Hi,

Recently purchased a Citroen e-C4 E-series with a 54kwh battery from Arnold Clark. Car sale and car items led is excellent, first EV.

They recommended their sister company Bumblebee EV to fit the charger, they offer an EVEC charger which is fine but I paid slightly more and got a Ohme Epod.

The charger was installed and a day later I received an email from the DNO energy network to advise the charger can’t be installed until unlooping and a cut-out upgrade is done. They are visiting on the 3rd of September.

Nevertheless the charger has already been installed but without the CT load balance clamp, it’s still in the box but the me installer kept load balance on so charge is limited. They couldn't and haven’t yet provided an explanation.

Their electrician has taken a feed from the main switch inside our existing CU by sticking the wiring in the same holes as the meter tails within it and put that into a separate surge protected CU for the charger. This seems unsafe and I understand the meter cable feed should be 25mm2 and they should be split with one set going to out original CU and another to the new CU. The meter tails are not 25mm2, possible only 10mm2 or 16mm2 but they are feeding both full house and the EV CU. Again this seems unsafe.

I’ve not received a certificate to confirm the installation is up to standard and been given no explanation of why the electrician broke the main fuse security wire (it’s not been replaced) without permission from the DNO or didn’t upgrade the meter tails, recognise the my needed upgraded or indeed wait until the DNO did their checks.

I’ve not received a receipt for the purchase nor have a been given details the warranty has been activated.

I have sent a email of complaint which has been acknowledged by their Operations Director and I await full response.

Has anyone else had issues with Bumblebee EV? The do use contractors and are quick to take payment and they seem to have lack any controls and have a cavalier attitude to safety. I’ll also be contacting Trading Standards to.

I am considering requesting they remove what they’ve installed and refund and I’ll use Octopus instead. Also thinking of a heat pump and/or battery storage to so everything needs to be safe and to up to standard.

Welcome.

It seems as if your installer has been conservative and ensured that, until the DNO unloop the supply, the charge point can only allow the charger (in the car) to draw up to 16A. This seems sensible. Not installing the CT clamp is an effective way of preventing the charge point from overloading the looped supply, as load limiting kicks in right at the very top limit for some looped supplies, again this seems conservative, but sensible.

When you say "sticking the wiring in the same holes as the meter tails" can you please elaborate? Perhaps a photo? If the meter tails go to a Henley block and the house tails plus the charge point supply are connected to that same Henley block then that is a very safe and competent way to make the connection. If there are two sets of tails going into the meter that is definitely unsafe and needs immediate rectification.

The meter tails may get changed after the DNO has unlooped and uprated the supply, as it stands they are protected by the existing main fuse, with its lower current rating, so are perfectly safe. When the supply is upgraded there may or may not be any need to change the tails. If the fuse is, say, 80A, then 16mm² is fine. If the fuse is uprated to 100A then the tails need to be upgraded to 25mm² when that happens.

I really haven't a clue why you seem to want to make a complaint, as from what you've written it seems as if this installation may well be fine, if a bit conservative in terms of charge point maximum current until such time as the DNO get their act together. Installers have no control over the timescale of the DNO, and although some DNOs respond quickly, many do not.

 

Hi,

Recently purchased a Citroen e-C4 E-series with a 54kwh battery from Arnold Clark. Car sale and car items led is excellent, first EV.

They recommended their sister company Bumblebee EV to fit the charger, they offer an EVEC charger which is fine but I paid slightly more and got a Ohme Epod.

The charger was installed and a day later I received an email from the DNO energy network to advise the charger can’t be installed until unlooping and a cut-out upgrade is done. They are visiting on the 3rd of September.

Nevertheless the charger has already been installed but without the CT load balance clamp, it’s still in the box but the me installer kept load balance on so charge is limited. They couldn't and haven’t yet provided an explanation.

Their electrician has taken a feed from the main switch inside our existing CU by sticking the wiring in the same holes as the meter tails within it and put that into a separate surge protected CU for the charger. This seems unsafe and I understand the meter cable feed should be 25mm2 and they should be split with one set going to out original CU and another to the new CU. The meter tails are not 25mm2, possible only 10mm2 or 16mm2 but they are feeding both full house and the EV CU. Again this seems unsafe.

