I thought people wanted cheaper evs?

 

Drat! Why weren't they available 3 years ago when I was looking at the second hand EV market? So I bought a new MG ZS EV and exchanged it at the dealer after 2 years for more than I'd paid for it! I prefer my MG4 so all is well. Just hope it and the battery lasts well, I normally keep cars to about 12 years old.

 

Well they are cheap now.

 

Not sure I would go that far, those prices quoted are trade prices before dealer costs and margin on top and they appear to be for the lowest spec/battery size versions.

Compared to petrol equivalents the lower spec 40-50kWh EVs are getting close on price, but the longer range 60+kWh models are still quite a good bit pricier.

 

Would be interesting to plot prices of 3 year old cars against new to see whether they're just normalising to 50% loss after 3 years or whether there are some falling further to suggest they were just over priced to start with.

 

It's all very good news.

New buyers obviously win. People who want to replace an EV gets less for the old one but pay less for the new one. The only people who lose are people going to zero cars or from 2 to 1 cars in the family.

 

It's really just redressing the balance. EV prices were insane for a time. I sold my Tesla Model 3 after 14 months and lost only a couple of thousand on what I paid for it new. That's just not normal at all, demand was pushing up used prices to an unsustainable level. What's happening now is that supply is catching up with demand, a lot of those cars bought on three year deals are coming on to the market and prices are dropping, as they should do. Prices will stabilise as soon as the market balances supply and demand.

 

I agree entirely. My 2019 Model 3 LR sold last year for an excellent price when I replaced it with the Model Y LR. Only lost £3k, similar to your experience. When I decided to sell on the Model Y 6 weeks or so ago, it had depreciated far more, given current price movements. But I looked at the bigger picture and over the two of them it totalled £17k depreciation over almost 4 years of Tesla ownership. Or £355 per month. Which isn’t that bad really. Sold both via Motorway, good experience both times.

 

Fantastic news for me having been car-free for the past 2 years, or so.
Intending to buy a lightly used Jaguar I-Pace or Tesla Model S and some of the vehicles I've enquired on have been even cheaper than advertised. It seems a lot of dealers in the more mainstream ICE market are artificially dropping asking prices in an attempt to move on EV's as quickly as possible.

 

Supply and demand always balance, but when supply is (relatively) high and demand is (relatively) low, those prices are going to be lower than expected.

There's plenty of people losing a lot more than they expected to when they were buying a car significantly dearer than they were used to, with no discount or incentives (for the first time ever) and then losing 50% or more. If this carries on, I can imagine a lot of PCP'd BEVs getting given back at the end of term with little to no equity to hook them into another PCP.

 

Comparatively there are some real bargains around.. The market does seem to have stabalised somewhat all be it at a lower level.

The economy must also be a major factor. Most of the market was finance. Thats going to be very expensive given current rates. Three more rate rises to come this year.

Decent cars colour spec wise low miles etc priced corectly do sell quickly. However there is a lot of stock dealers are either unwilling or unable to take the hit on for the time being.

I have looked at cars thst were listed for sale August last year and are still on the market and haven't sold.

 

If you are willing to wait just few more months (if you are on the market for used EV) it will have another drop. Tesla just announced yet another cut on New inventory Model 3 in the US. So ...expect this to come down to other markets as well. The updated Model 3 is on the way and people will be selling the current model to get the new one. Love him or hate him but Musk is "controlling" the second hand market values in the US and very much in Europe. Every other EV manufacturer is waiting to see what he will do first before they make a move.

 

Mate was at the Tesla gaff earlier on - has a M3LR already. Told by the sales guy they have a bunch of cars not advertised, but are available and 6-7k off is doable.

I suspect they want to avoid another RRP hit but will be offering unadvertised discount.

 

There is a pretty concerted effort to put people off EV’s from all corners of the internet and even mainstream media. I really don’t think this is down to Elon Musk. If the driving force was new Tesla prices then new prices would be falling. It sounds like a great narrative to undermine new electric car prices though!

The amount of disinformation about EV’s is astonishing. Even normally trustworthy outlets such as The Times are publishing absolute tripe about them. A highly educated chap I work with wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole because of the nonsense he’s read. He’d be perfectly suited to one too; own drive, two cars, rarely does long distances. Wouldn’t even test drive one and bought a brand new A3 a short while back. He’s fallen for pretty much every anti-EV story going (the last one was man buys EV, doesn’t like, goes back to diesel). A few weeks back The Sun ran a Story about some random bloke that was thinking about buying an EV but decided not to. I’m not even exaggerating!

