First thought: It's quite tidy, but is the gender of the commando plug and socket correct? I can't tell from the pictures. There should never be the possibility of accidentally touching exposed live pins if the vehicle is set to discharge to V2L. The inlet to your RCD socket should look like a caravan inlet at end of a hook-up cable.

i.e. it should look like this:

and the pins should be on the bit that receives power, not what dispenses it.

I'm sure that there will be an actual electrician along in a minute clutching various editions of the regulations who may have other points of view or feedback.

 

Yes the gender of the Commando socket and plug are the correct way round. Good question of course

 

Quite literally breadboarding, hope you didn't get into trouble for using it.

I would bin the white plug which looks quite nasty.

Gaz

 

Dam, beat me to it, lol

 

Christ that plug...

A good idea in principle, but I'd want a professional to install and sign off. What if you burn the house/car down and neither will pay out for bodging it? Also does Kia have any caveat on using third party cables for V2L?

 

Christ that plug...

Good point. I will replace forthwith.

 

Is this a setup that would normally be considered a "suicide cable"?

 

Good question but no it isn’t. A Commando socket supplies the power and a Commando plug receives it. Same arrangement as for a caravan.

 

Interesting that you don’t need the dedicated Kia V2L cable, I’d have thought they’d have chipped it to make sure you can’t use a third party cable - I’m not quite clear on your setup, now it’s been tidied up do you still end up with a socket in the house that you then just plug your dryer into (or anything else you want to run when on peak/power cut?)

 

Has the Mrs noticed where her chopping board went?

What is your solution for earthing/bonding?

 

What is your solution for earthing/bonding?

Out of curiosity what is the solution for earthing/bonding for "normal" use of the V2L? - because from my understanding all @WAH64 has done is made the V2L setup permanently installed in the house (car - cable - socket) and is using it in the same way as if he had dragged the dryer outside and plugged it straight into the car's V2L cable

 

Unless there's an earthing arrangement that's not explained, the RCD offers no protection.

EDIT - I see that @Stinsy has just covered this point

 

Well I am pleased I posted because it sounds like I have created an unsafe arrangement. I will take it out of use and get a qualified electrician to come to advise/correct. I am guessing that if he changes the whole house to a TT earthing system and ties the independent V2L circuit described above to that earth then the system should be safe.

Since I was just replicating an extension lead from V2L I assumed it would be safe. What is effectively being said is that it is not safe to run an extension lead from the EV6 to any electrical item that isn’t double insulated. I find this a bit surprising because the Kia manual is full of warnings but not one about this that I can find.

Also, in my simplistic understanding I had understood that RCDs just reacted to a difference between current in the live and neutral disconnecting when a difference of greater than 30mA detected. I guess the problem is that if the earth and/or neutral of the V2L is at a significantly different potential from the house earth then electric shock is possible. As @Thomas carter says, what happens when using V2L for camping?

 

Well I am pleased I posted because it sounds like I have created an unsafe arrangement. I will take it out of use and get a qualified electrician to come to advise/correct. I am guessing that if he changes the whole house to a TT earthing system and ties the independent V2L circuit described above to that earth then the system should be safe.

Since I was just replicating an extension lead from V2L I assumed it would be safe. What is effectively being said is that it is not safe to run an extension lead from the EV6 to any electrical item that isn’t double insulated. I find this a bit surprising because the Kia manual is full of warnings but not one about this that I can find.

Also, in my simplistic understanding I had understood that RCDs just reacted to a difference between current in the live and neutral disconnecting when a difference of greater than 30mA detected. I guess the problem is that if the earth and/or neutral of the V2L is at a significantly different potential from the house earth then electric shock is possible. As @Thomas carter says, what happens when using V2L for camping?

An RCD requires the supply to be referenced to Earth in order to function. In a normal mains arrangement this is accomplished by the supplier having a connection to Earth at the transformer. So, if you touch a live conductive part, a teeny current flows through you, through the ground, and back to the transformer, missing out the Neutral and RCD resulting in an imbalance that the RCD detects causing it to trip. But your car's V2L has no connection to Earth so there is no return path via Earth and the RCD therefore cannot trip.

