[Mjkelly5a]

So today one of the guys has posted on FB his dealer charged him £14 for a 2 litre bottle of the approved blue stuff which is somewhat better that the £75 I was quoted.

I have written to Kia asking for a quote on the actual price we should be paying.


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I refused to let go with Kia and I wanted a formal answer as to what this coolant cost. They’ve been ignoring me so I persisted with tweets and messages.

Here it is. £10.80 per litre

Hi Mick

Our 5 litre bottle of coolant (part number LP040APE05EVK0) is £44.98 + VAT.

We recommend raising your invoice with the Service Manager as the representative for TMS as an independent business.

Kind regards

Kia Customer Service


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[PS54321]

MjKelly, that’s not cheap but not as bad as thought.
Is your level still dropping?

 

[Xinix]

I refused to let go with Kia and I wanted a formal answer as to what this coolant cost. They’ve been ignoring me so I persisted with tweets and messages.

Here it is. £10.80 per litre

Hi Mick

Our 5 litre bottle of coolant (part number LP040APE05EVK0) is £44.98 + VAT.

We recommend raising your invoice with the Service Manager as the representative for TMS as an independent business.

Kind regards

Kia Customer Service


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So how in the name of all that's holy can they charge €700 for changing the coolant when you have 13 litres for some €160 (give or take)? Do they deploy one-off nano robots spun out of graphene and unobtainium to distribute the liquid to all nooks and crannies in the cooling system? Or do they think all their customers are called B. Dover?

 

[Mjkelly5a]

MjKelly, that’s not cheap but not as bad as thought.
Is your level still dropping?

Seems to be stable after 150 miles.


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[prawlin]

Good that the blue stuff appears to be cheaper than was reported (though it’s still quite costly).
There is an interesting German forum thread here which (via Google translate) appears to suggest the Kia blue coolant price has actually been reduced recently........

Kühlmitteltausch nach 36 Monaten

Kühlmitteltausch nach 36 Monaten

www.goingelectric.de

Peter

 

[Greg Elmassian]

$18 for 1 gallon here, guess we are just lucky

 

[Edd Beesley]

Car is only 2 months old. So not filled correctly at the factory, or has it sprung a leak already?

 

[prawlin]

View attachment 137847

Car is only 2 months old. So not filled correctly at the factory, or has it sprung a leak already?

Probably neither. I reckon it will be an airlock bubble in the system that finally burped it’s way out in use. It’s very similar to mine although mine is a bit higher than yours is.
Did you notice if it was showing at the correct level previously or when you first got the car?

Peter

 

[Billy the Kid]

Probably neither. I reckon it will be an airlock bubble in the system that finally burped it’s way out in use. It’s very similar to mine although mine is a bit higher than yours is.
Did you notice if it was showing at the correct level previously or when you first got the car?

Peter

Got my 4+ topped up free by the dealer after only a couple of weeks , it’s trapped air coming to the highest point when pumped around the system.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yeah, pretty much has to be, with all the hand-wringing here and on the other 3 Kia forums I read, the level will jump down and stay there, clearly a bubble, a leak would keep going, simple logic even though all kinds of wild theories about a leak inside the battery itself, etc.

Don't worry, be happy!

Greg

 

[freddym]

Thanks for that. It’s heavy reading! Looks like it was originally developed for cooling fuel cells.

I reckon they have previously had some battery internal coolant leak incidents. Likely resulting in some battery disasters. So they switched to this stuff to mitigate the potentially disastrous outcomes with standard coolants, should such an internal battery leakage occur (conductive).

Peter

The patent relates to a a deionised water/glycol mixture with a special antioxidant/anticorrosion inhibitor, which maintains a lowish conductivity over an extended time period.

