That battery degregation is worrying as they say it's got a 95kwh pack so already lops a good chunk off top and bottom to reduce the usable by about 11% give or take.
I'd agree with your assessment on the HPC causing a lot of this as it was also noted on the last Richard Symons YouTube video comparison when compared against the likes of an M3LR that the charging speed stays high for a very long time where as the Tesla drops down much earlier on.
I'm guessing some of the rapid speed is maybe that Audi have decided their BMS can be pushed harder to keep things in check, but then you have the likes of Nissan & Tesla that know the tech very well and know how the charging curve should be to help the batteries live a while.

 

Yes - it's a 95kWh pack, of which I think about 84.4kWh is useable in the earlier models. Model year 2020 on apparently released a little more capacity, to about 86kWh, and also made alterations to the braking system which together gave a stated 5-7% range improvement. My calculations when the car was new certainly confirmed the c84kWh capacity, and using the same methodology now gives the 80kWh number...so I am reasonably confident in my conclusions. I was very surprised to see charge rates of around 80-90kW at 80% capacity, and 40-50kW at 99-100%...however good the battery cooling system, that has to take its toll.

 

Any LEAF owner would accept 5% battery degregation after that distance if charging like that. There's an element of both the high rate of consumption and high mileage causing the need for rapid charging. The remaining 95% is more than sufficient for the school run that most big Audi seem to end up on.
Interesting that all of the niggles are not related to the EV elements (I'm not counting the charge point door as that's similar to an ICE fuel cover) but presumably are "to be expected" with any big Audi.

 

Sure you're right...however, I've got another two years of needing to do the big miles so I'm interested to see if it stabilises or continues to degrade. My longest very regular journey is a 210 mile round trip which I can just do in most conditions with very careful driving. I suspect that won't last as, due to the excellent GOM, I am already no stranger to Mr Turtle. Which in itself, of course, will cause further degradation...so I may need to accept the inevitable and revert to charging en route. Just adds further time, though, as they're already long days.

And yes, the problems have all been unrelated to the EV system which, efficiency aside, is excellent. More of an Audi problem than anything else, it seems.

And finally...the car may well finish its days on the school run - but it won't be on my watch!

 

the only comparison I have is with Tesla's, typically they have faster degradation at the start and then they smooth out, I wonder whether that will be the case with the Audi also.

Also with Tesla's its typically accepted that frequent DC charging will affect the battery so despite you helping the battery the state of charge you keep it in the DC charging will probably affect the battery.

Having driven the Audi I think its a brilliant car, but my local dealer didn't have a clue when I spoke to them about it, and the range ultimately out me off,

 

My main worry with the audi is that with that usable capacity vs quote capacity, your already seeing degredation which shouldn't be the case for a while.
the only thing i can summise is that the buffer of 5kwh bottom and top is so that the charging speeds can be kept high, and for a 400v not 800v pack as well im sure we will see some more issues.
Especially as by halfway thru year 2 you'll have waved goodbye to the battery warranty as well

 

Yes it seemed a bit much to me to see degradation so early...however, perhaps 5% is more to do with natural ageing from new...I'll keep an eye on it and report further. Audi state that the battery warranty is 8 years / 100,000 miles so it should last the duration of my lease (just) at my mileage. I've not dug deeply enough to find out exactly what level of performance is warrantied - probably 70% which would be verging on unusable for my requirements. Altogether, glad I've got it through a company car scheme.

Interestingly, due to covid cash constraints the company car scheme is being discontinued so I'll be on my own for the next one. I really don't want to lease personally, mainly due to my high mileage but also because I just don't like the idea of not owning the car...perhaps an old fashioned attitude, but I really don't want to be worried about any minor cosmetic issues etc. However, I also don't want to sink money into a battery that will degrade significantly. Looks like BMS on other modern high range cars ... for example, eNiro and Kona ... is much more conservative so maybe less of an issue. Or perhaps I'll treat myself to the new Kia whichever presumably has a higher voltage pack...?

 

The buffers probably stay the same, the loss is out of the usable section, not the buffers. The first 5% loss is often faster than later losses. Seen this with multiple electric cars and with other batteries.

Charging and discharging speed depends on battery chemistry and geometry. A dark art, I know enough to know I don't know anything about batteries. Batteries can be chemically optimized to energy/mass or for power/mass and for lots of other things as well. I guess that Audi has chosen more power and less energy... But label that a guess. "C rate" is one way of expressing this. A type of cell we used in a portable equipment design could be charged at 0.8C up to half full, and less above that. Other types cells can be charged at 10C. It seems reasonable that Audi might have a battery expert that would understand this better than random people on the Internet.

I love the car, but it has had more issues in 2 years than the LEAF had in 6 years.

 

Thanks for that review of the Audi as it was on my shortlist of two and one reason I went for the I-Pace instead was that I watched a youtube video from an Audi Etron owner and he had a nightmare trying to get his car put right with some faults the same as you have had. I do not know if his faults were all the same as the ones that you have had but they sound similar. His videos are worth watching for anyone that is thinking about buying this car. Lovely car to drive though and I thought it was slightly better than the Jaguar in some ways. Just tried to look at those videos again and they have been taken down for some reason may be the owner was got at for putting them up. Someone has copied them though and put them up on this different channel that does not seem to have any connection to the original

 

Yes I saw those videos - some valid points, but he didn't half moan about some very minor things as well!

