Has it been charged to 100% on an AC charger recently?

Early ones are showing battery issues unfortunately. Does Soul EV spy have a state of health readout?

 

It had been charged to 100% before I collected it today. It was showing 80miles at that time. I then took it to a rapid 60 mile away and charged to 94%. And that was when I took it to 4%.

Soul spy puts the state of health at 88%

 

88% isn't low enough to claim on the warranty. The BMS update might help anyway.

Also check tyre pressures and make sure they're ok.

I had a 2016 27kwh Soul when new and it wasn't that much better. It's shaped like a breeze block so higher speeds do hammer the range a lot.

 

88% isn't low enough to claim on the warranty. The BMS update might help anyway.

Also check tyre pressures and make sure they're ok.

I had a 2016 27kwh Soul when new and it wasn't that much better. It's shaped like a breeze block so higher speeds do hammer the range a lot.

That's the thing. I'm doing over 4miles/kwh. So should be getting better range than just about 70miles in summer. Thats less than what I'm getting in my wife's leaf. (24kwh at 82% soh, I get 90 easy. Same journeys)

I've seen 27kw souls mention they are getting above 100 miles at the same miles per kwh that I'm getting. What I dont know is if they have had this BMS update. And if they have, how much did it improve the reading and handling of the battery.

My hope is it helps. But if not, I'm not sure where to go.

 

If it doesn't help then unless the state of health is 70% or below it won't be fixed under the warranty. If it's just recently been bought from a trader then I'd think rejection is probably the most sensible course of action.

 

The displayed range is a guesstimate, based on a number of factors including past performance, and is heavily influenced by ambient temperature. The values improve as the ambient rises, but with a considerable lag, which suggests it is heavily influenced by back history, i.e. it is stale ,and therefore pessimistic in Spring, and optimistic in Autumn.

The m/kWh is only valid if reset at the start of an assessment. If not reset, it too is influenced by past performance, although perhaps not as strongly as the guess-o-meter (GOM). So, if the past history includes slower driving, the unreset value will be optimistic.

A BMS update will clear the back history, and replace it with default data, so the GOM will appear to have improved greatly. It will take quite a few cycles to reduce to more valid values. This is important if you are complaining to the KIA dealer about range. In fact, the company instruction on this topic tells dealers to access and report the saved BMS data before applying any update, for this very reason, but a lot of dealers do the update, show you the "improved" range, and tell you they've fixed it. To be fair, they probably believe it, because they don't read the instructions.

 

I get the GoM is an estimate. I accept that. What I'm concerned about is that I went from pretty much full to empty only physically getting 70 miles. At this point it was well into turtle mode and had limited my power. When from what I read and can calculate, it should be minimum of 90

I had reset my trip, and miles/kw calculator before setting off. And that had managed 4 constant on every trip since I had it.

I realise you may not have had much choice must I really would suggest not running the battery quite that low, I've tried to not run mine below 15%.

Personally, I'd reset the trip and I'd do a couple of 80% charges and run it down to 30% and see what kind of range you get, doubling this figure will give you an idea of the range you can expect, also check the battery cell map at 30 / 80% and during charge to see if you have any especially low cells. FInally I'd then do a slow (I did it on a granny cable but a 7kW should be fine) charge from just under 20% up to 100%, this should properly balance the pack and the SOH will be updated, (again, try and check / monitor the cells during charging if possible).

If there are no red flags with the cells you may find the SOH remains the same or rises slightly, if it drops and you had some cells showing high voltage difference you could have an issue with the pack. If it seems ok, do a test again, I'd say in the current weather down to about 20% you should be able to manage around 90 miles on town / A roads..

A BMS update as suggested will reset the GOM meaning you'll have around 127 miles on the GOM, but I doubt an update will resolve a potential problem with a cell or the pack.

The dropping to 4% was intentional. Ive done this with my other EVs in the past so I know what I can get range wise in a worst case scenario.