 

[Empee]

Just as an aside, we cancelled a Soul EV MY2020 (I know this is the e-Niro forum but it still applies) order earlier this year, purely due to the servicing costs when they were finally revealed to us 2 days before collection. Firstly it was annoying that it was an annual service, but secondly I was really shocked about the service prices. And as you really want to keep that 7 year warranty in order you feel inclined to return to Kia for these services. I still have the paperwork with me. The 4th year was £277.87 and the 6th year- £493. Hopefully cheaper now. This was all down to the "motor or inverter" COOLANT changes. I mean, even the minor services in between were not that cheap too boot. Basically this EV was costing as much as or even more than an ICE car to service, and these prices and new coolant changes were new on this newer model (and not there for the previous Niro or Soul EVs). And remember they will always try charging for other things when the car is with them- eg- "the tread on one of the tyres is near the limit" "brake pads as well" I just felt Kia or Kia UK were trying to maintain their service charges on these new EVs which they know they would otherwise miss out on if they did not charge for something. Anyway lockdown announced soon after and buying a long range EV when we were most likely not going to do any long distance driving for a while, meant we cancelled the order. They (Niro and Soul) are still great cars, but not as cheap to run as they should be. £75 for 2 litres of coolant?! Does it have gold flakes in it?
An EV should not need annual dealer checks or servicing. There is nothing much to check.
Slightly off topic I know. Apologies.
Hope it is all sorted for you in the end.

Is it not the case now that getting a car serviced out-with the dealership network will not invalidate a warranty?
I’ve always returned to main dealers in the past, at least while the car was under warranty but will definitely consider non franchise servicing for our eNiro arriving next month.
Have a very good relationship with a local service centre who I suspect are better qualified and perhaps motivated than the majority of staff at main dealerships. (Brought items to my attention missed by main agent in the past)
Will certainly be discussing it with them.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The patent relates to a a deionised water/glycol mixture with a special antioxidant/anticorrosion inhibitor, which maintains a lowish conductivity over an extended time period.

It also relates to a hydrogen based fuel cell, it never mentions it would be used in an electrical battery pack...

There is nothing in the documentation that refers to a battery vehicle, just a fuel cell vehicle.

Another classic case of the OP of the (patent) link not reading and following, but presenting misleading information... probably innocently, but still wrong.
To be clear, the person who originally posted that link on another thread made the incorrect jump to our cars and batteries...

It does turn out that the organic compounds and the super de-ionized water look similar to the "blue"... really all of this stuff is basically water, a wetting agent, and various anti-corrosion ingredients.

Greg

 

[freddym]

It also relates to a hydrogen based fuel cell, it never mentions it would be used in an electrical battery pack...

There is nothing in the documentation that refers to a battery vehicle, just a fuel cell vehicle.

Another classic case of the OP of the (patent) link not reading and following, but presenting misleading information... probably innocently, but still wrong.
To be clear, the person who originally posted that link on another thread made the incorrect jump to our cars and batteries...

It does turn out that the organic compounds and the super de-ionized water look similar to the "blue"... really all of this stuff is basically water, a wetting agent, and various anti-corrosion ingredients.

Greg

Not quite, the coolant is deionised water plus glycol. Unfortunately glycol degrades and turns acidic unless changed on a time basis or inhibited. The rate of depredation is very temperature dependant, much much less in current battery cooling applications compared to ICE.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So you are telling me that the Blue coolant is de-ionized water (yes, duh) and glycol (yes, really goes without saying).

The distinguishing factors (according to Kia) is the particular OTHER ingredients that supposedly are the reason for changing from orange to blue, and what is mentioned by Kia is the organic components.

We all know that the ethylene (or variant thereof) glycol does degrade over time.

Looks like all the other goofy posts have disappeared... I guess I will have to start quoting them in my posts...

Anyway, yes, all the automotive coolants I have seen so far, red, green, yellow, orange, blue have been mostly water, some glycol derivative, and additives for wetting, anti corrosion, etc.

The blue stuff is made with very high quality de-ionized water and specially selected additives to add an additional feature, low electrical conductivity.

