[Jeremy Harris]

If you are in to DIY, then the suggestion from @HughF is the best. If you still want good value for money and simple installation then Pylontech are still the best.

It's always horses for courses, but both the Pylontech and Seplos Mason options have a strong following with a good reputation for reliability. If I was going to start again I'd go for the system that @HughF has suggested, but at the time I felt it was worth paying a bit more for a "plug and play" system. Depends very much on how willing anyone is to get into the nitty gritty of wiring a system up, with some emphasis on the risks associated with high current systems, as well as those associated with mains voltage equipment. None of this stuff is illegal, but it does need common sense and a healthy respect for the risks involved.

 

[HughF]

If you are in to DIY, then the suggestion from @HughF is the best. If you want value for money and simply installation then Pylontech are still the best.

It's always horses for courses, but both the Pylontech and Seplos Mason options have a strong following with a good reputation for reliability. If I was going to start again I'd go for the system that @HughF has suggested, but at the time I felt it was worth paying a bit more for a "plug and play" system. Depends very much on how willing anyone is to get into the nitty gritty of wiring a system up, with some emphasis on the risks associated with high current systems, as well as those associated with mains voltage equipment. None of this stuff is illegal, but it does need common sense and a healthy respect for the risks involved.

I was put off the pylontech by the fact I didn’t have space for a server rack in my porch. The mason vertical case fitted nicely back against the wall.

If I cover my roof in solar I might consider adding another 15kWh to the setup to bring me up to 45.

 

[Cheshirecat]

@Jeremy Harris and @Cheshirecat: you guys missed one requirement: 'Have limited space and the install would need to be outside' That rules out anything like Pylontech you suggested unless you put them in IP68 enclosure.

I would personally suggest All-in-One from GivEnergy which can easily be integrated with IOG via for example Home Assistant. Any GivEnergy inverter with their separate batteries will do the job too.

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Nope
Didnt miss it.
JH has answered👍

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I was put off the pylontech by the fact I didn’t have space for a server rack in my porch. The mason vertical case fitted nicely back against the wall.

If I cover my roof in solar I might consider adding another 15kWh to the setup to bring me up to 45.

I'd already put in a concrete base for the battery shed when building the house, complete with a bit of 100mm duct coming up through the slab and two runs of SWA going back to the CU, terminated in Wiska boxes outside, ready to be hooked up.

I was originally going to build a block shed, but spotted the Dorset Log Stores ones at a local garden centre, measured one up and realised they were pretty much perfect to take a 19" rack with six Pylontechs and room for the inverter on the wall behind. Only modification I needed to make was to add a kitchen extractor fan, with a bit of 100mm ducting behind the inverter heat sink, together with a plug-in thermostatic switch with a remote sensor, so that the fan turns on whenever the heat sink gets above 35°C. Despite the shed being up against a tall retaining wall, in complete shade, to the North of the house, it did used to get very warm in summer when solar charging. I was going to insulated the whole shed with PIR foam, but ended up just putting a 50mm thick bit under the 19mm marine ply false floor I added.

This has worked fine for over three years. The batteries and inverter never get very cold, mostly because the system always charges overnight in winter, so the inverter gives off more than enough heat to keep the inside of the shed pretty cosy. The inverter generates a lot more heat when charging than it does when discharging for some reason. Not a massive amount in terms of losses, but even 5% of 3kW is 150W, which is quite a lot in such a small space.

 

[M_J]

Any recommendations?

I have an early GivEnergy AC inverter and a 5.2 and 2.6 battery.

If I was doing it again I think I would avoid GE as you are tied into their eco system and their BMS at times have problems with management of two batteries.

If you have the skills certainly follow the advice above and don't use GE.

What is actually key is how the BMS works with multiple batteries and the support if things go wrong.

So I would do due diligence on those things.

My problems with the batteries tend to occur when I am playing the export game with Agile. Lots of charge / discharge seems to cause BMS issues.

If your use case is a simple charge up at night and steady discharge that causes less issues.

The other key point is to keep the BMS happy is to regularly fully discharge and recharge the system to keep it properly calibrated.

Finally it is better to have the system slightly under your requirement so you make best use of the money you spend.

 

[Thomas Carter]

I have an early GivEnergy AC inverter and a 5.2 and 2.6 battery.

If I was doing it again I think I would avoid GE as you are tied into their eco system and their BMS at times have problems with management of two batteries.

If you have the skills certainly follow the advice above and don't use GE.

What is actually key is how the BMS works with multiple batteries and the support if things go wrong.

So I would do due diligence on those things.

My problems with the batteries tend to occur when I am playing the export game with Agile. Lots of charge / discharge seems to cause BMS issues.

If your use case is a simple charge up at night and steady discharge that causes less issues.

The other key point is to keep the BMS happy is to regularly fully discharge and recharge the system to keep it properly calibrated.