I'll check on the battery cell map as it's charging today. Not exactly sure what I'm looking for, so I'll post screenies as I go.


Btw just want to say I do appreciate all the replies. If it seems I'm being short with anyone I apologize. Just a little stressed.

 

I realise you may not have had much choice must I really would suggest not running the battery quite that low, I've tried to not run mine below 15%.

Personally, I'd reset the trip and I'd do a couple of 80% charges and run it down to 30% and see what kind of range you get, doubling this figure will give you an idea of the range you can expect, also check the battery cell map at 30 / 80% and during charge to see if you have any especially low cells. FInally I'd then do a slow (I did it on a granny cable but a 7kW should be fine) charge from just under 20% up to 100%, this should properly balance the pack and the SOH will be updated, (again, try and check / monitor the cells during charging if possible).

If there are no red flags with the cells you may find the SOH remains the same or rises slightly, if it drops and you had some cells showing high voltage difference you could have an issue with the pack. If it seems ok, do a test again, I'd say in the current weather down to about 20% you should be able to manage around 90 miles on town / A roads..

A BMS update as suggested will reset the GOM meaning you'll have around 127 miles on the GOM, but I doubt an update will resolve a potential problem with a cell or the pack.

 

Don't reset it between journeys. Let it run for a while. There is a trip display with the miles per kWh for each trip anyway. Might be worth a scroll through there to see what it's been doing before you had it as it's not always reset properly.

 

On the journeys before I had it, they were all short trips with miles/kw at 3.9-4.1
Nothing below 3.9

 

So currently the car is at 29%.
This is the cell map for this time.
However I have also noticed that under the "energy and power" part of the soul spy. The battery soc display/actual/prec numbers are well off.

From what I read else where. If the prec number is below what the actual charge is, then that's an indication of some bad cells.

I'll let it get to full and check again.

 

So currently the car is at 29%.
This is the cell map for this time.
However I have also noticed that under the "energy and power" part of the soul spy. The battery soc display/actual/prec numbers are well off.

From what I read else where. If the prec number is below what the actual charge is, then that's an indication of some bad cells.

I'll let it get to full and check again.

Three cells seems to have 20mV lower voltage even though you have balanced the pack recently.

if you are able, check how much lower the voltage of those three cells goes (versus the others) while driving, as the difference will then be greater.

Thus, you might see if you have 1-3 inferior cells that limits the range. If the voltage difference doesn’t get (much) greater than that then this is no issue.

 

The author of SoulEV Spy has stated that he does not know what the "prec" value represents, so unless someone else can explain it, I would pay it no attention.

As far as the cell map goes, there does not seem to be any sign of a problem - mine looks similar, and the SOH is 100% with 149 on the GOM last summer. I'm not going to do another 100% charge just to repeat the measurement.

 

Agree, although I assume yours is the 30kWh version..? I'd do the 19-100% charge, recheck SOH and range..

 

This is with the car finished charging at 100%>
I'm guessing them red cells are not good?
Also. I still don't know if this means anything. But the difference between display charge / actual charge and I think precise charge is quite different.

I will attempt to get some screens while driving my 30 mils commute tomorrow morning.

 

This is with the car finished charging at 100%>
I'm guessing them red cells are not good?
Also. I still don't know if this means anything. But the difference between display charge / actual charge and I think precise charge is quite different.

I will attempt to get some screens while driving my 30 mils commute tomorrow morning.

Wouldn't pay too much attention to the SOC_precise_pct. It's more concerning that there seems to be a fairly wide difference in voltage on some of the cells (the cells can move a little, they were pretty stable when you took the reading?). What is the SOH reading now and what in the min / max deterioration in the BMS page, does the max cell deterioration line up to one of the cells showing low voltage I'd imagine? Did you buy the car recently from a dealer?

 

How does the 394.9 V compare to "known healthy" 100% charged 27kWh batteries? I'm wondering if that could be a factor.

 

I'd be interested to see this too,

 

So what was the range after charging to 100% and how much was remaining after you'd traveled the 22 miles this morning?

