 30k miles. That I think is a high return over a long distance at a mix of speeds, both slower urban driving and high motorway speeds. I think this shows how the electronics moves power around using and saving battery power as demand calls. I do probably think far more than I should and is healthy as to which is the best strategy for each journey. I am usually careful using my right foot, but, at times, I am no angel. That said - I am fortunate and have a Z4 for more 'creative' driving. That average mpg has dropped from 65mpg over three years due to the fault as more ICE miles have been done due to the lower electric range.

If you want to drive without any understanding of how the system works, you can (and should). Plug it in and recharge when you can (and make the most of overnight electricity rates if you can). Leave it in Auto and Comfort or switch to Eco mode if you can. The car simply uses up any available charge and then reverts to working like a standard HEV unless at some point you trip one of the conditions to cut to ICE. If you are prepared to think a little more carefully, you can extract a great deal more EV range when it is best to be in that mode.
The cost of charging is still less than petrol especially on a cold engine. Most local journeys are often just a few miles. A cold ICE is operating at 20-25mpg in those circumstances. Use electric for those when you can. Even plug in and recharge at day rates if you can - it is still often cheaper than using a cold ICE.

I do however expect, that in years to come, AI will be used to learn over time how and where you drive to maximise the EV and ICE characteristics. It won't be perfect, but, it will help.

Just another observation - Winter tyres cost about 5mpg. That was a surprise.
As I said, a lot to unpack. Hope it helps. Apologies if it doesn't.
 
#58 ·
Went with a level 2 charger. Charges the full battery in 2.5-3 hours. Works very well. Everytime I pull in, plug it in, and leave nearly every time with a full battery. Basically, I have a very short range EV now with a battery back up for when the battery runs out.

I stopped hating the car, this works, but it just makes me want a full EV more now.
 
#59 ·
Went with a level 2 charger. Charges the full battery in 2.5-3 hours. Works very well. Everytime I pull in, plug it in, and leave nearly every time with a full battery. Basically, I have a very short range EV now with a battery back up for when the battery runs out.

I stopped hating the car, this works, but it just makes me want a full EV more now.
Until you are faced with low battery power miles from home n can't find a working/free charger/charge point or it's ÂŁ1 a KWh ! Me I'm very happy to have a 1.5 turbo 'range extender ' !