I’ve not received a certificate to confirm the installation is up to standard and been given no explanation of why the electrician broke the main fuse security wire (it’s not been replaced) without permission from the DNO or didn’t upgrade the meter tails, recognise the my needed upgraded or indeed wait until the DNO did their checks.

I’ve not received a receipt for the purchase nor have a been given details the warranty has been activated.

I have sent a email of complaint which has been acknowledged by their Operations Director and I await full response.

Has anyone else had issues with Bumblebee EV? The do use contractors and are quick to take payment and they seem to have lack any controls and have a cavalier attitude to safety. I’ll also be contacting Trading Standards to.

I am considering requesting they remove what they’ve installed and refund and I’ll use Octopus instead. Also thinking of a heat pump and/or battery storage to so everything needs to be safe and to up to standard.

I've had a number of chargepoint installs prior to the DNO being informed.
My ePod prompted the DNO man to come and tell me they would be unlooping me in December or January at the latest. Nothing has been done.

Your account seems a little confusing and I can't quite picture what the installer has left you with but you'll be limited to charging at 16 amps rather than 32.

From your meter or hopefully isolation switch you should have some blocks which split the tails, one set of tails to your house CU, the other which are going to usually be much smaller would go to the new mini CU it only needs to handle 32A but should have protective devices labelled as 40A and include an RCBO and SPD. At least you should be able to get a decent picture or two of the contents of the new CU and the arrangement of tails feeding it and where they come from.

It's quite possible that something is iffy enough to complain about it but it's difficult to say with any certainty if things are a complete bodge or not. A picture should provide some certainty.

Gaz

 

Hi,

Thanks for the response which provides some re-assurance.

The installer has opened the main consumer unit and on the main power switch the meter tails enter the switch at the bottom, on the top of the switch the supply cables exit, they have installed the feed to the EV consumer from there. See picture, cables exit via the bottom of the main CU and go to the EV CU. Does this look to be to standard or safe?

The EV charger was installed prior to the DNO getting it touch. It was only 9 days between paying for the installation to the charger being fitted, the DNO got in touch 1 day after the installation. The didn’t wait for the DNO response and they haven’t contacted me back despite trying to contact them.

There is no separate isolation switch so they broke the seal on the cut out fuse, this hasn’t been replaced. The cabling they’ve installed to the Ohme charger is 3 core, no separate cabling has been installed to fit the CT clamp so seems it’s been completed missed, I did call to ask why and but await a response. The ohme app shows load balancing on and it set to 32amp. There was no discussion with the installer on the day about this.

Installation took about 1hr.

 

Hi,

Thanks for the response which provides some re-assurance.

The installer has opened the main consumer unit and on the main power switch the meter tails enter the switch at the bottom, on the top of the switch the supply cables exit, they have installed the feed to the EV consumer from there. See picture, cables exit via the bottom of the main CU and go to the EV CU. Does this look to be to standard or safe?

The EV charger was installed prior to the DNO getting it touch. It was only 9 days between paying for the installation to the charger being fitted, the DNO got in touch 1 day after the installation. The didn’t wait for the DNO response and they haven’t contacted me back despite trying to contact them.

There is no separate isolation switch so they broke the seal on the cut out fuse, this hasn’t been replaced. The cabling they’ve installed to the Ohme charger is 3 core, no separate cabling has been installed to fit the CT clamp so seems it’s been completed missed, I did call to ask why and but await a response. The ohme app shows load balancing on and it set to 32amp. There was no discussion with the installer on the day about this.

Installation took about 1hr.

That's complete and utter crap work! Dangerously so.

I can fully understand your concern now, get the installer back immediately to correct it. If you can find which of the Part P cartels they belong to then call them immediately and send them that photo, along with a request that they suspend the installer's accreditation until such time as they can prove by re-assessment that they are competent.

I'm frankly astonished that anyone calling themselves an electrician has done that, it's simply appallingly bad.

 

Bumblebee EV charger installers

Probably the bees couldn't lift any thicker cable.

 

I’m no electrician but did do some research on how the EV chargers are installed, what to expect installation wise and to help us with which charger to purchase. Being our first EV this forum has really helped with this.

This started with us noticing the load balance clamp was still in the box and the charger working on a lower amps along with the next day receiving the email from the DNO.

Hoping for a response from them early next week, hopefully they’ll put things right.