 

Range at 100% was showing 80 miles.
Range after my trip was showing 55 miles remaining. Miles/kWh was showing 4.1 for that trip.

EDIT:
Percentage left was at 78%

 

Interesting. If you accept that 22% of the capacity was used for 22 miles, then the full capacity of the battery is 100/4,1 = 24.39 kWh, which makes the SOH 24.39/27 = 90.33%. That is pretty close to the 88% stated by Spy, but should give you 100 miles on the GOM, rather than 80.

Of course, this clashes with your first report, which had you doing 70 miles for 90% capacity. Maybe the BMS is the problem.

What could be revealing would be three legs of (roughly) 22miles, each at 4.1 m/kWh, with observations at each point of the %age remaining

 

Thanks, it does seem that way. Just did another trip of 42 miles. (Home and detour) and the % remaining was at 39%. The miles/kWh at 4.2 And the gom showing 30. Perhaps I was too hasty in thinking there's a problem. But it's booked for a BMS update Thursday. So will keep monitoring.

I may do as you suggested. 22-25 miles trip 3 times. And see where I'm at.

The red cells in soul spy still interest me a bit mind.

 

Thank you for the cell map pics! Very interesting! In new pack there are practically no voltage differences.

I do not think you have any bad cells there. No individual cells stand up in such way. Besides, I noted your last message showing 100->78% SoC giving you 25 mile range (which should match what is expected?)

Interestingly during your drive the modules 1-4 have higher voltages (cells 1-32 etc), modules 5-8 average and modules 9-12 lowest voltages during your drive.
This is how the modules are divided in the pack (4+4+4) and could be explained by temperature differences within the pack, as the pattern is so clear
(Google Kia Soul 27kwh battery pack for videos).

What does look strange is the voltage differences in your “100%” soc screenshot from yesterday. The cell differences are up to
60mV, the whole point of Balancing is to even out the voltage differences. To me this looks like some of the cells do not get fully charged. Especially since the variation is quite random.

I would suggest fully charging the battery using the lowest possible charge power. Possibly Kia service have special chargers for this but I consider it unlikely. Possibly the service could see if the battery management system is working as it should, or check if it is up to date.

looking forward hearing if the low power charge would get you more evenly balanced cell maps and you’d start getting 100+ mile ranges out of your engine!

 

Thank you for the cell map pics! Very interesting! In new pack there are practically no voltage differences.

I do not think you have any bad cells there. No individual cells stand up in such way. Besides, I noted your last message showing 100->78% SoC giving you 25 mile range (which should match what is expected?)

Interestingly during your drive the modules 1-4 have higher voltages (cells 1-32 etc), modules 5-8 average and modules 9-12 lowest voltages during your drive.
This is how the modules are divided in the pack (4+4+4) and could be explained by temperature differences within the pack, as the pattern is so clear
(Google Kia Soul 27kwh battery pack for videos).

What does look strange is the voltage differences in your “100%” soc screenshot from yesterday. The cell differences are up to
60mV, the whole point of Balancing is to even out the voltage differences. To me this looks like some of the cells do not get fully charged. Especially since the variation is quite random.

I would suggest fully charging the battery using the lowest possible charge power. Possibly Kia service have special chargers for this but I consider it unlikely. Possibly the service could see if the battery management system is working as it should, or check if it is up to date.

looking forward hearing if the low power charge would get you more evenly balanced cell maps and you’d start getting 100+ mile ranges out of your engine!

The only way I have to charge right now is a granny at home. So low power charge won't be a problem.

I'll let it charge overnight, and post a soc 100% cell map Tomorrow morning.

The BMS update may well fix the GOM issue, was the car being actively used when you bought it? I wonder if they'd not used it for a while as that kind of range would be from around March time this year..