I had a long test drive (800 miles 😜) in an iPace First Edition. I did actually order one, but did have some reservations as I'd experienced flaky CCS charging during my testing, the GOM was a work of fiction and I was very unimpressed with the responsiveness of the infotainment. Went like stink though and was a really nice looking car. The car scheme then slashed the lease rates on the eTron, presumably due to better anticipated residual values, so I cancelled the order and went for that instead. No particular regrets, although I've had my fair share of issues with the eTron. Having said that, I do miss the way the iPace leapt off the line - felt like it wanted to pull your face off, whilst the eTron has more of a gentle shove in the back sort of delivery. Looking forward to trying the Kia EV6 GT.

 

As the saying goes, if it flies, floats or is an Audi - rent it!

 

as a very early adopter,

@electricdriver when you say very early adopter is this your first EV if you did what did you have, and how does it compare.

 

Yes first EV - I meant early adopter of the eTron, it was one of the earlier deliveries in the UK. Driven hybrid but not full electric before, the changes in the company car taxation rules meant a long-held ambition to go fully electric could finally be realised.

 

Interested to know what the sunroof leak was eventually traced to and how it was fixed? Audi, and indeed the VAG group are utterly incapable of making a panoramic sunroof that don't leak. Widespread across Volkswagen and Škoda platforms too, etc.

I've now repaired the panoramic sunroof on my A4 Allroad 5-6 times over the last couple of years. That means disabling the battery (due to curtain airbag risk), removing parts of the interior trim (the interior grab handles are a pain without the right tool), A-pillars, roof lining pulled down slightly, etc. The drain pipes either leak or it's the actual sunroof cassette. It's made by Webasto for Audi, so could be the same in the eTron? That's down to using aluminium and plastic composite materials that are sandwiched together with a sealing mastic. Obviously, add in the heat of summer and a cold winter and you have a leak as soon as it goes out of warranty. Replacing the cassette is a huge job so I opted for a fibre-glass repair initially that I eventually removed and switched to a flexible Sikaflex 291 marine sealant. You can also use Captain Tolley's too that uses capilliary action to seal hair-line cracks.

 

I think I told them it was either the charge port or the sunroof...the misdirection as, confusingly, the problem first appeared after the offside charge port was replaced after that had failed. I don't have much of the technical detail other than that it was a leak in the area around the wind deflector at the front of the panoramic sunroof. It has certainly made me think twice about having a car with a sunroof as a second hand / out of warranty purchase. It has held up ok since it was finally repaired, but it took two dealers to sort it. I refused to return the car to the first after they had had the car for two separate two week periods, claimed to have fixed it both times, and returned it with an airbag warning fault on the second occasion.

 

More on how it works here:

 

Love Audi's had a few over the years. They were all fantastic cars but have to agree the dealers are universally terrible, it's the main reason I stopped buying them.

5% battery degradation in 18 months does not sound great. I suppose high miles for an EV but that's over 3% loss a year.

It's unusual for an Audi to have that many relatively serious defects. Leaking roof on a car costing that much or any car really is not acceptable. Shame they are great looking cars, I thought they would be bullet proof like most other Audi's.....

 

@electricdriver shame you don't have a comparison. I think your Audi is doing ok they do seem to have some major issues but have you seen this post, seems like your not alone.
Bought/Own and ID.4 now I have a loan ID.3 !

 

you get in a car and drive from full to empty on a flat calm road at exactly 60mph.

Next day you get in and the car guesses your range based on doing that trip again (which is what most of them do). But today you’re doing a hill climb for funsies. Steep hills, lots of acceleration. Now you only get half the range its telling you.

Both systems will be accurate or inaccurate based on how stable your driving is. Tesla starts from a simple EPA range - so the range in miles is always the same (unless you use the nav so it knows where you’re going to analyse the route). Others use past driving history to try and be more accurate. But that has its own limits.


Personally I would like an option for Tesla to replace the miles with a guess based on previous mileage (it has that in the energy graph to estimate your wh/m). I’d also quite like a smaller trip display so I can still have the map up while seeing the prediction. But it is what it is and neither system is completely accurate if it doesn’t know where you’re going

 

I find it amusing when people compare the reliability of Jaguar and an Audi especially models that have just rolled off the lines and not got many user miles under their belts.
iPace TSB's were an almost weekly event at one point and the etron ones i got bored of just as quickly when i got the notifications for both in my mailbox

 

Just signed up to research the eTron 55 Sportback, a forum search found this thread.

Interesting comments.

Though not sure why there is a comparison between the Model 3 and the eTron.

Test drove an eTron 55 Sportback, Tesla Model 3 and an iPace.

To be honest the eTron rides nearly as well as an S Class Mercedes on its air suspension.

Have driven a Model S previously and as there are no more RHD ones since 2020 any for sale were older and not worth buying, hence the back to back with the eTron

After test driving all three back to back my daughter is going for the eTron.

She may well be biased after 4 years in her Q2 but the quality of the interior and the smooth drive sold her on the eTron.

I will be seriously looking at used Model 3 in a few months to keep some miles off my 745Le.

I did consider looking at an eTron 50 but the reduced range would just be a pain, they are cheap though.

Never even considered a Model X, again no RHD since 2020 and those available were (IMHO) very over priced.

Will be interesting to see how the EV journey progresses over the next couple of years

 

@JustinL70
Welcome…you have responded to a 3.5 year old post…but still welcome