Finally it is better to have the system slightly under your requirement so you make best use of the money you spend.

+1 for due dillegence, i have a growatt system and although its been pretty foolproof I may have to scrap and start again due to the inverters 3kw output and max batt capacity being less than we need after having a heat pump, with hindsight should have got a system we can swap parts out like the inverter as our needs chsnged

 

[M_J]

Trying to guess the future is always tough and new technology can make original choices redundant.

Certainly if you think you might be going to increase electric usage then the inverter performance is key.

Battery tech is maturing but I still think we are perhaps on the bleeding edge for a few more years.

The GE systems have been rolled out to folk with little technical expertise and the GE forum is seeing an uptick in those with minimal knowledge trying to get to grips with faults and perceived faults because they don't understand the tech.

GE as a company is suffering growth pains and poor senior management as it grows. They have apparently lost a lot of help desk staff and have made poor release management choices that have compounded support issues.

 

[Cheshirecat]

My Pylontech rack is smaller than a wine cooler
Its in my (attached) garage but would just as easily fitted in my Dining Room in the corner with a big house-plant on it.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Trying to guess the future is always tough and new technology can make original choices redundant.

Certainly if you think you might be going to increase electric usage then the inverter performance is key.

Battery tech is maturing but I still think we are perhaps on the bleeding edge for a few more years.

The GE systems have been rolled out to folk with little technical expertise and the GE forum is seeing an uptick in those with minimal knowledge trying to get to grips with faults and perceived faults because they don't understand the tech.

GE as a company is suffering growth pains and poor senior management as it grows. They have apparently lost a lot of help desk staff and have made poor release management choices that have compounded support issues.

Unfortunately there are lots of issues around companies not being as competent as they could be in this sector. Been the same for years, though. I used to regularly visit shows at the home build centre at Swindon, and there would pretty much always be one or two new solar, battery or heat pump suppliers there. Sadly very, very often their own knowledge of the products they were selling was very often limited, sometimes dangerously so. The home build forum I used to be on was full of observations like this.

One issue seems to be very often the manufacturers of imported kit (and most of it is imported) aren't great at providing detailed technical training and support to their agents. Just the language barrier alone is enough to cause challenges. I remember asking one UK supplier about the characteristics of their AC coupled battery inverter, specifically whether there was a N to PE link when it was running in off-grid mode. They couldn't tell me and couldn't get an answer from the manufacturer, either.

This is pretty fundamental to being able to use the system off-grid. In the end I went to their place and made some measurements on their demo rig. These showed that the supply was IT when in off-grid mode (just like EV V2L systems) and so an external N to PE link was needed in that mode. I made some changes to their demo rig (just added an additional contact block to the TS) and that made the unit safe to use on UK installations. The worrying thing is that this company had already installed a lot of these systems, all operating as IT when in off-grid mode. Not inherently dangerous, no different to using V2L, or a portable generator, but not as safe as it should be.

 

[electricdriver]

I’ll also float this battery that I’ve come across recently from sigenergy, not because it’s cheap (£5000 for 10kw and inverter) but because it’s got the option of a DC charging capable of charging at up to 12 or 24kw (even on 2phase by combining mains,battery and solar) and that appears to be capable of supporting bidirectional charging over CC

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I’m still reading up about it but if that module is legit I’m staggered I’ve not heard about it before as for me being able to install and use a bidirectional charger is a massive deal (especially after we had yet more power cuts this year) - it would only need to be officially supported by octopus et al for the special EV/heat pump rates and it would be an insta buy to replace our existing system I’d say

I’m about to go for a large scale solar extension and battery system - due to time constraints and inability to find a local friendly Part P person I’ll just use a local installer. None of it’s cheap once their costs are on, but the most convincing system so far uses this Sigenergy system - up to 40kWh if storage in 8kWh modules. I’ll likely start with 24kWh and see how it goes. I had spotted the dc charging option, think it’s probably of limited real use to me but will certainly see what it costs and how it might work. They do offer an off-grid option which I will also take. More reports to follow once we have a date, and the DNO faffing is done.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Going local is always the best bet, may not be the cheapest initially, but you have a good chance of being able to get maintenance and service in years to come, from someone that understands the installation. The problem with the marketing companies that have sprung up to profit from grants etc is that very often they are much better at marketing and advertising than they are at the technical side. Often they just sub-contract the work out anyway, so you end up paying for two companies, rather than just one.

Always a challenge to find someone that's competent, though. I honestly don't know the best way to find someone, as the really good people often have no need to advertise, as they get more work than they can handle from word of mouth recommendation. Does make it hard to find them if you're outside that loop, though. What I did learn when building this house was that you can pick up on good people from other trades. For example I heard about a decorator from our plasterer (turned out to be very good indeed). In turn that led to a recommendation for a tiler who did an excellent job of laying loads of travertine flooring. In general, people won't recommend other trades who aren't that good, because it reflects badly on them if something goes wrong.