In an IT arrangement, you rely on this disconnection to keep you safe (eg if you cannot draw power from the +ve terminal of one 12V battery and the -ve terminal of another because they are not connected). The most common use-case for an IT earthing system is for mission-critical communications or hospital equipment because you don't want an RCD tripping off.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that the system you have installed is "unsafe" but neither can I say with conviction that it is "safe". Certainly the unearthed tumble drier would be in contravention of its manufacturer's instructions and should be earthed in all situations (including IT).

Swapping your whole house to a TT including the V2L circuit seems sensible to me. You need to consider linking the Neutral of your new circuit to earth, maybe via an NER (Neutral Earth Resistor). Possibly there is already a link inside the car (easy to test). All external conductive parts and extraneous conductive parts within your home would be bonded and the equipotential zone maintained.

The problem you'll encounter is finding an electrician who in willing and knowledgable to take this on. The vast majority bang in standard circuits all day every day and any knowledge of the fundamentals or how to interpret the Regs for an unusual situation will have long gone (if it ever existed).

 

Out of interest why does an RCD not offer any protection in this situation, ie no earthing?

 

These days practically all portable equipment is double insulated.

 

Correct. And double-insulated devices make this whole topic irrelevant.

However tumble driers are not double insulated. I don't understand why the first thing everyone seems tt want to power with their car is a tumble drier?

 

Before putting any reliance upon an RCD to prevent electrical shocks when using a V2L adaptor or a portable generator then it is necessary to understand how the supply and subsequent circuits are referenced to earth (whether ground or a virtual earth conductor). If there is no reference to earth then there is no 'live' and 'neutral', merely an AC pair, and touching either electrical conductor whilst grounded is of no consequence; an RCD is neither required nor will it offer any protection. But this doesn't mean that you will not suffer an electrical shock if you somehow touch both conductors.

 

Connecting a local ground rod or buried ground mat for EV charging to anything inside a property that uses a different earthing system is very dangerous. Remember the mains may have failed due to an L to N fault outside the property taking the "earth" in the property close to 240v, so having the washing machine case at 240v while the tumble dryer case is connected to an earth spike at 0v.

 

Correct.

I don't recall anyone suggesting that. However it is a good example of someone with little knowledge making a situation MUCH MORE DANGEROUS while attempting to make it safer.

 

The manual of EV6 specifically says NOT to connect the V2L to washing machines and tumble driers. This is on page 2-13 in my Swedish manual, so it may not be the same page in your manual, but my guess is that the same text is in your manual also. There are quite a few pages written concerning the use of V2L. Please read it, it's for your own safety.

 

Well spotted and thank you for that. I should have found this for myself. It is interesting that Kia say you can use electrical devices up to 16amps but then tells you not to connect to washing machines or dryers. I am guessing it may be because driers in particular can operate at relatively high power for extended periods of time, upwards of an hour continuous. It does mean that I have rather wasted my time but I have learned a lot. thank you.

 

Personally I would install a 3-way switch at your house's main board that switches between V2L input / grid input / no input and then use the house's existing MCB/RCD setup.
The only thing you need to add is a an earth connection between the car and the house, so they are on the same potential.
You may also want to add surge protection to avoid that lightning falling on or near your car fries all your home electronics.
You also need to ensure that your inverter output is very good, it's already a struggle for solar inverters that are purposely made units, the installation of voltage and frequency monitoring relay is mandatory for grid inverters. The day your V2L fries one or several of your appliances, you're going to wish you had checkd that beforehand.

I also wonder how your V2L inverter is going to handle switching on and off major loads, inverters are typically quite sluggish and not that good at instantaneous precision control. With solar inverters, it is often recommended to use a 300mA main RCD rather than a 30mA RCD to avoids constant tripping, and then use 30mA RCD's for wet zones in the house.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a 30mA RCD trip every time major loads are switched off as residual current coming from the V2L looks for an exit path.

If you have solar I would think well before messing around with using V2L as V2H, it adds another layer of complexity on how the two systems interact.

If V2H is your main purpose for buying an EV, buy an EV and charger purpose-made for the use rather than trying this kind of gimmicks and end up hurting someone or burning the house.

