[EVJourney]

Yes good point, looks like current car is 88hp per tonne, the id3 is 86hp per tonne, so very similar. Can see how the weight affects this, the id3 is heavier for sure.

None of them are 'slow' though. If your car does 80MPH and you can get from 0-60MPH in 8-10 secs, why does it need to go faster?

People obsess over pointless speeds, and acceleration, if it gets you from A to B and back safely and with some form of comfort that is what matters. This was not a dig at you, just the people pointing out about these things, who actually gives a flying fig?

 

[Paul-H]

just let people like things 😂

 

[Briggo]

who actually gives a flying fig?

Me

 

[sidehaas]

None of them are 'slow' though. If your car does 80MPH and you can get from 0-60MPH in 8-10 secs, why does it need to go faster?

People obsess over pointless speeds, and acceleration, if it gets you from A to B and back safely and with some form of comfort that is what matters. This was not a dig at you, just the people pointing out about these things, who actually gives a flying fig?

There are plenty of people for whom a bit of acceleration and fun is more important than comfort. I was certainly in that category until our last house move (since which we live far from any decent roads). I agree that some modern acceleration figures are pretty pointless, but a car able to do 0-60in 6 seconds is much more fun on a B road than one that takes 10.
As said before though, these cars easily out perform their bhp/tonne ratio when compared to an ICE because of the instant torque, combined with rear wheel drive and a good weight distribution. They take off instantly. At higher speed they are a bit weaker but an ID3 Pro performance like ours is still a quick enough car. I was running it alongside a diesel Octavia vrs with about 180bhp for a while and the only difference in driving fun factor was that the Octavia had more steering feel. Both were as quick as each other from a to b, the ID3 quicker off the line.

 

[Bornidentity]

I’m on my second ID3 (someone has to buy them) and I have test driven the Born twice over the last few years. I much prefer the ID3, but we are all different. I find the Born suspension too firm, or some might say that’s what a drivers car feels like. At my age, I prefer the softer ride in the ID3. They have their problems, all of them, but mine have been ok. As for the MG4, I have test driven it twice. It’s ok to drive but it feels like they made it from used baked bean cans.
Good luck with choosing.

I read this reply a few days back and couldn’t understand the “baked beans” comparison. Decided not to ask about it but did mention it to a colleague that’s been in the ID.3, Born and MG4 as we used to car share for the commute to work and he’s been a passenger in all three and driven the Born and MG4.

He said if the MG4 had a VW badge on it nobody wouldn’t question it. He also said he was amazed how well put together the MG4 was and that the thud you get when you close the door was like a Golf advert. He reckons VW is living off its reputation and has become complacent.

I agree with him. There is no way an ID.3 has significantly better build quality than an MG4. Especially not the early ID.3 before they upgraded the door cards and seats compared to later MG4’s.

I think a lot of it is down to perceived quality. A chicken from Waitrose tastes much better than a chicken from Aldi. Even though they come from the same farm, and are packaged in the same factory, but one has Waitrose on the label and costs more.

My MG4 XPower is far better than my Cupra Born V1 was in every way apart from people will perceive it as cheap Chinese crap. To pay the £20k price difference between what I paid for my car new and the Cupra Born VZ (closest equivalent), you need an awful lot of preconceived quality going on!

 

[ICDP_EV]

If you ain’t seeing the build quality shortcuts in an MG4, you ain’t lookin hard enough.

One of the best ways to check build quality is to go check some 2-3 year old used ones. You start to see where the shortcuts were made and the differences in build quality.

It’s all superficial and when I went used car shopping recently the MG4 was fine, but absolutely nothing great at all. The ID.3 was a touch more solid (less rattles) but again nothing special.

It’s like arguing which mediocre give up on life car is the least mediocre

Joking aside, the MG4 is a decent cheaper alternative to the VAGs. If you don’t mind giving money to the CCP.

 

[Briggo]

If you ain’t seeing the build quality shortcuts in an MG4, you ain’t lookin hard enough.

100%

 

[sidehaas]

I read this reply a few days back and couldn’t understand the “baked beans” comparison. Decided not to ask about it but did mention it to a colleague that’s been in the ID.3, Born and MG4 as we used to car share for the commute to work and he’s been a passenger in all three and driven the Born and MG4.

He said if the MG4 had a VW badge on it nobody wouldn’t question it. He also said he was amazed how well put together the MG4 was and that the thud you get when you close the door was like a Golf advert. He reckons VW is living off its reputation and has become complacent.

I agree with him. There is no way an ID.3 has significantly better build quality than an MG4. Especially not the early ID.3 before they upgraded the door cards and seats compared to later MG4’s.

I think a lot of it is down to perceived quality. A chicken from Waitrose tastes much better than a chicken from Aldi. Even though they come from the same farm, and are packaged in the same factory, but one has Waitrose on the label and costs more.

My MG4 XPower is far better than my Cupra Born V1 was in every way apart from people will perceive it as cheap Chinese crap. To pay the £20k price difference between what I paid for my car new and the Cupra Born VZ (closest equivalent), you need an awful lot of preconceived quality going on!

I think the ID3 quality (and mine is a pre facelift model) is very good. The perceived quality is lower because they used all shades of grey and didn't hide the hard plastics as well as in the Cupra (the actual amount is the same) - but that doesn't bother me. It's very well put together. I have only sat in an MG4 briefly but it felt like a knock off ID3, everything copied but a bit less refined. I had the impression there were a lot of early reliability issues too, but they may be in the past now. ID3s have been around for about 4.5 years now and there are relatively few complaints on owner's groups, with no new faults arising particularly for older cars that I'm aware of. I think that's very positive. Arguably the same 2020/21 cars are more reliable now than they were when they were made 4-4.5 years ago because the software is more stable and nothing appears to be wearing out in a bad way.

