No risk to the car.

The risk is to the cable/plug/socket if they are not rated for continuous high power use over many hours.

 

Risk of damage to the plug, as noted above. After 60k miles of use, the mains plug of my Czero charger is heat damaged.

With larger battery/faster charging cars, you're wasting quite a bit of power. The charger in the car is peak (perhaps 90%) efficient at around max rated power or perhaps slightly less; at much slower rates they can be significantly inefficient.

This effect is increased by the longer charging time at slower rates - all the time that the car is charging, it's running computers, a coolant pump, and perhaps a fan - all of which consume power.

If you're taking on 30kWh a day and throwing away 10% by using the granny cable instead of a proper EVSE, that's 35p; over 3 years it pays for a cheap EVSE after subsidy.

 

The thing I would worry about would be the charging cable not working. I would seriously consider looking for a second hand or new one as a back up plan. I am not sure how robust these EVSE cables are to use twice a day every day !!

 

I used the OEM (Yazaki ?) EVSE for my Ion every day for at least 4 hours over 6 months with no issues - I even had the unit permanently strapped to a downpipe on the outside of the house exposed to the elements as a poor man's tethered charger.

It was about a metre above the ground and sheltered from vertical rain by the eaves of the house, but not from driving rain - so it would sometimes get a bit wet, however the whole unit is water proof as long as the 3 pin plug is inside a waterproof outdoor socket. (Don't leave it lying on the ground though)

As others have pointed out, no risk to the car, the only risk is that if you use a poor quality socket that overheats it may eventually cause heat damage to the 3 pin plug. So the portable EVSE should not be considered a permanent solution for that reason. At about £300 they're not cheap to replace either.

I got a tethered Rolec installed and I use that now - the EVSE sits unused in a cupboard as an emergency backup, which I haven't needed to use!

 

If you could get a charge point at home you could cut the 3-pin charger use by half? Any free chargers on your routes? Cheers

 

Ah, I actually missed the bit where he said he charged both at home and at work.

In that case you have to consider wear and tear on the 3 pin sockets that are being used.

My EVSE was permanently plugged into a waterproof outdoor socket and was not being disturbed, however if the unit was being unplugged and plugged into the two different 3 pin sockets on a daily basis there may be a risk of the contacts in the sockets themselves losing tension over a few months of daily use.

This could eventually lead to overheating the socket/plug. A charge point at home would mean that the EVSE could be left plugged in at work - assuming it was somewhere secure and the socket wasn't needed for anything else of course.

BTW worth mentioning that charging a C-Zero/Ion from a dedicated 16 amp or 32 amp EV charge point is about 40% faster than charging using the 3 pin EVSE. (Charge current goes up from 9 amps to about 13 amps)

It drops charging time from nearly empty to full from 7 1/2 hours to about 4 hours, which can be be useful when making two long round trips from home in the same day.

 

PS Welcome to the mobility scooter club At least that is what I call mine... Cheers

 

Domestic 3 pin sockets are not designed for this type of use. It's a rather large accident waiting to happen if we don't move away from this onto charge points designed for continuous current use.
While a socket will theoretically be capable of up to 13A, it's not designed for continuous use. A kettle would only be on for a few minutes at load, as would most items, except a charger.

Our company would not let you plug one in due to the risk to the facility should it fail.

 

Domestic 3 pin sockets are not designed for this type of use. It's a rather large accident waiting to happen if we don't move away from this onto charge points designed for continuous current use.
While a socket will theoretically be capable of up to 13A, it's not designed for continuous use. A kettle would only be on for a few minutes at load, as would most items, except a charger.

The charger for an Ion runs at 9 amps, which is less than the commonly used 10 amps for most 3 pin EVSE's. So while it's still not a good idea for permanent use it's not quite as bad as you're making out.

 

Cut the plug off and fit a 16A "Cannon" type plug to the lead and use the 16A socket at home and work.

You can always make up a 13A to 16A socket adapter lead when you need to use a 13A socket.

 

Cut the plug off and fit a 16A "Cannon" type plug to the lead and use the 16A socket at home and work. You can always make up a 13A to 16A socket adapter lead when you need to use a 13A socket.

Hi Russ If i did what you said do i still keep tje 13amp fuse in the cannon type plug? Thx Jim

 

Cut the plug off and fit a 16A "Cannon" type plug to the lead and use the 16A socket at home and work.

You can always make up a 13A to 16A socket adapter lead when you need to use a 13A socket.

that's what I had to do after my original plug went a bit melty while I was using the granny cable (waiting for my first EVSE to be fixed)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think the original question was whether every day would harm the ev battery. The answer I think would be a no. The battery would be fine charging at a low rate.

As for the dangers of drawing that much power from a 13a socket... All you need to do is put your hand on the plug once in a while and check for heat. Heat I's bad and means a bad connection.

Apart from that, I'd say there's no problem. I only have the Granny charger at the moment, so use it every day, but it is in my workshop where I can keep an eye on it and check it for heat regularly.