 

I’m no electrician but did do some research on how the EV chargers are installed, what to expect installation wise and to help which charger to purchase. Being our first EV this forum has really help with this.

This started with noticing the load balance clamp was still in the box and the charger working on a lower amps along with the next day receiving the email from the DNO.

Hoping for a response from them early next week, hopefully they’ll put things right.

Hopefully you've paid by credit card.

For the sake of it you might as well supply pics of the mini CU and its contents along with the connection to the Ohme.

The more which is identified as wrong now the better chance you'll have at getting it corrected.

If it were me I'd put a section 75 claim in with the credit card right away and I'd be speaking with Arnold Clark along the lines of how dare they recommend a cowboy firm to install the chargepoint and suggesting they contact all their customers who took up the recommendation with a view to having them (Arnold Clark) pay for a comptent electrician to go and document the state of the installations, decommissioning anything dangerous and for them to put pressure on bumblebee to send a thind party contractor round to rectify all their crap.

Gaz

 

Thanks everyone.

I did pay by credit card, a section 75 claim is something I didn’t think of so I’ll get that done now and I’ll also send the details to Ohme.

Understand that’s things can go wrong and for this the safety aspect was my main concern. I have no certificate confirming installation is up to the required standards and no details of the warranty being registered with Ohme. I am more than happy for them to arrange to remove the installation.

The electrician is showing as SSIP and Select registered and I’ve found the electrician’s details to confirm on those websites so I’ll get the issue reported to them to.

 

As far as I’m aware no testing took place at all, electrician was here at 9am and away by 10am. We to asked to download the Ohme app and plug the car in for charging.

We made it easy to fit power cabling through a box section which we opened up that goes direct to the CU.

The Ohme Epod comes with a Wago connecter box with Wago connectors and recommends use of power cable which includes 2 data core or to the use a separate ‘beldon’ type cable and gland and fit to the charger for the CT clamp. The charger is about 3 metres from consumer box.

 

As far as I’m aware no testing took place at all, electrician was here at 9am and away by 10am. We to asked to download the Ohme app and plug the car in for charging.

We made it easy to fit power cabling through a box section which we opened up that goes direct to the CU.

The Ohme Epod comes with a Wago connecter box with Wago connectors and recommends use of power cable which includes 2 data core or the use a separate ‘beldon’ cable and gland for the CT clamp. The charger is about 3 metres from consumer box.

Sounds as if your installer was a bit of a cowboy. Frankly I'd be inclined to name and shame the person that did the work. They were almost certainly sub-contracted to Bumblebee, as from what I can see on their website they are primarily a sales and marketing company that sub-contracts the work out to a number of installers (they seem to be a bit like Check-A-Trade in that respect). Clearly you contracted with Bumblebee, and the buck has to stop with them, but the person responsible for that shoddy workmanship is the installer.

Testing is required and you are entitled to a copy of the EIC (the Electrical Installation Certificate) on request. This is normally lodged electronically now, with the details being filled in and submitted on a phone, tablet or laptop, so not being given a paper copy at the time is pretty normal (not that this is any excuse for the installer's apparently poor work).

Some charge point companies also require a photo of the installation to be submitted by the installer to activate the warranty. Well worth checking if this was done (and frankly I can't see any installer submitting a photo of that CU bodge!).

The EIC includes an implicit statement by the installer that the installation complies with the regulations. On the face of it it looks like that 6mm² charge point supply isn't protected (apart from the main fuse on the incomer). Is there a smaller CU that contains over current and earth leakage protection between those wires in the photo and the charge point? If not then this is extremely unsafe, it'd fall into an EICR Code 1 major defect, one that is "Danger present, immediate remedial action required".

 

Just an update on this.

I made contact with Bumblebee EV and whilst they told me they checked with the CU manufacturer BG who advised them it was safe as they allowed up to 35mm2 meter tails, they did agree that I wasn’t happy with the install.

This wasn’t just meter tails though, it was the EV power supply connection to but nevertheless I didn’t need to argue this as they agreed to get the electrician to revisit.

Meter tails are now split using Henley blocks and an all new power cable with extra cores installed to fit the CT clamp. Also requested and received EIC an to.

The DNO has visited to. House has a 80AMP mains fuse but we’re on the end of a looped supply so will be un-looped in a 2-3weeks.

Thanks to everyone for your advice to get this checked.