Greg

 

[Ian McVey]

Just as an aside, we cancelled a Soul EV MY2020 (I know this is the e-Niro forum but it still applies) order earlier this year, purely due to the servicing costs when they were finally revealed to us 2 days before collection. Firstly it was annoying that it was an annual service, but secondly I was really shocked about the service prices. And as you really want to keep that 7 year warranty in order you feel inclined to return to Kia for these services. I still have the paperwork with me. The 4th year was £277.87 and the 6th year- £493. Hopefully cheaper now. This was all down to the "motor or inverter" COOLANT changes. I mean, even the minor services in between were not that cheap too boot. Basically this EV was costing as much as or even more than an ICE car to service, and these prices and new coolant changes were new on this newer model (and not there for the previous Niro or Soul EVs). And remember they will always try charging for other things when the car is with them- eg- "the tread on one of the tyres is near the limit" "brake pads as well" I just felt Kia or Kia UK were trying to maintain their service charges on these new EVs which they know they would otherwise miss out on if they did not charge for something. Anyway lockdown announced soon after and buying a long range EV when we were most likely not going to do any long distance driving for a while, meant we cancelled the order. They (Niro and Soul) are still great cars, but not as cheap to run as they should be. £75 for 2 litres of coolant?! Does it have gold flakes in it?
An EV should not need annual dealer checks or servicing. There is nothing much to check.
Slightly off topic I know. Apologies.
Hope it is all sorted for you in the end.

If I understand it correctly the high voltage cabling have a statutory requirement to be inspected annually which is not a quick look its has to be removed and checked for resistance re installed and this needs to be done by a stage 3 engineer.

 

[electricdriver]

So you are telling me that the Blue coolant is de-ionized water (yes, duh) and glycol (yes, really goes without saying).

The distinguishing factors (according to Kia) is the particular OTHER ingredients that supposedly are the reason for changing from orange to blue, and what is mentioned by Kia is the organic components.

We all know that the ethylene (or variant thereof) glycol does degrade over time.

Looks like all the other goofy posts have disappeared... I guess I will have to start quoting them in my posts...

Anyway, yes, all the automotive coolants I have seen so far, red, green, yellow, orange, blue have been mostly water, some glycol derivative, and additives for wetting, anti corrosion, etc.

The blue stuff is made with very high quality de-ionized water and specially selected additives to add an additional feature, low electrical conductivity.

Greg

All sounds a bit snake oil. Not the information above - sure that's all valid. However, having worked with deionised water systems I know that water (or water-based mixes) don't stay deionised for long. In contact with pretty much any sort of material the conductivity will very quickly increase. Without an on-board reverse osmosis system there's no way the conductivity is staying sufficiently low over a four or five year period to meet the alleged requirements here. Whether Kia understand this or not I don't know, but within a few hours at the very most of going in the conductivity will be measurably higher and it won't take long for it not to be that much different from a conventional mix.

If there's been some great advance in chemistry that I've missed, I'll happily be corrected 😉.

 

[David M]

If I understand it correctly the high voltage cabling have a statutory requirement to be inspected annually which is not a quick look its has to be removed and checked for resistance re installed and this needs to be done by a stage 3 engineer.

Do they actually disconnect and remove all the high voltage Cabling? Can't see how they could have done that in the half hour service they did on my E-Niro.

 

[Ian McVey]

Its an annual inspection, that should be carried out they don't have to remove the cable but inspect it and do a resistance check. These High Voltage systems require a lot of attention if you read through the attached document (its in english) it shows the procedure, and those cables can kill you unless treated with respect and correct procedures, its completely different to ICE vehicles

 

[Greg Elmassian]

electricdriver: I agree, although "low conductivity" is really not a requirement for our battery packs, witness that earlier years and apparently some of the 2020's did come with the orange coolant which has no "low conductivity" description.

Like I said, I suppose it sounds like a safety feature, but there are no exposed terminals, i.e. the raw pack is not immersed in the coolant.

Just another way to make money maybe, some "Safety politics"... the change every 3 years is a tipoff, and the fact the battery pack has a 7 year warranty, they do not want to be replacing battery packs for free.

Greg