 

[HughF]

Unfortunately there are lots of issues around companies not being as competent as they could be in this sector. Been the same for years, though. I used to regularly visit shows at the home build centre at Swindon, and there would pretty much always be one or two new solar, battery or heat pump suppliers there. Sadly very, very often their own knowledge of the products they were selling was very often limited, sometimes dangerously so. The home build forum I used to be on was full of observations like this.

One issue seems to be very often the manufacturers of imported kit (and most of it is imported) aren't great at providing detailed technical training and support to their agents. Just the language barrier alone is enough to cause challenges. I remember asking one UK supplier about the characteristics of their AC coupled battery inverter, specifically whether there was a N to PE link when it was running in off-grid mode. They couldn't tell me and couldn't get an answer from the manufacturer, either.

This is pretty fundamental to being able to use the system off-grid. In the end I went to their place and made some measurements on their demo rig. These showed that the supply was IT when in off-grid mode (just like EV V2L systems) and so an external N to PE link was needed in that mode. I made some changes to their demo rig (just added an additional contact block to the TS) and that made the unit safe to use on UK installations. The worrying thing is that this company had already installed a lot of these systems, all operating as IT when in off-grid mode. Not inherently dangerous, no different to using V2L, or a portable generator, but not as safe as it should be.

I tried to get some values from Sunsynk technical, to help with the EICR process (the code of practice for ESS specifically said these values should come from the manufacturer) - Sunsynk were useless

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I tried to get some values from Sunsynk technical, to help with the EICR process (the code of practice for ESS specifically said these values should come from the manufacturer) - Sunsynk were useless

Doesn't surprise me. Sofar were just the same. Seems the best way to find something out for sure is to physically check the thing, which is bonkers, really. Sofar went so far (no pun intended) as to tell me that it was dangerous for any supply to have the neutral and PE linked at the source! Funny thing is that their newer models all now have a N to PE link when in off-grid mode.

 

[nabrU]

I have an early GivEnergy AC inverter and a 5.2 and 2.6 battery.

If I was doing it again I think I would avoid GE as you are tied into their eco system and their BMS at times have problems with management of two batteries.

If you have the skills certainly follow the advice above and don't use GE.

Well, I have exactly opposite experience with GE. I have their 5kW Gen 3 hybrid inverter and their 9.5kWh Gen 2 battery installed in July 2023 (as well as 4.8kWp PV on the roof) and have never had any single problem with it. And I use it extensively with many charges / discharges a day as it is all managed by HA Predbat integration. Hence my initial recommendation here.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

Well, I have exactly opposite experience with GE. I have their 5kW Gen 3 hybrid inverter and their 9.5kWh Gen 2 battery installed in July 2023 (as well as 4.8kWp PV on the roof) and have never had any single problem with it. And I use it extensively with many charges / discharges a day as it is all managed by HA Predbat integration. Hence my initial recommendation here.

Yeah we also have GE battery and inverter. Also trouble free in and of themselves. They do have UK support and do answer the phone and fix numpty issues. They are imperfect, occasionally they know less than I do, but in general it’s pretty good. I did have to figure out our biggest issue without their help but it wasn’t a problem with their kit, it was a grid problem. You’d think they would have figured that one out before I did but otherwise they have been doing ok in our experience.

I know some people have had a miserable ownership experience but seems that most customers have a pretty good one.
The control app is good. The system handles things like grid over voltage without throwing errors or alarms, just quietly modulates output, no drama. It’s not perfect but it’s pretty good.

 

[M_J]

They do have UK support and do answer the phone and fix numpty issues.

BTW

Currently Telephone support has been ended for customers.

Email only...

 

[M_J]

I know some people have had a miserable ownership experience but seems that most customers have a pretty good one.

I haven't had a miserable experience, it works but does glitch at times, usually when playing the Agile game.

As for most customers I haven't spoken to most so unless you have that's a meaningless statement...

😉

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

I haven't had a miserable experience, it works but does glitch at times, usually when playing the Agile game.

As for most customers I haven't spoken to most so unless you have that's a meaningless statement...

😉

Fair - although I have spoken to a few people with GEkit - it’s a small sample size.
Ours seems fairly happy with Agile.

 

[BornAgainEcoWarrior]

BTW

Currently Telephone support has been ended for customers.

Email only...

That’s news.
They answered when I last called in late November. Is this a recent thing or am I really lucky?

 

[HughF]

Doesn't surprise me. Sofar were just the same. Seems the best way to find something out for sure is to physically check the thing, which is bonkers, really. Sofar went so far (no pun intended) as to tell me that it was dangerous for any supply to have the neutral and PE linked at the source! Funny thing is that their newer models all now have a N to PE link when in off-grid mode.

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