I’ve started watching a few anti EV videos on YouTube so now get pushed lots of them (as per the algorithm). It’s the same debunked BS on all of them but you get outlets like GB News getting so-called car experts from YouTube to spout crap. They end up on Facebook, then some other outlet reports it without fact checking (you know, car parks are going to collapse due to EV’s… absolutely nothing to do with everyone buying SUV’s).

Obviously there are people that EV’s don’t workout for but it is extremely rare someone without one talks to me about having an electric car, starting from a positive position.

The reason EV used prices are collapsing is people are being put off them by disinformation. The same thing isn’t happening to new car prices because people can save so much money though tax breaks like BIK in the U.K. that they don’t care.

Although it pains me to add clicks to the bloke, this is the sort of abject nonsense I’m talking about.https://youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1LIlcHPP4&feature=share

 

The reason EV used prices are collapsing is people are being put off them by disinformation. The same thing isn’t happening to new car prices because people can save so much money though tax breaks like BIK in the U.K. that they don’t care.

While the negative press doesn't help I'm not convinced it's the main cause of the drops, go back to last year and those used EV prices were very high compared to typical used cars of similar age, supported by the very limited supply on the used market and the shortage of new cars. They started from an exceptionally high price level and since then the volume hitting the used market has soared as they started coming off leases, meanwhile new car supply shortages have eased so with supply significantly up, they have now dropped closer to something typical for comparable used cars.

As you mention there's also the difference in incentives, the new buyers getting EVs as company cars or salary sacrifice cars get a huge tax benefit and on average are doing much higher annual mileages so making significant fuel savings. The used buyer gets no tax benefits and your average private motorist does a lot less miles each year so the fuel cost savings are less significant, the benefit from a used EV to the average private motorist is lower, reflected in the amount they are willing to pay.

 

 

What kind of person wears a hat like that indoors, unless they are firmly in character?

 

Here is some data which I have updated from Autotrader to give some factual numbers on the used EV market. I know AT is not the whole used market, but it will be directional.

Used EV Price & Volume Tracking Data

There are so many threads looking at tracking data related to used EVs. Auto Trader has a lot of very useful data and stats, so I thought I would start a thread for those who are wanting to know if it is a good time to buy or sell at any time. I realise that Auto Trader doesn't cover the whole...

www.speakev.com

 

Shock! Horror! New cars depreciate ...... who knew?

 

Far more than most people have been historically used to.

Most people are used to seeing actual losses of 40% of RRP over 3 years on a car costing X. Now they're financing losses of 50-60% on a car costing 1.2X. That's quite a difference.

Most people were getting 15-25% off list at the front end to see 40-60% of RRP at the back end, now people are paying list and still seeing 40-50% of RRP at the back end. Add in the fact that like for like, the BEV costs about 20% more than the ICEV.

For a private buyer of a new BEV, they are completely disincentivised financially - the VED and fuel savings don't add up against the heftier depreciation, in general.

 

Talk about cherry picking data. 6 months ago was the highest peak of used EV prices. From 2023, price has normalised. It's like mid 2022, writing the headline "petrol price have doubled", comparing £2 a litre to £1 a litre during lockdown.

But where's sub £10k Leaf 40's?

Yes, it has fallen over last 6 months, but hasn't fallen enough. I bought my Leaf 24 in 2017 from main dealer, it was about 2.5 years old, 18k on odometer, for under £9000. Why are 5 years old Leaf 40 with more than 50k on odometer still asking over £12,000?

 

Not a scientific study but I have just looked at the Mercedes website for secondhand EQC here and was surprised those around the same age as mine are advertised at 78% of their new price so have depreciated 22% in 20mths which seems quite low to me. Clearly they will be subject to a negotiated deal and will sell lower but nevertheless their values seem pretty solid.
I can find no consistent journalistic reference to electric cars per se showing a serious depreciation over and above their ICE equivilant though one site did say the high initial price does not translate well into the secondhand market which is more price sensitive so private electric car sellers may drop the price to compete against an ICE seller.
There are still subsidies for the secondhand buyer too so I have no doubt that will be helping but our government is totally committed to moving the fleet to electric sooner rather than later.