I'm not entirely sure. But from what I could see it was mostly small trips. 2-4 miles at best. I have no idea how they charged it. But given the 7kw lead is still on zip ties, I'm guessing not with that

 

The BMS update may well fix the GOM issue, was the car being actively used when you bought it? I wonder if they'd not used it for a while as that kind of range would be from around March time this year..

 

The BMS update will clear the historic data and substitute default values. It will take a number of cycles before the GOM and the SOH become realistic.

 

So today's trip. Was 29 miles. Gom at full showing 80. At end showing 57. With 72% battery left.
4.3miles/kWh. So the gom is way off. Which I can accept, knowing I am actually getting the milage from it. So it seems I was perhaps being a drama queen. So I apologize to all and thanks for the help.

BMS update planned will help with the gom calculations I understand that.

Still unsure as to why my first initial trip with the car only got 70 until turtle, but it seems it is doing as intended. Perhaps the from empty to full slow charge helped things a bit.

What is weird aswell though. I live at the top of a hill.
In my old ev, at 100% I would have 0 regen when off to work. Which I understand why, but this soul was definitely getting regen. At least 2-3 bars, with a noticeable feeling.

Does the soul not actually charge to 100% fully to allow some or is something going amis here?

 

So today's trip. Was 29 miles. Gom at full showing 80. At end showing 57. With 72% battery left.
4.3miles/kWh. So the gom is way off. Which I can accept, knowing I am actually getting the milage from it. So it seems I was perhaps being a drama queen. So I apologize to all and thanks for the help.

BMS update planned will help with the gom calculations I understand that.

Still unsure as to why my first initial trip with the car only got 70 until turtle, but it seems it is doing as intended. Perhaps the from empty to full slow charge helped things a bit.

What is weird aswell though. I live at the top of a hill.
In my old ev, at 100% I would have 0 regen when off to work. Which I understand why, but this soul was definitely getting regen. At least 2-3 bars, with a noticeable feeling.

Does the soul not actually charge to 100% fully to allow some or is something going amis here?

Yeah, you'll get regen unlike the Leaf, the 27kWh Soul has a 30.5kWh pack, so even though the BMS limits the capacity left to use, it's still got space to allow regen when full. I've found in mine when charged to 100 or 80% it quickly drops the first percentage, but like you my first mile is downhill, so am back up to 80 or 100% after a mile . As I said before, I'd really try to not run the pack too low, I generally try to keep mine about 20% where possible.

 

That run works out at SOH 89.2%, so consistent with previous values. Your real range under those conditions would be about 103 miles to turtle point.

The actual capacity of the 27 kWh battery is believed to be in the region of 29 kWh, with the margin on the top not being charged when recharging. This is to help longevity. Maybe it is used when regenerating. I, too, live on top of a hill, and have not noticed a lack of regen braking when charged to 100%. I would regard it as poor driveability to unexpectedly find regen was not there.

I have compared some of my records (those with a reset m/kWh value) to the SOH from Spy, and they are all within 2%, so I think the method is reliable.

 

I have a 2015 Soul as well and had many doubts when I got it, see my previous posts. When I got it from Kia (32k miles), it was showing a scary 67 miles on the GOM and now is showing 111 when full, with a/c off. So the GOM takes a while to learn how you drive it etc.

For me your car looks ok health wise. B mode driving seems to be adding some useful miles as well.

 

I have a 2015 Soul as well and had many doubts when I got it, see my previous posts. When I got it from Kia (32k miles), it was showing a scary 67 miles on the GOM and now is showing 111 when full, with a/c off. So the GOM takes a while to learn how you drive it etc.

For me your car looks ok health wise. B mode driving seems to be adding some useful miles as well.

Ah, so it sounds as if your cas was/is identical to mine then. Apart from the milage done. Good to know the gom improved for you. From what ive seen since having it theres no reason mine wont either.

 

Looks like you bought one that I recently enquired about. Apart from this thread how are you finding it?

I had been hoping to find a 2018 model but prices now mean I'm looking at 2016 cars. I'm a little concerned about the available mileage but at the same time 90% of my driving is in town and there are.numerous public chargers should I have issues getting one installed at home.