 

There is no fuse in the Cannon type, this eliminates the problem of the fuse-holder in the 13A plug cooking.
However there is a serious problem to do with removing 13A plugs, Many EVSE's (aka Granny leads) have a thermistor or temperature sensor fitted in the plug to try and prevent meltdowns, cutting one of these off effectively scraps the granny lead, very hard to repair and the evse will not function without the temperature sensor.
There are various threads about this scattered about the forum.

 

There is no fuse in the Cannon type, this eliminates the problem of the fuse-holder in the 13A plug cooking.
However there is a serious problem to do with removing 13A plugs, Many EVSE's (aka Granny leads) have a thermistor or temperature sensor fitted in the plug to try and prevent meltdowns, cutting one of these off effectively scraps the granny lead, very hard to repair and the evse will not function without the temperature sensor.
There are various threads about this scattered about the forum.

Cool. Thanks for the info Stinsy. The plug that i just cut off was a molded one with the fuse holder between the pins. Im pretty sure there isnt anything in the plug cos it was melting hot during charging. However as mentioned in a previous comment i think i have a bad connection in the wall socket and this is where the heat is coming from.

 

just check how many wires in the lead where you cut it. 3 is fine anymore and you have an EVSE with a thermistor in the plug.
Overheating sockets may well be the copper / brass contacts loosing their spring and not getting a good contact. The other common problem is the wires coming slightly loose, the screw terminals do need considerable force when tightening, a torque screwdriver is recommended these days.

 

Yeah just the 3 wires luckily. Thx for your help
much appreciated.

 

I used a granny charger for 8 months until I got my Hypervolt, OK so it was only running for four hours at a time but had no problems at all, and I used an extension lead. Provided your plugs and any leads are top quality and you check them they are not a problem. However a proper charger is recommended.

 

Do EVSE never go wrong?

 

Have you seen what happens to early PodPoints when the terminals get hot on the contactor or rcd?

 

Oak leafs usually shrivel and fall of the tree in autumn.

 

I can actually understand how people without electrical knowledge might logically assume that a household 13A socket would be fine for plugging in a constant, long-term load of 13A or less. It's pretty shabby that British standards are so poor in this regard!

 

13A is the rating isn’t it, any UK supplied EVSE (Granny) with a genuine CE mark (and not a similar Chinese Export one) will operate at max 10A.

I’ve seen 13A ones on Amazon etc, not good nor legal as far as I can tell.

Don’t want to get into the rights, wrongs or risks around prolonged 10A ‘Granny charging’, but I’m reassured that overheating plug sockets seem to be a rare occurrence, EVSE or not.

 

I used my granny charger at 6A while on holiday in a double socket outlet. When first plugged in the socket/plug got warm quite quickly. Moved the plug to the other side of the socket and no noticeable rise in temperature. I would not trust an 13A socket unless It was checked regularly for temperature rise, and even then would not use overnight unless it was outside so that if it caught fire it would not take the house with it. Risk might be low but consequences could be devastating.

For regular use, there is also the need to ensure the other EVSE requirements are met (PEN protection etc). If you are going to pay for a properly installed 13A socket for EV charging you may as well have a proper EVSE installed and have the benefit of faster charging and increased safety.

 

For regular use, there is also the need to ensure the other EVSE requirements are met (PEN protection etc).

Genuine question, as an amateur, is the PEN thing a clear requirement now in regs, or is it a grey area?

I ask as a niece of mine has purchased a new build house that was pitched as having ‘EV Charge Socket Included’ but all they’ve fitted is a 13A weatherproof socket on its own cable back to the Consumer Unit. It’s labelled ‘EV Charge Point’ but is clearly just a high quality socket sharing the house earthing arrangement.

 

Lol, the Miele vacuum plug gets hot in use on any socket in the house whereas the plug on the 'granny' charger stays stone cold when used for the five hour off peak slot.

Which is safer?

[Note, the Miele has been relegated to car duties and the 'granny' is back in it's bag as I only used it until a new EVSE cable got delivered]

 

Lol, the Miele vacuum plug gets hot in use on any socket in the house whereas the plug on the 'granny' charger stays stone cold when used for the five hour off peak slot.

Which is safer?

[Note, the Miele has been relegated to car duties and the 'granny' is back in it's bag as I only used it until a new EVSE cable got delivered]

The car charger running at 10A should be a worse case. If that stays stone cold so should the vacuum cleaner. Most long term connected household devices are used at low power, high power devices tend to be used for short periods, so you get away with a bit of heating.

 

My twopenneth…

 

A picture is worth a thousand words!

 

On the Pen Fault problem, there has been a requirement since the late 60's when the PEN was mentioned in the 14th regulations. The requirement was to add an earthrod to any outdoor metal item connected to the mains where a PEN fault could occur. In reality this at the time meant metal greenhouses and other buildings. It is still in force and if you walk round any industrial park you will find earth points along the edge of the metal sheds.

Broken PEN

Don’t panic, this article is not about broken ballpoint pens, it is concerning broken PEN conductors in PME earthing arrangements.

electrical.theiet.org

However it also applies to cars and originally an earthrod was specified with early chargepoints. As the installers at the time ignored the requirement this was beefed up so now it has it own bit in the current regs. And still folks ignore this 50 years on It may be uncommon but it does occur,