 

Personally I would install a 3-way switch at your house's main board that switches between V2L input / grid input / no input and then use the house's existing MCB/RCD setup.
The only thing you need to add is a an earth connection between the car and the house, so they are on the same potential.
You may also want to add surge protection to avoid that lightning falling on or near your car fries all your home electronics.
You also need to ensure that your inverter output is very good, it's already a struggle for solar inverters that are purposely made units, the installation of voltage and frequency monitoring relay is mandatory for grid inverters. The day your V2L fries one or several of your appliances, you're going to wish you had checkd that beforehand.

I also wonder how your V2L inverter is going to handle switching on and off major loads, inverters are typically quite sluggish and not that good at instantaneous precision control. With solar inverters, it is often recommended to use a 300mA main RCD rather than a 30mA RCD to avoids constant tripping, and then use 30mA RCD's for wet zones in the house.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a 30mA RCD trip every time major loads are switched off as residual current coming from the V2L looks for an exit path.

If you have solar I would think well before messing around with using V2L as V2H, it adds another layer of complexity on how the two systems interact.

If V2H is your main purpose for buying an EV, buy an EV and charger purpose-made for the use rather than trying this kind of gimmicks and end up hurting someone or burning the house.

I don't think it's a good idea to earth the car. What do you mean by "major loads"? Do you mean machines with motor? Those should not be used with the V2L, at least not large ones.

 

It seems the possibility of getting a V2L connection to the house wrong is very great. I was thinking of getting an extension lead long enough to get from my detached garage to house for V2L but not now. Last winter storms cut electric for 3 days & 2 days. I can manage with LED battery lights & radio plus open fire. I can take my kettle out to the garage to plug into the EV6 & maybe get a cheap emergency microwave for same.

 

You can get really goof USB battery packs and lights these days. Buy 2x 10,000mAh or bigger (one for in use another on charge) and you’ll be fine. Camping stove is best solution for hot drinks/cooking.

 

Whatever setup you have its a bad idea to run your washing machine overnight unattended. Think floods or even fire.
During the 5 days of power outage last winter mobile phones were down, no signal, the masts need power & if they have battery backup it ran out.

 

A number of contributors to this thread have suggested that if you wish to use V2L during a power cut at home then using Class 2 double insulated appliances is safest way to go. Does anyone actually know of examples of Class 2 electric kettles or toasters available on the UK market. My Google search was unsuccessful.

 

I think that those must have a PE because of all the metal, but for emergency I'd try to find one which can be used in cars for camping. You can always use your car battery or even a separate car battery dedicated for that, or a battery from a power tool. It will be smaller and slower but works. Other solution is a small gas stove which can be used for cooking, not only water, but also food. Toast may not be that easy to make, but fully possible even on those. Look at it from the bright side... you can make bacon and eggs and eat the bread without toasting. Much better than toast but no bacon and no eggs.

 

I must admit that I’m a bit concerned with this. I would have expected a sophisticated, modern piece of kit as an EV6 to be able to control the V2L export of electricity in a way that protected its own systems, in a self preservation manner. I have seen videos of cars suspending export when too much energy is being drawn from the vehicle. Most electrical systems, including every home, has systems designed to cut the connection if over current situations arise in a way that preserves the integrity of the system.

 

It isn't the car's fault. It is the shonky TN-C-S earthing system we have in the UK that means that the only thing keeping you alive in the event of a PEN-fault is the equipotential zone of your house.

The problem with all this is that electricity is a LOT more complicated in practice than many people imagine. And that you are kept alive by a very specific set of rules being obeyed. Doing something unusual (eg bringing an extension lead into your home from a V2L BEV, or using power outside to charge a BEV) undermines that which many people do not understand but is essential to keeping you alive.

 

How do you stop your earthing cable melting if there is a fault on the supplier’s TN earth in such a system?

 

This has been the reasoning for not allowing people to connect their own earth rod to the supplier’s earth: in the event of a fault, suddenly your earth rod becomes the return path for your entire neighbourhood.

However in reality the rod will have an impedance in the tens of ohms at best and we use 10mm² or 16mm² cable to bond earth rods these days so it isn’t a problem.