That said, being a smaller battery presumably granny charging becomes more of an option.

 

So far it's going very well. Little issues with the central locking but that's a different thing.
Range wise, I did the 3 trips of 25 miles with stops in-between as was suggested earlier. And my milage remaining ended up being about 30 miles left with 32% battery. This was while I was using AC too. And not exactly being that economical.

So range wise o think it's perfect for what I need. Looking to get 105-115 depending on how I drive.

As I haven't for a charge point. All I have available is granny. Can take 10+ if I let it get below 20% but I just leave overnight.

 

Although I bought and installed a 32A charger, I find it quite practical to run it at 16A, which means I do not have to worry about what else is being used at the same time, though I would be unlikely to hit 100A (the house limit) even with 32A in use. I usually charge from 20-30% to 70-80%, and that 50% takes about 5hr 10 min. The granny charger does about 10A, so about 8 1/4 hr for 50%. Mine is a 30 kWh car, so a small time reduction for 50% of a 27 kWh model.

I was fortunate to have a double-width space in my consumer unit, needed for the 40A dual-pole RCBO required for the installation.

 

This was the cell map this morning at 100%.
Seems there's still a couple cells varying in voltage a bit. But I don't know if that's acceptable or not.

 

This was the cell map this morning at 100%.
Seems there's still a couple cells varying in voltage a bit. But I don't know if that's acceptable or not.

Looks good, what's your updated SOH now..?

 

Looks good to me. I think those are minor variations.

 

Are you using the latest version of Spy? I originally had the same issue, but updating Spy cured it.

Otherwise, you can get a value from calculation:
After charging, reset the m/kWh (shows "--" when reset). Note the mileage and the battery %age if not 100%. At the next charge note the mileage and the battery %age before charging commences and note the m/kWh. Divide the difference in mileages by the m/kWh to get the kWh consumed. Divide this by (difference in %ages x 0.01). This gives the kWh capacity at 100% charge. Divide that by 27 or 30, depending on battery size, and multiply by 100 to get SOH.

 

Using the latest soul spy.

I tried working it out using your method. But i think i took a wrong turn somewhere..! Somehow ended up with minus numbers. Maths wasnt my strongest subject.

So, before i set off this morning i had 100% showing 97miles
Reset the miles/kwh. And i did 29 miles at 4.3 miles/kwh
This left me with 72% showing 73miles.

I cant fully tell, but it looks as if i can easily get perhaps 105 miles on a full charge.

That looks good to me. I wouldn’t worry about 0.02V differences, but I would definitely charge it to 100% couple of more times to see if the variation goes to zero (for curiosity’s sake). And naturally report the result here.

My guess is that the previous user had not fully charged the battery in a long time and that’s why there were variations between cells and this resulted in lower than expected -range you experienced.

Battery should be fully charged regularly (once a month or so, and after you have driven the battery almost empty) to keep the cells balanced. Generally this should apply to all EV’s/batteries.

Due to my charging and using habbits, i generaly get home after work with about 45-50% left. This was true on my previous EV too. As my overall commute is 60ish miles, i couldnt relly on that to get me to and from work a second time. So i charge overnight back to 100%

Ah ok, shoudldn't take too much longer then. So I assume your GOM is displaying much higher range atm...?

It has the last few days yes. First time i charged to 100% after the update it was showing 100 miles.
This morning, it was showing 97 miles. But as i started driving that jumped to 103 miles.

 

1 mile per 1% isn't really far off. The EPA rating for it was generally what I saw on start up at 100% for a lot of the year.

 

So today's full trip. 62 miles at 4.2kwh.
100% showing 97 miles
41% left showing 39 miles

So if I worked it out correctly. That's 14.7kwh used.
59% used for 62 miles.
14.7/0.59 gave me 24.91. So that's 24.9kwh useable?
Which again if I'm correct puts my SoH at about 91-92%
Which doesn't seem bad to me