495km (307mi) of “mixed riding” range (is that WLTP? or something else they’ve made up?) or 660km (410mi) of “city” range.

$25k is a bit punchy though, isn’t it? You can get a decent car for that and stay dry!

Only $10k for the Urban S with 10kWh and 250km city range, so I guess price is roughly proportional to battery size/range, weight, and performance.

 

You can get a decent car for that and stay dry!

You could say that for most motorcycles.

 

Darn it now I want one ! Just don't drop it you'll never get it upright (no pun intended) my VFR is heavy enough.

 

You should try my ZZR1100, last time it laid down it took three of us (admittedly I was crying) to pick it up.

But I've been looking at the e-bikes for ages and it's a shame the batteries still cannot give any decent range. Like @donald I'm in the razor sharp brigade.

I just hope they solve the problem without all bikes becoming this style !

 

You should try my ZZR1100, last time it laid down it took three of us (admittedly I was crying) to pick it up.

But I've been looking at the e-bikes for ages and it's a shame the batteries still cannot give any decent range. Like @donald I'm in the razor sharp brigade.

I just hope they solve the problem without all bikes becoming this style !

I dropped my FJ1200 off its stand once, some decades ago, that's about the same weight as ZZR1100, and I did not like the effort of lifting it back up. 250kg about the limit. I was younger and technique goes a long way to improvise strength. I have lost youth since then and probably the skills too.

CoG is also important, I expect up to 300kg for a BEbike is manageable with technique. Custom bikes tend to ground out with limited lean angles, so they often just fall over 'slightly' than topple flat sideways. Not sure, never dropped either.

 

My brother had an FJ1200 air cooled and it did seem like a lower CoG than the ZZR. But then he dropped his Z1000 before that and we nearly needed a forklift !

 

It's available at 30kWh and 400 miles range, and 120bhp.

!!!!!! Holee.... that's some stats - assume 30kWh pack will be 120-150kg by itself?

What's your thoughts on chain rather than shaft drive for that sort of torque - not a biker but would have thought a shaft drive would suit long distance stuff better?

 

Shaft drive do suit big bikes and cruisers better, but chains will do the job OK. I think the issue/compromise here is 'reduction ratio'.

I can see a larger sprocket which reduces the chain tension but increases the chain speed. It's best to minimise chain speed, for noise and sprocket wear rates, but obviously it needs to be what it needs to be if chain is the chosen solution. As you say, that is the point at which you can consider a shaft drive.

With the torque output and sprocket size you can work out the chain speed and tension. From the angle of the chain to the front sprocket, looks to me like they are using the final drive as an opportunity for a significant gear reduction, small but very fast front sprocket, and therefore taking a reduction gear out of the 'engine', saving size and weight.

I think it is for that reason we are seeing a lot of belt-drive electric bikes, because the final drive is being used as the main reduction ratio, but that means fast speeds, so belts are better than chains. But bigger torque means belts might not suit ..... basically this is the task of 'engineering', to deduce the best optimisation.

if you used a shaft drive and had a high ratio in the rear hub, you'd end up with a big lump of metal on the end of the swingarm which would then have knock on consequences for unsprung mass, handling, suspension considerations, etc, etc..

To implement a shaft drive I would imagine need extra gears in the drive unit.

Let's say there are different solutions and it makes life 'interesting'.

I think a chain as I see it there would be running fast and probably a bit noisy, but it'd be no problem on tension capacity.

 

Direct drive motor mounted in swing arm ? Depends on size and weight I guess - Hub drive on both wheels the first all wheel drive motorcycle ?

 

Yes, that is another option, but limits the power of the motor being small.

Direct drive motors are non-trivial. Axial flux motors have poor cogging torque issues at low speed, etc, etc.

You solve one problem and create another, like balancing plates.

There are an assortment of reliability and cooling issues putting a motor on an unsprung part, the vibration and thermal stresses have to be managed. Difficult. All are engineering decisions to balance out.

 

No not the first AWD bike. I seem to remember one from years ago. I seem to think that Yamaha made one ? And there was a prototype from a small outfut which was electric !!??

 

Livewire seems to be the best option out there at the moment, mainly because it’s sensibly priced, and supports CCS…. Zero and their stupid 100v system (because they use an off-the-shelf controller, Kelly possibly iirc) means they’re stuck without any sensible rapid charging, that’s pretty much useless.

Energica are nice, but top money.