 

There is also the thing with high electricity prices quelling demand..

 

The addition of the initial grant also makes a difference as that has to be depreciated out as well. In low supply times it keeps prices higher but it in lower demand times I assume that makes the depreciation seem even worse. Now the grant is gone at all levels there isn't that price distortion. There's just the distortion from manufacturers offering discounts and 'contributions' aka bribes to buy their metal when they've got too much of it.

 

For those that got the grant, they'll have suffered less depreciation ) assuming RRPs didn't change significantly when it was removed). For those that missed out, they've paid £1500-3000 more than those that didn't). Some people paid £33k for a £36k car (excluding finance and dealership discounts/incentives) and some paid £36k for a £36k car. Not having had the grant makes you worse off than someone who did, whether demand is low or high when you sell it.

 

I was getting a bit depressed at how my two EVs have fallen in value this year, until I did the math... My ID.4 (bought new for £40k) is now selling for around £28k - 30% depreciation in 26+ months seems reasonable. Most car sites agree that around 40-50% depreciation after three years is normal and it looks like my ID.4 is on track for that. It is only depressing because six months ago I could have sold it for what I paid... My Zoe has fallen about 40% in the three years I've owned it (paid £17k when it was two years old, now worth around £10k), which also seems pretty reasonable. I'll have the Zoe paid off in four months though, and when my ID.4's PCP is up I'll have the cash to buy that out too. I'm not planning on selling either of them for a long time, so I'm happy.

 

It's not as simple as depreciation = what you paid vs current used forecourt selling price, its what you paid vs what you would get for it e.g. motorway.co.uk valuation, p/x price or similar. In your case, if used sticker price on your ID4 is £28k, likely you'd get £24k for it (£16k / 40% lost).

 

I'll be happy if prices don't fall too much for the next 2 years... I can dream can't I ?

 

I still have extremely bitter memories of the last house price crash. We'd stretched ourselves and bought a house for £85k in 1988. In late 1991 my job disappeared, with no alternative employment within daily travelling distance. Was offered a post in Scotland, with promotion, so took it, as the offer included a relocation package. Little did I know when I accepted the offer that the relocation company would sell our old house for £49k in 1992 and force us to accept that price.

 

I'm jumping in at the end here, so apologies if this has been said before, but my experience is that it's the P/Ex purchase price from a dealer that has dropped like a stone - giving a huge depreciation on original purchase prices. The humdinger though is that that dealer will then put that car on for a price much nearer the correct depreciated price from historical data - giving them a massive profit. That is why cars for sale on AT etc appear to have depreciated at the correct rate, which is fine for new buyers, except that they're still expensive compared to their ICE equivalents, but the previous owners will have been hit hard - especially if they bought (like myself) at a highly elevated price that gave the dealers another huge profit back when everyone wanted them, and they were in short supply.

 

They're probably building in a big safety margin in case Tesla drop another A-bomb sized price drop, or making up for losses made post the Jan price drop...or they could just be greedy b'stards. 15-20% margin on whatever a car dealer sells is considered reasonable.

 

Lets evaluate that then: My local dealer offered me £16K (which was better than the £14K at WBAC) - and they have niros on sale, granted with lower mileage, at around the £21K for a 69 plate hybrid 3. I'm not sure where that means they'd price my e-niro - but given the £8K price differential when they were new, it would be above £21K - so say £23K - so that would be £7K profit (before costs obvs) which on a £16K purchase, is 45% or thereabouts !!

 

I got offered 32.5k for my feb 2022 M3LR. I paid 51k for it 16 months ago. Thats a steep drop. Luckily it just about pays off the settlement if I needed to do so - and I'm tempted to jump into a Y which are discounted heavily now and use it to move from a loan to a PCP to give me some additional protections in case Tesla do more nonsense with pricing

 

I don't work in the trade, but I would presume a medium sized dealership with 20 staff needs to make around £1m profit/yr to be viable.

If they are selling ~300 cars per year that means £3k profit per car.

Anyone who is in the trade, do those cig packet figures seem about right?

 

I guess someone has to pay for the shiny showrooms and the 'free' coffee, unfortunately it seems to be us.

 

Static inducing trousers and branded fleeces don't come cheap these days.

 

Why is it that when someone posts something that is shall we say disagreeing with your own post, they don't usually answer when you ask them to explain ? even 30% is too much, but why say it if you can't explain it ?