In terms of ID3 vs Born comfort and handling, I actually think the main difference is that the Born usually comes on 19" tyres, whereas the vast majority of 58/59 kwh ID3s are now on 18s. The only person I've come across on the net who had owned both simultaneously said they drove exactly the same. Stuff about stiffer/lower suspension I actually suspect is false and more about marketing. It may be that a Born is like an ID3 with the sport pack.

 

[scratchyman]

I read this reply a few days back and couldn’t understand the “baked beans” comparison. Decided not to ask about it but did mention it to a colleague that’s been in the ID.3, Born and MG4 as we used to car share for the commute to work and he’s been a passenger in all three and driven the Born and MG4.

He said if the MG4 had a VW badge on it nobody wouldn’t question it. He also said he was amazed how well put together the MG4 was and that the thud you get when you close the door was like a Golf advert. He reckons VW is living off its reputation and has become complacent.

I agree with him. There is no way an ID.3 has significantly better build quality than an MG4. Especially not the early ID.3 before they upgraded the door cards and seats compared to later MG4’s.

I think a lot of it is down to perceived quality. A chicken from Waitrose tastes much better than a chicken from Aldi. Even though they come from the same farm, and are packaged in the same factory, but one has Waitrose on the label and costs more.

My MG4 XPower is far better than my Cupra Born V1 was in every way apart from people will perceive it as cheap Chinese crap. To pay the £20k price difference between what I paid for my car new and the Cupra Born VZ (closest equivalent), you need an awful lot of preconceived quality going on!

So you don't agree with my description? Fair enough. I have also driven all 3 of those cars and also am no VW fanboy, but the MG4 (I have test driven 2) is NOT up to the VW/Cupra build quality. When I drove the MGs, there were problems with both the metal work fitting correctly and the software wouldn't function as required. These were test drive vehicles. Maybe it improved since?

 

[Briggo]

I think a lot of it is down to perceived quality. A chicken from Waitrose tastes much better than a chicken from Aldi. Even though they come from the same farm, and are packaged in the same factory, but one has Waitrose on the label and costs more.

Ah the old myth that everything made at the same factory has the same quality.

Yes two things can be made at the same factory but they use different materials/ingredients. It's not just a label all the time.

 

[Bornidentity]

So you don't agree with my description? Fair enough. I have also driven all 3 of those cars and also am no VW fanboy, but the MG4 (I have test driven 2) is NOT up to the VW/Cupra build quality. When I drove the MGs, there were problems with both the metal work fitting correctly and the software wouldn't function as required. These were test drive vehicles. Maybe it improved since?

They must have improved then. I had an ID.3, Born a MG4 SE and now an XPower and there isn’t much between them build quality wise, certainly not that justifies the price difference.

The software isn’t perfect but the software on the Born was atrocious. The software on the ID.3 was inexplicably better after the first update even though it was earlier and the same platform.

Had absolutely no issues with metal work fitting correctly or paint work on either of the MG4s. Didn’t on the VAG ones either. No rattles or squeaks on the ID.3 but a couple on the Born and a couple on the SE and XPower. The in interior build quality of the SE wasn’t quite as good as the ID.3 but the XPower is on a par with the Born I had.

The only build quality issue that does stick out with MG is the spoiler is a bit loose on the XPower and the source of a rattle but that’s being fixed next week.

 

[Paul-H]

People often conflate build quality with material quality. The cupra has nicer materials but poorer build quality than the id3. The id3 looks subjectively cheaper but it’s built from rocks, it’s very well put together, very solid. I didn't spend long with the mg4 but I don’t recall it being solid like the id3 or having the nice material finish of the Cupra. The main issue for me was the ergonomics of the mg4, I couldn’t get comfortable and the weird little table that has the drive selector on it was close to where my knee wanted to be. It was definately good value but no better value than a mint nearly new cupra with extended warranty. My Cupra lost 13k in the first year so was a bargain as second owner 😂

At the end of the day it’s all subjective stuff but the mg4 didn’t make me feel anything and the Cupra makes me happy in a way the id3 didn’t either. Make a shortlist of reasonable choices and then choose the one your gut wants.

 

[Blurb]

Full disclosure: I just bought a pre-reg Born VZ
So far, other than the increase in hard plastics from my Mk 7.5 Golf GTE, it feels pretty well screwed together. The new 5.0 software is also very good and I would recommend getting these models if your budget will stretch to it.
You can see they've been cost cutting here and there, which worried me a little, but what gave me a warm feeling was when Munro Live recently uploaded their teardown of the APP550 motor powering the VZ and other VAG cars. They were very impressed with the quality of the components and design. When the bits you don't see are that well designed, I can live with lesser plastics in the cabin.
I've not driven an MG4, but sitting in a Trophy model at the showroom it felt decent enough.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

People often conflate build quality with material quality. The cupra has nicer materials but poorer build quality than the id3. The id3 looks subjectively cheaper but it’s built from rocks, it’s very well put together, very solid. I didn't spend long with the mg4 but I don’t recall it being solid like the id3 or having the nice material finish of the Cupra. The main issue for me was the ergonomics of the mg4, I couldn’t get comfortable and the weird little table that has the drive selector on it was close to where my knee wanted to be. It was definately good value but no better value than a mint nearly new cupra with extended warranty. My Cupra lost 13k in the first year so was a bargain as second owner 😂

At the end of the day it’s all subjective stuff but the mg4 didn’t make me feel anything and the Cupra makes me happy in a way the id3 didn’t either. Make a shortlist of reasonable choices and then choose the one your gut wants.

That’s really useful insights, thanks for this. I think I’m holding out for a decent deal on the Born.